MOTU 896HD questions about settings, latency and firewire

U

umair

New member
Hello. I have been out of the recording game for a while now and I tried searching for some specifics and couldn't really find anything. I ended up picking up a MOTU 896HD with a Behringer ADA8000. I previously used two RME ADI-8 and the old 9652 ADAT card. The card no longer works in Windows 7 so I thought I would "upgrade" my setup to the Motu because its capable of 96Khz and comes with what seem to be decent preamps. I originally thought I was going to get a simple setup if any but started playing a little bit again. Now I am seriously regretting selling my stuff.

I have not decided on my DAW software and I'm trying out whatever free trials I can get. I've historically used Nuendo but that was a while ago. I've been recommended Ableton but it looks completely alien to me right now so I downloaded the cakewalk trial. I do 16 simultaneously recorded tracks normally with a full band.

So I setup my Motu with the latest drivers and I get all kinds of latency. Its started at 100ms and after playing with the settings I got it down to 11ms and under. I'm not sure what typical latency but the RME stuff was pretty much zero latency. I've gotten my latency down to 8ms but with only 8 channels. My RME would run 16 in and out with zero latency and effects! I'm having a terrible time with setting up monitors for the players and feel like its severly impacting performance. Expecially when we try to play to the metronome. I find it hard to believe that my 10 year old computer outperforms my current brand new one with newer equipment.

1.) Is the Latency dependant on the Firewire card (I am using my computer's built in firewire card). I had bought a card to install just to realize that my computer doesn't use PCIe slots anymore. I'm so out of touch. The new slots are much smaller so I got the wrong card. I heard SIG is a good one to buy but now I have to return/sell it. But my initial reaction makes me think that an ADAT card outperforms a firewire setup. Or maybe I'm doing something wrong.

2.) My computer is pretty beefy with an I7 processor and 8 gigs of RAM with Windows 7 64 bit. Are there specific settings that need to be tweaked? I know XP had a lot of tweaks back in the day that would optimize it for latency. There are no background services being run or anything.

3.) I tried out Ableton and got 8-9 sec latency and honestly I have no idea how to use that software. I also downloaded the 30 day trial of Sonar and I like it. I got the latency down to 4 seconds but again I got some clicks and pops. I am looking for a trial version of Cubase but I don't know if Steinberg even makes one. Does the DAW software severly impact latency?

4.) I think the Motu is a fine piece and I have heard it in other applications. I haven't tried the behringer yet (was a package deal). However the Motu doesn't sound like the RME. I can't put my finger on it. I was also only recording at 16 bit depth at 44.1khz. Perhaps I need to change some settings around. Or perhaps its the DAW.... or more likely.. perhaps it was the players just being off because we definitely were having trouble. I hope I didn't make a mistake with the Motu. It's so hard to audition stuff like this. I've heard the Motu in a friends studio and it sounded great but he was mostly doing Midi stuff and didn't record a lot of live instruments like I do. I guess this question is more about what are the proper settings for a computer like mine. The buffers, sampling rates, and all the other things you can change.

5.) Will adding the 8 ADAT in/out really change my latency and make it worse?

6.) If I use the Cuemix direct monitoring, how does that work for overdubs? Won't I have a problem playing to the latency of previously recording tracks?

7.) If I decide to get rid of the Motu, what would be the next step up from here? There are dozens of interfaces nowadays. Seems everyone makes one, presonus, focusrite. Then you have the desks: Yamaha 02r96 and Tascams, Allen & Heath etc. I kind of wanted a simpler setup so hopefully with some help I can get some good results from the Motu. Incidently, the direct input of a bass guitar into the Motu sounded excellent. And so did one of the fake drums from Cakewalk or Ableton.
 
I have the original MOTU 896 and it's wonderful!!!! Oh and the 896 HD can actually record at 192Khz. Your computer is very powerful. You shouldn't have to do any tweaks. Have you tried Cuemix monitoring yet? I use direct monitoring in my software (Cubase) If your latency is low, it shouldn't make a difference playing to previously recorded tracks.

And jeez you wrote a whole novel! haha
 
1.) Is the Latency dependant on the Firewire card (I am using my computer's built in firewire card). I had bought a card to install just to realize that my computer doesn't use PCIe slots anymore. I'm so out of touch. The new slots are much smaller so I got the wrong card. I heard SIG is a good one to buy but now I have to return/sell it. But my initial reaction makes me think that an ADAT card outperforms a firewire setup. Or maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Latency can partly be the Firewire, but nothing you'd really notice until you got a LOT of tracks. Presonus use firewire and can get up to 52 channels.
All desktop computers that I know of still use PCIe. Original PCI has been phased out, yes, but not PCIe. Even the new Thunderbolt port uses PCIe technology.

