Mic into laptop help

F

flomman

New member
Hi,

I purchased some recording hardware some time ago, and had some trouble. I lost confidence and put it all aside, but am now attacking it again. I am trying to record audiobooks, and I want to end up with something fairly high in quality. My equipment is as follows:

Heil pr40 mic,
Mackie ProFX8 USB mixer,
dbx 166xs compressor/limiter/gate (just purchased),
64 bit Windows 7 laptop,
Reaper.

The last time I tried doing any serious recording, I failed because I couldn't get rid of a persistent hissing. Also, the signal from the mic was so weak that the volume slider and the gain had to be turned to the max to get a semi-healthy looking wave form in the DAW. This only increased the hiss. I found out from Mackie about needing to turn the microphone recording level down in the sound properties. This did help the hiss (without fixing it entirely) but reduced the wave form even lower in the DAW. I couldn't find other information, so I gave up. A year or so later now, and I am getting back into it. I have found online many people complaining about the Mackie mixer, and I realise that I have to replace it. With this as background, here is my question:

What hardware should I get? I don't know enough about this kind of thing to find out myself. I need to be able to get the Heil pr40 into the computer, and I need to be able to process the signal through the dbx 166xs. What would be the best way to do this? I don't want hissing, and other added sound. If this means that I need to dump the laptop and use some other kind of recording device, so be it. I just don't know myself what to get, and so am turning here for advice.

Thanks in advance for your help!
 
Flo,
There are many variables in your set up that may be causing the hiss. I cannot make suggestions without more info on your gear, levels, room design/treatment, and how you have it connected. However IMHO, you have more outboard gear than you need for audiobook recording. Every additional piece of gear that you add between the mic and the DAW is an additional opportunity to add noise. The ideal KISS-method would be Mic>>AI>>DAW.

I record audiobooks, e-learning, how-tos, etc., and do all of my processing and mastering in Reaper, thus eliminating the need for any outboard processing (i.e. DBX 166 and mixer).

In all honesty, you could sell the Mackie and DBX, purchase a small single or 2-channel, audio interface like a Focusrite 2i2 or the like, and spend the extra on room treatment.

Interestingly, I looked up the PR-40 since I do not own one. That mic is an end-fired, cardioid Dynamic? Have you been speaking into that mic like a side-addressed (not meant to be a condescending question... just asking.. I have been guilty of talking into the back side of a mic or two in my life)?

Just my $0.02 with a 100% discount.
Dale
 
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The Pro 40 gets a very good write up in Sound on Sound, more a capacitor mic quality than dynamic they say. It is also almost 6dB more sensitive than the usual suspects, SM58 types so any decent AI should give good results/

And yes, leave any processing until the take is "in the can" and do it in software IF indeed it needs doing at all!

That would be my two "Pee" from my 10/20.

Dave.
 
Thank for the replies. For some more information on my setup, here is a photo of the basics. The dbx is not plugged in. When it is, it is via an insert cable into the insert of channel 1. XLR-XLR directly from the Heil to the Mackie. Here's the mixer close up. I did some recording this morning to demonstrate for you what it's like. I recorded with the mixer settings as you see them on the previous photo. I am aware that the Heil is an end-fire mic and am using it appropriately. I set all the faders to 0. I then put the gain to 12 O'clock and, not hearing too much through the headphones (from the Mackie), I cranked the headphone output knob to full. Still didn't hear much, and no there was action at all on the meter of the mixer. So started turning the gain up. Once the gain was at max, I started getting feedback through the headphones, so turned it down until the feedback stopped. This had the gain knob at about 4 O'clock - just short of max. My mouth was about 1.5 inches from the mic, behind a pop-filter. The meter lights hardly come one at all. The -30db light flashes intermittently (it's the first light on the meter), so I'm guessing that the average must be hanging around about -35db point?

When I say that the waveforms in Reaper are small, I mean really small. Except for peaks, they are invisible. Here's a screenshot There is no hiss in this recording, but it is very quiet, so that is probably why. Here's the unprocessed audio shown in the screenshot. If I then normalise the audio, the volume of the voice is great, but the hissing is also audible. Here's the normalised version of the same audio.

There are quite a few people complaining about the hiss of the Mackie USB mixer, and also of its low levels. I feel a little wary of using plugins over hardware. It seems like cheating, and I always imagine that they don't do as good a job; hence the dbx. Is this just my imagination? I'll be annoyed if it is, having just invested in hardware which is totally unnecessary.

Also, just to remind you of what I said earlier, having finally gotten a response from the Mackie support team some years ago now when I contacted them about the hissing, I was told to reduce the level in the microphone properties of Windows from 100 to 3. I did that ( image here ). If the level is at 100, the heil records more-or-less as per the normalised file above, with hissing and all. Reducing the level to 3 does eliminate the hiss, but it eliminates your voice too!:facepalm:

Any more help greatly appreciated. If we can't sort this thing out, then I might have to just get an audio interface as you suggested Dalevo. I have the gear I have though, and if I can, I'd like to just stick with that.
 
flomman said:
I did some recording this morning to demonstrate for you what it's like. I recorded with the mixer settings as you see them on the previous photo.

There is no hiss in this recording, but it is very quiet, so that is probably why. ...but the hissing is also audible.
Click to expand...

I inferred from the context that the audio you posted was only the Mackie, without the 166 in the chain (mic>>Mackie>>DAW). I can hear the hiss when you normalized the audio.

When you plugged the mic into channel two and recorded, did you get the same results?
I couldn't find any drivers required for the ProFX8. But, is Reaper seeing the Mackie, in the Reaper View/Preferences/Audio Devices, as the audio interface?

Regardless of the Reaper settings at the moment, I would think the Mackie LEDs should be showing more signal, with the gain up as high as you have it. There should be more than intermittent -30dB LED lighting with the mic gain at 4 o'clock. I could be wrong. I have the Mackie VLZ Pro instead of the ProFX, and do not own the Heil. But if ecc83 found it is hotter, I would assume better signal.

One of the reasons I record dry and add effects in Reaper is to avoid making a mistake by adding too much compression/Gate/limiting on the outbound signal that is recorded, and finding I just recorded an hour of useless, over processed audio. I can always hit the UnDo key when I add too much effect. Can't UnDo what's already done by outboard gear.
Dale
 
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USB Interfaces are pretty cheap nowadays - consider buying one.
The free plugins available nowadays will give you decent results.
Your mic is great quality - the other pieces are taking away from that quality.

My vocal wavforms in Sonar are miniscule at times, even though the input level on the screen hit about 3/4 of max.
When I mix it down, there's always more than enough volume for the vocal to be heard clearly.
Try adding a compressor to the effects bin and turn up the output gain if you feel you need more volume still.
Your wavform has peaks because the human voice is not consistent in volume - try some parallel compression to get a consistent even level.
 
FWIW, I've got a PR-40 (and 2 other Heil mics that are similar) and I haven't ever had any hiss like the mackie results recording them using a Focusrite interface. I would agree with the suggestion of the AI instead of the mixer.

Another thing that you could try to use to bring up the levels, if the Mackie can't do it without adding a ton of hiss, is a cloudlifter or something similar. You shouldn't need one with the Heil mic but it's an option.
 
+1 for using channel 2. Channel 1 has that pesky mic/line switch.

Also, mic could be bad, cable could be bad, Mackie could be bad. You'll have to swap one at a time with a known working replacement to narrow it down.

Best of luck!
-PC
 
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