n-Track 3.2 & Delta 1010LT Issues

S

Skibble

New member
Hello all!

I just joined this BBS and I should have a long time ago! Great information and a great bunch of people from what I can see so far!

I just picked up a Delta 1010LT card and am running it with n-Track 3.2 (24-bit version).
Through a regular card, I have never had any issues with n-Track and am quite proficient with it (I've used it for years to record 2 tracks at a time).
I am running a Dell P-III 800mhz with Windows 2000 professional.

But the Delta 1010LT card is confusing me. Let me start with a basic question that may be the issue.
I want to mic a drum set...so I took my XLR cables and convereted the ends to RCA males so that the Delta card can accept the inputs. I know nothing about blaanced and unbalanced cables, so I proceeded to wire them as follows:

-RED to center pin on the RCA jack
-GROUND and OTHER to ground on the RCA jack.

This (I believe) is an UNBALANCED cable...right?
I know the book tells me that this is not recomended, but should it work?
Should I wire the XLR to RCA cables in a different fashion?

My signals are all registering through the n-Track mixer...but when I record, I get the following:

-The signal is really distorted.
-The signal seems to be recording at a weird sample rate (and plays back slower tempo-wise).
-The PEAK file does not play in sync with the audio that is playing back.

I have tried to tinker with the bit rate (16, 24, 24 justified, etc.) but no sucess. Sometimes it even crashes the system.
I have played with the mixer levels, but it doesn't help. The signal is lower, but it still distorts. I've tried the -10db setting, consmer, etc. but the same thing happens.
Sometimes, the PEAK file in n-Track shows a cleaner signal (not peaking like crazy) but when I launch the track externally in Cool Edit, the WAV peeks (fills the screen to max db) and sounds like white noise.

I am using my generic system sound card (Dell onboard) for playback. Is this wrong?

In essence, I want to use microphones through this card...no LINE INPUT equipment at all. Please help if you can. I don't know what to do.


Any help wouuld be more than appreciated! Thanks again.
 
You can't plug a mic into a "line" input you must have a preamp or mixer. Disable the onboard soundcard and play back through the 1010lt.
 
Ocnor,

Thanks for the information. I kind of figured that...but not knowing requires testing (and quesiton asking!!!). I have a Yamaha 12/4 mixer (an older one from 2 years ago). I don't think there are outputs for each channel on it (at least I don't think there are). Are there separate outputs for each channel?

Should I rewire the connectors back to XLRs (for the mixer ins) BALANCED or UNBALANCED? They are currently UNBALANCED, right?

Thanks again for the quick reply! I apprecite it!
 
Use balanced cables from the mic to the mixer. Use unbalanced cables from the mixer to the soundcard. You can use the channel inserts to send a line level signal to the soundcard. You can also use the FX sends from the mixer to the soundcard.
 
Ocnor (and everybody else),

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your reply greatly. Your advice worked so far! Here are my current problems:

-I tested 2 MICs on 2 inputs
-I have my MICs (using balanced cables) going into my Yamaha MX12/4 mixer.
-I have the outputs leaving the mixer (from the LINE 1/4" ports right under the XLR INS) to the sound card.
(Question 1) I do get a signal into the computer, but my Yamaha mixer manual states that the LINE 1/4" ports are actually INPUTS and not OUTPUTS. If so, why is a signal going to the sound card? You said that it would work, but why would Yamaha not mention this important information about their mixer?


-I have my sampling rate set at 24-bit unpacked for my recording settings in the Delta mixer. This one seems to be the best setting but it seems to peak too much. My seperate sliders and the VU meter setttings are set super low. I am getting a lot of hiss and even when the input is set super low, it tends to 'pop' on a sharp hit to the drum. When I change my setting to 16-bit or 24-bit regular, there is a flat line on my recording or a very low input (even though I jump up the Delta mixer levels.
(Question 2) Can I not set the Delta 1010LT card to record at 16-bit in lieu of 24-bit? I would actually prefer it as it would create smaller WAV files and would not bog down my system too much. Why would it blank out (flatline) the WAV input in 16-bit? Am I not simply changing the sampling bit rate? What does this have to do with the input level?


-In 24-bit and tweaking the input levels in the Delta mixer, I can squeak out a half decent track...BUT...there is a ton of hiss on the recording.
(Question 3) Can I get rid of this hiss?


-When I adjust the channel slides on the Yamaha mixer, or the group slides or the master output slides, it changes nothing regarding the input of the signal.
(Question 4) Why? I see the levels on my Yamaha VU meter, but the adjustments do nothing. Also, what it the best setting for a regular AKG D72S microphone running through a balanced cable? I have never understood the MIC GAIN on mixers (and this may have lead to me frying 2 channels on it a few months back. It runs from -60 (pan left) to -34 (pan right). Is this too broad a question?


Please let me know if I am doing something, many things or all things like a dumbass. :confused:
 
Ocnor,

By the way...the Dell onboard sound card has been disabled and the outpus are excellent going to my speakers...even for my Winamp output. Thanks!
 
Your Yamaha MG mixer does not have direct outs on it. You need a mixer that does so you can plug in mic signals and get line level signals out (because your 1010 only has two mic inputs). You're probably coming out of the insert jacks on your yamaha which would explain why you would get signal into your comp, but not the correct signal. The Delta1010LT has two microphone inputs (XLR) and 6 line inputs (RCA). You can do it two ways. You can plug your first two drum mics directly into the first two inputs of your 1010LT and plug the remainding drum mics into your mixer. You will need to convert the direct outs on your mixer down to RCA to get into the remainding 6 channels of input on your soundcard. The other way to do it is how I have mine set up, and is less confusing.....

