Mic Pre / Interface

C

Crazyd943

New member
Hey guys and gals!

I've been 'producing' (or learning to do so) for about the past 2/3 years, but am only just getting a home setup sorted, as I've had far too much access to the college studio (some of the first-years were convinced I worked there, and who was I to correct them? haha) and far too little cash. But now I'm out of college, and into work, so I've no excuse now!

I've a lot of gear still on the list, but I'm looking at a mic pre, and audio interface.

I'm ideally looking particularly for separate units, as I like to keep things modular and easily replaced or switched about. I'm in the process of building a desk (I'm at that all-important, 'where the f*ck will this go, what can I shift?' stage.) so will have plenty of rack space.

I'll mostly only be recording vocals and micing a guitar/bass cab, but unlikely at the same time.

So really, I'm likely looking for a rack mic pre, and either a rack USB interface, or a desktop interface/DAW control, the latter of which would be ideal, as I much prefer the feel of a knob betw- ...and I can hear the jokes as I type!

Anyway, I'm still pretty new to the whole setup process. I know what I want to happen, but not exactly what I need, so all possibilities and options besides the above appreciated!

Thanks for reading the wall of text,

Lou. :cool:

Also, not sure if this double-posted.

EDIT: Knew I'd forget something after that lot.

Working on hip-hop and pop mostly, but as above, many styles and such to be considered.

My budget would probably stretch to £250/300, willing to go second-hand for quality gear.

Cheers!
 
You asked many questions, but I'll offer only two suggestions and let others address the rest:

There is no advantage to having preamps separate from the interface. There are many good combination products out there, but I can tell you I've been thrilled with my Focusrite Scarlett. If you need more than four ins and four outs, there are other models in the series that are equally good values. This advice alone will likely save you a thousand dollars or more.

My other advice is to avoid a large massive desk and outboard racks. You're using DAW software, yes? The ideal desk for a computer DAW is open frame and made from pipes etc. A regular desk is good too, but it should be as small as practical to avoid impacting your acoustics.

--Ethan
 
Hi Ethan,

Thanks for your reply. Definitely things to consider, as like I said, all inputs and ideas are hugely appreciated!

I certainly won't need more than about 4 any time soon, and I'm looking into the Focusrite and similar as we speak.

Should I however decide at some point in the future need to track drums, for example, could a mic pre with more inputs be fed through one of these small interfaces? Would there be a way of tracking say 8 tracks through an 8 track pre, and a 4/4 interface, on separate tracks?

What I'm saying is, can the number of ins on the interface effectively be increased?

What if I should want to use a different pre at some point, for a single track. Can this be put through such an interface, bypassing the built-in pre?


Sorry for the barrage of likely very simple questions, all help is very much appreciated!

Thank you,

Lou.
 
You could pre-mix more than four drum mics down to four channels for recording, but that's not recommended because you can't change the balance later. However, you might be able to buy a second identical sound card and use both at once. This is a good question for the store you buy from. If you can afford a sound card with more than four inputs now, and you're pretty sure you'll need more inputs eventually, that's probably your best choice.

--Ethan
 
Ethan, I must say, every time I read your name, I always see it as Ethan Wiener! I have to read twice. :D

There is no advantage to having preamps separate from the interface.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say that really. I've noticed a HUGE difference between a cheap entry level outboard pre (ART MPA II), and the stock pre's on my MOTU 896. Plus, there are so many extra controls on the pre. Low cut filter, pad, can be used as a DI. Sometime soon I'll make a post comparing the two.
 
Ethan Winer said:
You could pre-mix more than four drum mics down to four channels for recording, but that's not recommended because you can't change the balance later. However, you might be able to buy a second identical sound card and use both at once. This is a good question for the store you buy from. If you can afford a sound card with more than four inputs now, and you're pretty sure you'll need more inputs eventually, that's probably your best choice.

--Ethan
Click to expand...

Yeah, that seems pretty obvious now haha. Thanks.