2.) My computer is pretty beefy with an I7 processor and 8 gigs of RAM with Windows 7 64 bit. Are there specific settings that need to be tweaked? I know XP had a lot of tweaks back in the day that would optimize it for latency. There are no background services being run or anything.

Usually, your latency will be most effected by your interface settings. Sample sizes, bit depth, CPU cores and speeds of each core, RAM... Can be down to a lot. I think your CPU and RAM aren't going to give you an problems though!

3.) I tried out Ableton and got 8-9 sec latency and honestly I have no idea how to use that software. I also downloaded the 30 day trial of Sonar and I like it. I got the latency down to 4 seconds but again I got some clicks and pops. I am looking for a trial version of Cubase but I don't know if Steinberg even makes one. Does the DAW software severly impact latency?

8-9 seconds it perfectly acceptable. You're not even going to notice something so little. Your DAW should not severely impact latency, no.

4.) I think the Motu is a fine piece and I have heard it in other applications. I haven't tried the behringer yet (was a package deal). However the Motu doesn't sound like the RME. I can't put my finger on it. I was also only recording at 16 bit depth at 44.1khz. Perhaps I need to change some settings around. Or perhaps its the DAW.... or more likely.. perhaps it was the players just being off because we definitely were having trouble. I hope I didn't make a mistake with the Motu. It's so hard to audition stuff like this. I've heard the Motu in a friends studio and it sounded great but he was mostly doing Midi stuff and didn't record a lot of live instruments like I do. I guess this question is more about what are the proper settings for a computer like mine. The buffers, sampling rates, and all the other things you can change.

Play around with everything and figure out what makes it work best.

5.) Will adding the 8 ADAT in/out really change my latency and make it worse?

It will change and make your latency worse if you use it, yes. But I still doubt it will be significant.

6.) If I use the Cuemix direct monitoring, how does that work for overdubs? Won't I have a problem playing to the latency of previously recording tracks?

Again, the latency isn't going to be all that much.

7.) If I decide to get rid of the Motu, what would be the next step up from here? There are dozens of interfaces nowadays. Seems everyone makes one, presonus, focusrite. Then you have the desks: Yamaha 02r96 and Tascams, Allen & Heath etc. I kind of wanted a simpler setup so hopefully with some help I can get some good results from the Motu. Incidently, the direct input of a bass guitar into the Motu sounded excellent. And so did one of the fake drums from Cakewalk or Ableton.

Steps up would be to add more mics and VSTs or outboard gear. A good control surface if you don't have one. Better monitors and soundproofing. Perhaps even building a place strictly as a studio. There's a lot you can do to upgrade and I'm sure you'll constantly find yourself doing that. [you've already just upgraded your computer!]
 
Thanks for the responses. I think I'm getting my buffers straight and it starting to sound better. The FireWire card I got shipped to me was actually incorrect so that explains that problem.
I'm still not sure if the latency of 10ms or so is accurate. It seems more than that. When I play a palm muted guitar with little accents in time with the drums I really get thrown off. Who knows, maybe it's just my playing.
I'll keep playing around but I do miss my RME stuff. Are the focusrite octopre's an upgrade over motu? I think the preamps are decent in the unit. I really like the straight in bass sound I got from them. Still have to play around with vocals.

As far as upgrading. I have a control surface (akai mpc 40) but am looking into the behringer bcf2000. I love my nht pro monitors. I have some sound treatments that need to be installed and the room is sound proofed from the rest of the house since it doubles as a home theater/music room. My mics are in need of some upgrading because it seems as though some of them have walked away somehow over the years.
 
If you want zero latency (or hear no latency) you can do a few things.

1. Buy an analog board. This will ensure absolutely no latency.

2. Use direct monitoring within your software or hardware. Although, I find it strange your even asking this question. I know the original 896 has direct monitoring and that cannot be changed. I guess it must be different with the HD. See if direct monitoring can be enabled in the 896 HD's control panel.

And you should do LOTS of research before acoustically treating your room.
 
There's two different things here. Latency refers to the round trip delay. It should be single-digit or low double-digit milliseconds (not seconds—yikes!), and the only time it really should matter significantly is if you have bleed from your headphones getting picked up by the mic. A 10 millisecond delay in hearing the sound you make is short enough that you basically can't perceive it (except as phase distortion). At a ridiculously fast 180 beats per minute, that's still a delay of only a thirtieth of a beat. It's the amount of time that it takes sound to travel 11 feet through the air. It's just not significant.

What I suspect you're experiencing is not latency, but rather an offset caused by your DAW not computing the latency correctly. As a result, when you play back a recording, the track is shifted over a little bit, and this compounds itself as you layer additional tracks. Most DAWs have some way to adjust for this.
 
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