Hardware rack gear no longer needed?

M

mattkw80

New member
Is most Hardware rack gear going to become a thing of the past?

I post this here in the "Computer Recording" folder, because my question mostly has to do the software Plug-ins.

Most everybody agree's that Digital is getting better and better, almost as good as analog, and is here to stay.

I was thinking about saving up most of this year, until I had $3000 to buy an actual Teletronix LA-2A. It would be the most expensive piece of gear I ever bought, and I could be confident that I am using pretty much the best compressor on earth, at my house.

However, when I mentioned that in a few threads - quite a few people brought up software alternatives in the form of plug-ins. There are also some arguments going around this bbs along the lines of - if our songs are going to end up as lossy MP3's anyway, why blow our brains out buying expensive gear to make it sound stellar?


Having said all that - it looks like to me, 5 or 10 years into the future, the only hardware anyone will need will be...... (in no order)

1. Excellent Pre-amps

2. Power Conditioning

3. Headphone Amps

4. Excellent Mics

5. Mixer board / Interface into the Computer / A/D convertors



Moving forward, are software plugins going to obsolete most outboard gear ?
 
mattkw80 said:
There are also some arguments going around this bbs along the lines of - if our songs are going to end up as lossy MP3's anyway, why blow our brains out buying expensive gear to make it sound stellar?...

Moving forward, are software plugins going to obsolete most outboard gear ?
Click to expand...

Quite the contrary--people who have gotten into recording recently, using only plugins, are usually blown away when they start using hardware.

I use both plugins and very nice hardware, and plugins cannot compare to hardware for the sheer sonic magic it can bring to a track. There isn't a plugin on the planet that can do what my Avalon AD2044 compressor can do for a piano track, for example. Or what other great hardware units can do.

There is a place for plugins, no question. And there are some great things about plugins like the instant recall when load up a project. Many plugins have some great features that you can only really do with computer processing. And of course, you can have as many instances of a plugin on your tracks as your computer can handle.

That said, plugins process what's there. One thing they don't do well is bring their own special magic or vibe to the track. At least not on a par with what great hardware can.

So I definitely do *not* think hardware is or will be obsolete any time soon. If anything, people might get bored with plugins and want a little more of what hardware can do for them.

Look at used prices for famous hardware processors--they are not going down. Just the opposite. If anything, the demand for good hardware processors is up.

Ever tried selling a plugin that's a year old? Virtually worthless. How about a plugin five years? Impossible, because it's not even compatible with newer systems and therefore valueless.

Good hardware units retain their value because they have value and because many people understand the value of what they bring to their tracks.
 
There is nothing in theory which could prevent plugins from being as good as hardware. In some cases there are things that can be done in *non linear* DSP that cant be done in hardware at all

In practice the game is a lot different. Even for the die hard plugin guys, you'll still hear a LOT of complaining about reverbs, and here's the DUMBEST thing:

DSP reverbs exist that people like. That means its code that could easily be ported to a plugin, but its not.

That's an extreme case but there are tons of others, maybe a bit more subtle, but certainly things keeping hardware guys from enjoying plugins as much.

Personally, my hardware can wow clients, and it won't be sold anytime soon, but in practice I only use plugins. I may mix an album at 3 or more different places and wont always have access to the same hardware, so its just easier, plus I get the results I want.

In most cases though, even as far as we have come, there is an IMMEDIACY with turning a real knob, hearing a real result, and making a decision that hardware brings to the table in a way that software interfaces for the most part don't have right now. This can make a mix sound better because it was easy to do. If you have a good time mixing, youll have a good mix.
 
Alot of good responses here, thanks guys !

Pipeline, do you have any examples where "Plug-in example A" has replaced "Hardware example A" ?


I do agree with Sonic Albert, in that Hardware does retain it's value far better.

But right now I'm at a cross roads... where do I invest my money?
 
LemonTree said:
there's also a bit of a margine between you run of the mill plugins and a good DSP card ;)
Click to expand...
I could swear that said "margarine" the first time I read it... And I immediately pictured someone smearing Imperial all over a UAD card...

Is it the spelling errors? Or am I just sick...? :eek:
 
mattkw80 said:
Alot of good responses here, thanks guys !

Pipeline, do you have any examples where "Plug-in example A" has replaced "Hardware example A" ?
Click to expand...

Noisegates without question. Ultrafunk for the first cross compatible one to really take advantage of the abilities of software.
 
pipelineaudio said:
Noisegates without question. Ultrafunk for the first cross compatible one to really take advantage of the abilities of software.
Click to expand...


Pipeline,

I noticed you've been tossing the Stillwell plugins around here and there in threads.

Do you like them?

I havn't tried the Major Tom yet, as you suggested, but I have downloaded it.
 
There are pretty good arguments for using hardware as well as just plugins after a good preamp. Some hardware units sound amazing but if you record with a hardware unit you're stuck with the sound. If you record clean and use plugins afterwards you can try a variety of different sounds with the same track. Same goes for using different preamps I guess. If you know exactly what sound you want go ahead and chain up the hardware. If you don't know exactly what direction you want things to go in and have limited recording time with the artist you can get some good results and variety with just plugins. Good hardware is always a nice option to have.
 
mattkw80 said:
Pipeline,

I noticed you've been tossing the Stillwell plugins around here and there in threads.

Do you like them?

I havn't tried the Major Tom yet, as you suggested, but I have downloaded it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I like his and schwa's and Loser's stuff. There's a JS version of MajorTom in reaper as wellyou can ply with. Some people do better with gui's, some people do worse, so try them either way.
 
scrouch said:
There are pretty good arguments for using hardware as well as just plugins after a good preamp. Some hardware units sound amazing but if you record with a hardware unit you're stuck with the sound. If you record clean and use plugins afterwards you can try a variety of different sounds with the same track. Same goes for using different preamps I guess. If you know exactly what sound you want go ahead and chain up the hardware. If you don't know exactly what direction you want things to go in and have limited recording time with the artist you can get some good results and variety with just plugins. Good hardware is always a nice option to have.
Click to expand...


"you're stuck with the sound." -- I forgot about that disadvantage.
 
mattkw80 said:
"you're stuck with the sound." -- I forgot about that disadvantage.
Click to expand...


Well, I f you have good hardware, a good direction and good experience this just isn't true in many cases. Assuming the criteria I mentioned is met you could just as easily say "you GET to have that sound" ;)
 
If it wasn;t needed all the professional studios wouldnt have it. Sure you can survive without it. But it wont yield the best results.
 
DAS19 said:
If it wasn;t needed all the professional studios wouldnt have it.
Click to expand...

They used to say the same thing about needing heroin, cocaine and skills, but times have changed

Sure you can survive without it. But it wont yield the best results.
Click to expand...

Definitely better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. For the first few years of doing the in the box thing, the rack stuff was my Dumbo's Magic Feather. I knew it was there, and didnt worry. Plugins were nowhere near as good as they are now though.
 
mattkw80 said:
"you're stuck with the sound." -- I forgot about that disadvantage.
Click to expand...

I record in Nuendo. You can set up hardware units to be used as sends or inserts on any channel in the programme. You just use them like any plugin.

It will even calculate the latency incurred by this, and adjust for it accordingly.

That said, I rarely do that... :o
 
Even with Steinbergs outboard routing schemes, that still does not help someone who only has 2 channels of 1176's and wants to use it on 6 or 8 tracks. At this point you either have to use them during tracking or bounce tracks out 2 at a time to the unit which will also introduce an extra conversion out and in. Granted, someone with good outboard should also have good enough converters that the outboard gear's contribution should by far outweigh the very slight loss of one extra conversion cycle through good converters.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top