CrowsofFritz said:
I wouldn't say that really. I've noticed a HUGE difference between a cheap entry level outboard pre (ART MPA II), and the stock pre's on my MOTU 896. Plus, there are so many extra controls on the pre. Low cut filter, pad, can be used as a DI. Sometime soon I'll make a post comparing the two.
Click to expand...

I take it you mean a positive difference with the ART?
 
CrowsofFritz said:
I've noticed a HUGE difference between a cheap entry level outboard pre (ART MPA II), and the stock pre's on my MOTU 896.
Click to expand...

I imagine if you did a controlled test you'd find the difference far smaller. Then again, some of the ART stuff uses tubes to add intentional coloration, especially if you overdrive them. So that could account for a difference. Often when people report "huge" differences in non-controlled tests, then compare again in a more scientific manner, those differences all but disappear. But I don't have either of those devices, so I can't say for sure if that's the case with your ART and MOTU. Too bad you live so far from me because I'd love to visit you and compare them for myself.

That said, I've recorded a bunch of stuff with my Focusrite Sapphire, and tested its frequency response and distortion, and the preamps are extremely clean.

--Ethan
 
Hi Ethan,

This is my first post, and allow me to say that you have been a great influence on me. Reading your advice in all these forums has been both enjoyable and enlightening.

Thanks for your input. I too have been wondering whether "upgrading" the preamps would do anything to help my recordings, but have yet to find any conclusive proof of any benefit, other than anecdotal user reports of hearing huge improvements. Are you saying that any properly-made preamp should do the job as well as a designer brand preamp that costs much more, as far as the normal human ear can hear?

Are there anything else, other than frequency response and noise, that we should consider in preamp selection?
 
Ethan Winer said:
I imagine if you did a controlled test you'd find the difference far smaller. Then again, some of the ART stuff uses tubes to add intentional coloration, especially if you overdrive them. So that could account for a difference. Often when people report "huge" differences in non-controlled tests, then compare again in a more scientific manner, those differences all but disappear. But I don't have either of those devices, so I can't say for sure if that's the case with your ART and MOTU. Too bad you live so far from me because I'd love to visit you and compare them for myself.

That said, I've recorded a bunch of stuff with my Focusrite Sapphire, and tested its frequency response and distortion, and the preamps are extremely clean.

--Ethan
Click to expand...

It could very well be my MOTU. But I noticed a difference from Presonus preamps as well. I'll do a short test, and post a clip on this thread. Maybe start a new one.
 
godchuanz said:
Are you saying that any properly-made preamp should do the job as well as a designer brand preamp that costs much more, as far as the normal human ear can hear?
Click to expand...

Yes, exactly. And not just what ears can hear, but also what test equipment can measure which is even better than ears. Forty years ago high quality audio gear really did cost a lot. But these days with op-amps and no need for transformers and Asian manufacturing, very high quality gear is a commodity. Of course, reliability and other factors can justify a higher price. But you don't have to spend a thousand dollars per channel or anything even close to that for good quality gear. Not having high-end gear is never the reason a newbie's productions suck. :D

Are there anything else, other than frequency response and noise, that we should consider in preamp selection?
Click to expand...

The only things that affect audio fidelity are frequency response, distortion, and noise. Recording mediums also have wow and flutter and jitter. Audio fidelity is defined in depth in my Audiophoolery article, and in even more detail in my new book The Audio Expert.

--Ethan
 
CrowsofFritz said:
It could very well be my MOTU. But I noticed a difference from Presonus preamps as well. I'll do a short test, and post a clip on this thread. Maybe start a new one.
Click to expand...

Yes, definitely do that. But understand there are some important pitfalls when trying to fairly compare mic preamps. You need to capture the same performance using the same microphone and placement. The best way to do this is with re-amping. Play music through the best speaker you own, and put a good omni microphone a foot away centered on the tweeter. Then you can play the same music through the same mic, which is in the same position for both recordings. And be sure to match the record volumes as closely as possible. I'll be interested to hear your results!

--Ethan
 
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