Installed a Delta 44 on my Win2K DAW....

PapillonIrl

PapillonIrl

New member
Ok.

Took some fiddling but the new drivers seem to be up to scratch. I have been testing it with four mics going into this mixer...

http://www.behringer.com/eng/products/eurorack/mx2004a.htm

and from four channel inserts in the mixer into the breakout box. It records each mic to a seprate channel with virtually no noise, unlike my old card. I still have my old soundcard enabled, and can swap the output between them to change from monitors to headphones with no problem.

I'm doing everything in 32-bit in CEP and have the CODEC sample rate set to 96,000 in the Midiman Mixer. Excuse my ignorance here, but does this mean I'm not limited to 16-bit, as this seemed to be an issue with some 2K systems with Deltas ?

I didn't install any of the drivers from the CD. I believe these would have to be uninstalled using Midiman's uninstall programs (more downloading) if I had installed them and wanted to use they updated ones later.

There is only one problem, and again, I'm pretty sure it's down to my ignorance and not the soundcard or drivers...the signal reaching Cool Edit seems very weak when I set the Midiman Mixer software to accept a signal of +4db. This is (supposedly) the output of my mixer so why is this happening ? If I set Midiman software to accept a signal of -10db the waveform looks right. This can't be right. Is it anything to do with my cables possibly being unbalanced ? I never took the time to understand this term properly, maybe it's time I did.

I would really appreciate if somebody familiar with Delta soundcards could maybe take a look at the the link above showing the specs of my mixer and try and help me out as it is doing my head in !




pAp.
 
If you're seeing -10db levels, then you can assume that the signal from the mixer is a -10db signal (assuming the meters on your mixer are peaking). It's possible that the channel inserts operate at -10db. It's possible that the electronics know whether you're using balanced or unbalanced cable, and adjust the levels appropriately (typically unbalanced = -10db, balanced = +4db). I took a look at that link and couldn't find much information...and didn't want to download the manual...so you'll have to take a look.

CEP, like most audio software, works internally with 32bit floating point numbers (decimal). For some reason the CEP people have an option to save files in this 32bit format. I suppose they claim it saves on a conversion routine which can speed things up slightly. Personally I think it's so that they can say "32 bit recording" because it sounds cool. Anyhow, this doesn't mean that you're recording at 24bit. In fact, I thought that CEP was a 16bit application...but my information could be wrong.

With older Delta drivers, you were limited to 16bit recording in MME applications and I'm not sure if that's still the case. However, if you're doing WDM or ASIO, you will not have this limitation. You'll have to find out the kind of driver you're using in CEP. For instance in n-Track I have the option to choose between using the Delta ASIO, WDM, MME, or DS drivers.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Thanks Slackmaster, I missed your other thread somehow or I would have added this experience to it. I think CEP can record in 24-bit as they have been advising against using 2K with Delta, as on some systems you could be, in their words 'limited to 16-bit'.

I'll ask them about this.

pAp.
 
pAp : Can Cool Edit read 20 and 24 bit audio from cards that support those rates?

Syntrillium : Yes. Choose the next higher bit size, that is, 32-bits. All 20-bits will be read from the sound card, and the rest just set to zero. Internally it is very inefficient to work with packed 20-bit data, so we just set the extra 4 bits (to make 24) to zero, and set the exponent to zero.


Seems like it can, should I have reason to doubt them ?

pAp.
 
just a note...

only the XLR main outs are balanced on your behringer

the 1/4" outs on the Behringer (both main and AUX outs) are unbalanced....I'm assuming that you're using these to generate your 4 signals to the Delta...so your levels are right on

I have almost the same configuration (Delta44, Behringer MX1604a) and I'm pretty sure that my Delta is set to accept -10db and I use the 1/4" main and Aux outs to route 4 signals to the card
 
Cheers !

Having your mind set at ease about hard-earned spent money is a nice feeling :D.

Does using unbalanced outputs reduce the audio quality significantly ?

pAp.
 
well....regarding unbalanced/balanced...

My understanding is that using unbalanced versus balanced will not adversely affect your signal quality UNLESS you are running long lengths of cable between your mixer and soundcard (in this case)....
 
Yeah, that was Slack's answer to a similar question of mine - balanced lines offer protection against noise when you run long cables. Radio frequencies, I'd guess. Dunno.

As for Cool Edit, yeah, you can trust it to be at 24-bit when it says 32-bit. The 32-bit thing is for processing, not storing.

Okay, now I've got a question. If you hang around long enough and read enough posts, you usually pick this stuff up, but there's something I'm just not getting. Slack said:

"For instance in n-Track I have the option to choose between using the Delta ASIO, WDM, MME, or DS drivers."

Everybody talks about ASIO drivers or WDM drivers. What's this all about? What difference what driver you use?
 
Dobro, both ASIO and the new WDM offer very low latency. That is, when I'm using ASIO drivers in n-Track, there is about a 0.05 second delay from the time I move a fader until I hear the result of the move. That 50ms is a hell of a lot nicer to work with than they typical 250 to 500 milliseconds that you'll usually deal with using MME (multimedia extensions) or DS (direct sound) drivers.

I should report that I tried recording using the new WDM drivers for the Delta today and I couldn't record at 24bit. So I'm back using ASIO on the old drivers. Not sure yet if this is n-Track's fault or the drivers. I emailed Flavio...so we'll know shortly.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Ha! Thang yew verra muj. Got it! I now understand why I want ASIO or WDM drivers. Hmm... what about Cool Edit and my Wave 824, I wonder...

When the drivers don't work, is it three variables involved? OS, soundcard, software? Or just two?
 
Slack - How did you find out you are not recording in 24-bit ? I am not familiar with n-track. Or did it refuse to record at all ? I just want to make sure that I really am recording at 24, I also have the new WDM driver.

Dobro - I'm a little confused about what drivers Cool Edit uses, I thought it was just MME drivers, no ? Regarding your question on how many variables concerned, I would have said as long as the software you are using supports the type of driver (MME,ASIO etc.) then I imagine there are only the two variables involved.

Any clarification on these issues greatly appreciated,

pAp.
 
In n-Track I can choose the bit depth I record at. I had been playing back 24bit files just fine, but when I went to record, n-Track kept saying that it couldn't open the wave ouput device whenever I selected 24bit on the input I wanted to record from. It worked fine when I selected 16bit however, but that's not what I wanted.

I'm back doing ASIO on the non-multiclient driver, which is available on the website right under the multiclient.

Slackmaster 2000
 
SlackMaster, I thought it was just me. With the WDM drivers I am unable to select 24-bit mode for recording into anything. 16bit works OK but I had that before I bought the M Audio card. Does anyone else have a problem with Tech Support from M Audio?

I can get to 24 bit mode if I use the ASIO drivers but then I get snap crackle pop. I'm thinking I'm screwed with this card. I cannot say enough how lame tech support was. When I look at different places on the web there are many problems with these cards. I guess its time to look elsewhere.
 
it seems ALL soundcards are buggered with Win2K even though its such a better OS then win98. one thing to do is to download SP2 from microsoft. that could help. Thats what tech support has told both me and Slack2K
 
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