Latency! Grrr!!!

Whoopysnorp

Whoopysnorp

New member
It seems that my setup does not allow me to take advantage of the low latencies promised by ASIO. I have an IBM Aptiva that I've been gradually converting into a machine suitable for recording. At the moment it has a 700 Mhz Athlon in an Anigma S30 mobo (AMD Irongate chipset), 352 MB PC100 RAM, 5400 rpm 17 GB HD (apps & OS), 7200 rpm 40 GB HD (audio), DVD-ROM, CD-RW, 200 W power, TNT2 M64 16MB video, SBLive Value, Delta 66, cheap ethernet card, Win98SE. I've done the typical optimizations: the HD is formatted in 32k clusters, I have a separate hardware configuration and user profile for recording that reduces hardware and things running in the background, etc., etc. I can't use any latency below 20ms, which drives me nuts when applying plug-ins. I've heard people claim that they don't have any problem using latencies like this--I suppose if I put effects on everything, so I couldn't hear the delay between the same sound on two channels, I'd be OK. I think the problem may be the weird motherboard/old chipset/100 Mhz bus speed. Any other ideas, or will I just have to grin and bear it?
 
Though I have installed ASIO drivers on my machine, I use the WDM drivers instead because I have Cakewalks Sonar and a Motu 2408mkII.

What software are you using? Cubase, Logic Audio?

I can't help you much with getting latency down for ASIO. I installed them for Logic Audio, but I don't like that software nearly as much as Sonar. I didn't spend enough time getting to know how to use it.

In any case, getting the latency down below a detectible level took me a week to figure out. So it's not easy, unless you know exactly what you have to do. It's figuring out that you need to minimize the number of enabled IO's, setting the IO cards input buffer size to minimum without audio dropout, setting the recording softwares audio buffers to minimum without dropout...all that is what takes time and trial and error.

So what kind of software are you using?

-Nemal
 
I think that you should really be shooting for 50ms or so. Getting it down to 20 or less isn't going to work well after just a few tracks.

I personally think that 50ms is perfectly fine for mixing, in fact I can't really even feel it. It sure beats 1/4 to 1/2 a second!!!

Slackmaster 2000
 
50ms is a little high... i mean i helped a friend of mine out with a sb live and i got it down to 46 with no pops and clicks.but thats still high. i helped set up a staudio c-port yesterday at partners house and we have it set to 6-8ms.
what the lowest a delta 66 can go?

but anything is better than 750ms :)
 
50 vs. 46? :)

A lot of this depends on track count. I'm typically doing 20+ 24bit tracks and at that number, I've found buffers in the 50ms range to be necessary. Of course that's just on my machine. I would be interested in hearing about a PC doing <20ms with >20 24bit tracks.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Slackmaster2K said:
50 vs. 46? :)

A lot of this depends on track count. I'm typically doing 20+ 24bit tracks and at that number, I've found buffers in the 50ms range to be necessary. Of course that's just on my machine. I would be interested in hearing about a PC doing <20ms with >20 24bit tracks.

Slackmaster 2000
Click to expand...

i think we had about 16 tracks at 32bit float/96khz last night. the latency wasn't high at all. but its also may depend on the computer, we have a dual athlonXp
 
Most audio applications convert samples internally to 32bit floats. Some apps like CEP allow you to save in 32bit format because it does save a conversion step, and it sounds cooler.

But what's important is what's actually going to & from the soundcard? Were you using a 16 or 24 bit soundcard?

A dual athlon XP machine could potentially kick ass...I won't feel too bad if you can get better latency times than my sad little Celeron 850 :)

Slackmaster 2000
 
Whoopyboy -

Not sure I exactly understand your problem. There should be no latency on a plug-in except when you initially add it to the track (or make adjustments to it). Once it's up and running you shouldn't be getting any latency.

I don't see where a 20 ms delay should be a problem in assessing changes to your settings. Or am I missing what you're asking?
 
I always forget something! I'm using n-Track. The problem seems to be that n-Track's buffer adjustments no longer work in ASIO--the driver takes them over.

dachay2tnr: That's very interesting. I must be having some different problem. When I use a DX plugin on, say, a snare track, I can hear the crack come in a hair later than the crack on the un-processed overhead tracks. The degree of separation changes as I change the latency. Could there be a way to eliminate this problem that has nothing to do with my ASIO latency settings?

Maybe I'm shooting for too much here--I haven't been working with that many simultaneous tracks--only eight or so, so far. So if you guys typically need around 50 ms for 20 or so tracks, maybe I'm grasping at straws here. On the other hand, the Delta ASIO control panel's highest latency setting is 28 ms. Maybe I need audio software that can give me more control over disk buffers.

By the way, I record at 24/44.1.
 
What is the actual plug-in effect that you are using on the track? If it's a reverb effect, maybe what you are hearing is just the echo. Try playing with the settings such as wet/dry, or room size, or decay time.

I could be wrong, but I don't think your problem is latency. If you were sending it out to hardware effects, maybe, but not on a software plugin. I do editing on a machine with an SB Live with latency set to 100 ms and I've never encountered this problem. Yes, there is a delay in hearing the effect when I first apply it to the track (if I do it while the track is playing), but afterwards, no problems.
 
It almost sounds like you're talking about Live Input Processing? Is that true? If so, there is absolutely no way to get around the delay, which will depend directly on your ASIO buffer settings.

Slackmaster 2000
 
50 ms is 5/100 of a second. Anyone who thinks that is "too slow" for mixing is insane. I would have to be on a crapload of speed to even be able to react to a mix that fast.

Anyway, for recording, in Pro Tools LE, there is a special "low latency monitoring" mode that uses the hardware on the card to provide a summed mix, instead of the software drivers... so you can listen to your mix with about 70 samples of latency, to record more accurately... but that's why Pro Tools is Pro Tools.
 
Slackmaster2K said:

But what's important is what's actually going to & from the soundcard? Were you using a 16 or 24 bit soundcard?
Click to expand...

i was using a staudio dsp2000 c-port its 24bit
i also used a motu2408mkII last night
 
Boy, what's going on with my setup? When I get this offset on tracks to which I apply effects, I get them even when I do a mixdown. If I could find out how to get rid of this, I could have all the latency in the world and it wouldn't bother me.

dachayn2tnr: It doesn't matter what type of plugin I use. Most recently I tried it with a compressor, and the same thing happened. Should I maybe upload an mp3 sample of what I'm talking about so you guys know for sure? Let me know, and I'll do it.

Thanks a bunch.
 
??

Are you using realtime effects?

Even so, this shouldnt be a problem in any way.

so lemme get it str8.:
You have two identical tracks....you add comp to one.. and you can HEAR an audible delay?

have you tried a different prog? If so, is the prob identical?

Is the delay the same length regardless of what effect you use?

??

xoxo
 
No, I haven't tried a different program yet. I'll try the version of Logic that came with the Delta 66.

The length of the delay seems to remain constant.
 
Whoa! Hold up! User stupidity alert!

It turns out that only that specific plugin (Sonic Foundry Graphic Dynamics) was causing the problem. I wonder why. I just thought I remembered this happening with different plugins, but I was mistaken. Anyway, never mind, no need for mucking around with my system or changing my software.
 
What is latency? I don't know much about computer based recording and everything I 've been reading about it lately keeps mentioning latency. Can someone PLEASE clue me in.
 
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