The Delta 1010 has jumper settings on the card itself that turns those first two XLR inputs to line level inputs as opposed to mic level (with built in preamp)....do that (it's in the manual how to do it). Then, run all your input signals into your mixer then run direct outs into your card. Obviously, the first two will have to be converted from 1/4 out of your board to XLR into your soundcard, but the soundcard will be set for line level inputs, so that should do it. The remaining six channels will typically be 1/4 from the direct outputs to RCA into your card.

The reason your faders will not affect what goes to the card is because they are direct outputs. You are "tapping" the signal generally right after the mic pre on the board. It differs on some boards though. Some direct outs will be tapped behind the eq...be aware of what on the board effects those direct outs. As far as adjusting the pre's on the board, you want as much signal as you can get before it starts clipping. If it's not maxxed out, don't worry, you can always bring it back up with no loss in the software domain.

Summary...you need an eight channel mixer with direct outputs. Convert the first two XLR inputs of your card to line level inputs. The rest is all physical connections.
 
The line 1/4 inputs are wired parallel to the XLR inputs which is why you can use it as an Output but you will have no preamp this way . If you run the INSERT out to the soundcard then the GAIN control becomes the volume control for that channel because it taps directly after the gain which bypasses all of the other controls on the channel. The INSERT uses a TRS [tip,ring ,sleeve] jack. This means that half is an input and half is an output. You can buy an Insert cable which splits into two 1/4 [input/output]. Or you can use a TS [tip/sleeve] cable and plug it in half way.
 
Ocnor,

O.K. So far I am getting it. I will use the Mixer's LOOP (wired for the send only, obviously) 1/4" jacks to go to the Delta 1010LT sound card instead of the LINE INPUTS (OUTPUTS) I currently tried. I will make up some 1/4" cables for this tonight.

I understand the concept of the cable from the mixer manual and now the LINE INPUT/OUTPUT section because of your help! You should write instruction manuals for Yamaha!!!

A question regarding PHANTOM POWER on the mixer. Would I ever need to use this setting with my current AKG D72S (cheapie) microphones?

Please let me know when you have a chance...AND THANKS MUCH FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP thusfar!!!
 
You do not need Phantom Power unless you are using a condenser mic. You have a Dynamic mic so no Phantom Power is required.
 
Ocnor,

The inputs work very well through my Yamaha mixer! Your help has been bang on and I want to thank you for it. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I have it set to record from 8 inputs...6 RCAs and the 2 XLRs.
I am recording through n-Track 3.2 (24-bit version).
The levels seem to be better (level-wise) at the 16-bit recording setting.
(Question 1) Do you know why? I am not complaining, but I am a little confused as to why the bitrate would drop or raise the input signal.

The PC is a Dell PIII-833mhz. when I jump from 16-bit to 24-bit to 24-bit justified, it seems to freak the system out. Sometimes it even reboots. I get errors like crazy and it seems to reset my Winamp and prevents me from playing MP3s. When I try to run Winamp, the MP3 freezes at 0:00. Then, when I launch n-Track and load a SNG file into it...and then play it, Winamp kicks in out of nowhere!!!
(Question 2) Have you ever heard of this? Is it a driver issue? I am using the xx.xx.xx.29 version of the Delta driver. Should I install the older one? I read something about issues with the newer driver.

As-is, the system runs well with the exception of it halting recording at varying positions in the song. For example, if I record a 4 minute song, chances are that n-Track will END the WAV file capture at 1:30:00 (1 1/2 minutes) or so and not record the rest...even though the RECORDING light is still flashing before I stop the recording at the 4 minute mark.
(Question 3) Is this a buffering problem? Is it a PC CPU speed problem? Would putting a D: drive (extra dedicated hard drive used only for recording the WAVes) into the system help it out? Is it RAM? I only have 128 MEGS in it FYI.

When I launch one of the n-Track 16-bit WAV files I captured into my external editor (Cool Edit...(gasp)...96!), it says I have a compatibility problem and that 'my sound card cannot process this sample rate'...even though it is 16-bit 44.1 recording.
(Question 4) Is this because I am not LOCKING my sample rate in the Delta control panel/mixer? Or is it because I enjoy running software fit for a museum? I dunno...I just like Cool Edit 96...simple and quick to load. Should I move up to Sound Forge 5.0?

That's all for now. Please send me your tech support bill when you have a chance! Thanks again Ocnor! I sincerely appreciate it!
 
My guess would be that your computer is just too slow to process 24 bit files. It may also be the way that you have windows configured eats up your resources. 128meg of ram is going to limit what you can do. If you can upgrade to 256 or 512 you will notice a big difference in performance.
I also love the ease of use with Cool Edit. I upgraded to Adobe Audition 1.5 and I use it for tracking as well as editing. It is far more stable that the old versions of Cool Edit and the plugins are much better.
You might want to try turning off the windows background crap to get the most out of your current system. This site will tell you what you can turn off without messing anything up.
http://www.blackviper.com/WIN2K/servicecfg.htm
 
Ocnor,

The RAM is now up to 512 MEGs. It fixed the problems! Thanks a lot.

TO RECAP...
I am running a Dell PIII-800 (Windows 2000 Pro) with the Delta 1010LT card.

I can record 8 tracks simultaneously and it only uses up 45% of the n-track's CPU (according to the n-track display).

When I add f/x to 4 of the tracks, it uses 55% of the memory. Not too shabby! Plus the V/U meters are quite 'live' in their refreshing! GOod response.

Thanks again for all of your help Ocnor. I appreciate it!
 
I'm glad everything worked out for you. Now don't just sit here reading this go and record some killer tunes!
 
Thanks ocnor...

Thanks man!

I'm new to this forum, but we had an yamaha 235xX something like that and we where dealing with same problem.... how to get directs in and out to our yamaha moxer to delta 1010lt. We don't have the card already but it would help us a lot!

Thanks!
 
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