Gear Shaming

But I always had the guitarist in the control room and the cabinet somewhere else, so the guitarist would here what was being recorded, instead of getting ghost distracted by what it sounded like in the room.

Sensible approach, even more so when recording yourself.
 
When I had the studio, I had big enough mains so I could get feedback in the control room, if needed. I could also help control it with the EQ on the board if he was having a hard time getting the right harmonic to squeal.

I do get your point. Maybe I just had too many guys with goofy guitar tones, that I just took them away from the room sound to get them focused on the recording, without having to have the 'my sound' conversation. Too many people confuse tone with the felling they get when they stand in front of the amp. This happens a lot with bass players that have a sound that is all low end. Put headphones on them and they say they can't hear themselves (even though you can hear them in their headphones from across the room)
 
I'm often in the position of being asked opinions on some of the forums I inhabit. One consists of very protective parents al pushing their talented (or not so) kids. All the reviews are gushing and 10% deserve it. I am honest. They hate me.

It's all about the new, uber political correctness that's infected everything. It has the beginnings of a very Orwellian "1984" future...think-speak, and the slow elimination of words from use....like, this mix "sucks". :D


The most important thing I've learned from this site is, technique is THE most important quality in a engineer. The performance and mic placement is everything. You get those 2 thing right, and everything else will be all good.

Right...getting those sounds up front instead of trying to create them after the fact, makes it a lot easier in the long run, IMO.
 
Put headphones on them and they say they can't hear themselves (even though you can hear them in their headphones from across the room)

Yeah... :) ...it really screws with a lot of recording newbs...recording with cans and listening to cue mixes and all that.

I've got all my stuff in one open space, so headphones are a must when mics are being used...but I've been recording with headphones for 30 years at least, so it's quite easy to hear what I need to hear in the phones, and I don't pay critical attention to headphone tones...it's just a cue.
When I'm recording solo...I'll hear and set the tone in the room, put on the cans and record a couple of passes, play it back...then go make a couple of adjustments...etc.
I don't mind that whole process...it just is what it is.

I've had singers do that...ask for more volume in the cans...more volume...more volume... :D
 
The gear shaming thing happens pretty regular ime. Some folks get real upset when they find out other people are using amp sims or drum sequencers. There are whole threads on here and plenty of arguments about it.
 
I don't think anyone gets upset 'cuz someone else is using sims and samples...I mean, they're no different than plugs vs hardware...etc.

The point that is usually made is that the art of recording with mics, in a space, etc, etc...is being dismissed too quickly by too many people, for the sake of creating everything in an ITB virtual reality. There's nothing wring with using those virtual tools....but people lose so much knowledge about actual recording when they live entirely ITB, and when they never do anything but ITB.

Recording IMO, really comes to life when you make and capture sounds live, in a space...and you interact with them and play against them..etc.

So it's not shaming...it's maybe more about lamenting the loss of that for many newbs. :)
 
I don't think anyone gets upset 'cuz someone else is using sims and samples...I mean, they're no different than plugs vs hardware...etc.

The point that is usually made is that the art of recording with mics, in a space, etc, etc...is being dismissed too quickly by too many people, for the sake of creating everything in an ITB virtual reality. There's nothing wring with using those virtual tools....but people lose so much knowledge about actual recording when they live entirely ITB, and when they never did anything but ITB.

Recording IMO, really comes to life when you make and capture sounds live, in a space...and you interact with it and play against it..etc.

So it's not shaming...it's maybe more about the lamenting the loss of that for many newbs. :)

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
Lol.

Anyway...

I find it difficult to second guess a person's sound. I'm not recording cover bands or mainstream clones anyway. The stuff that comes into my studio is meant to be original and at least to some extent unprecedented. Nobody in the world knows what the Fabulous D-Bags are supposed to sound like until they turn on their amps and go. So who am I to tell him it's like all fizzy and squishy and sucks? That's what he's shooting for. My job is to figure how and why it works, not so much to insist that it doesn't. But I do agree that some folks aren't really honest and objective about what they actually sound like.

I record all in one space, so I can't pull the guitarist into the control room like that. Instead, I try to get the speakers as far off the ground as possible. Of course, this helps with floor reflections, but it also gets that amp blasting into dude's face. Tilting an amp back enough can have the same effect. Sometimes this is like the first time he's ever been forced to hear what's actually coming out of his amp. Sometimes he goes "Wow, that's kinda weird," but then he turns a couple knobs and almost as importantly plays to that sound. Then I try to figure out what that does and where it needs to sit in the mix. Then I put a mic in front of the amp and move it around until it does that.

I shoot to have very little to do at mix time other than set faders and adjust pans.
 
The gear shaming thing happens pretty regular ime. Some folks get real upset when they find out other people are using amp sims or drum sequencers. There are whole threads on here and plenty of arguments about it.
Usually one of two things are happening in these conversations:

1. Guy wants his stuff to sound like (insert classic recording here that was recorded with live instruments in a room), and doesn't like being told that what he is using won't accomplish that goal.

2. An old guy telling everyone that he is saddened by the fact that so many people that are newer to recording won't get the chance to interact with the process the way that they did. Which the newb takes as shaming somehow, says something defensive and it gets out of hand from there.

This is art, so you are free to create anything you want to, in any manner you wish. however, the moment you decide what the outcome needs to be, you have limited yourself to the equipment and techniques that will give that result. Some people get pissy when they are told that the equipment they have will not produce the result they want. They take it as gear shaming, when it's just reality.

OP "I want to go to Home Depot and get 10 pieces of plywood"

old guy "Dude, you have a corvette, it won't work. You need a truck."

OP "Screw you! My corvette is just as good as any truck... Maybe even better!"

old guy "you need the right tool for the job"

OP "I know of a contractor that has a corvette, do you mean to tell me a contractor doesn't haul around plywood and drywall?"

etc...
 
however, the moment you decide what the outcome needs to be, you have limited yourself to the equipment and techniques that will give that result.
Or re-align your goals. This is something I do think sometimes gets lost in discussions around here. People get caught up in the "You can't do that cause you don't have this", and we never get around to the "Here's something you could do with what you have that would be just as valid."
 
Or re-align your goals. This is something I do think sometimes gets lost in discussions around here. People get caught up in the "You can't do that cause you don't have this", and we never get around to the "Here's something you could do with what you have that would be just as valid."

I agree, it gets lost in discussion. But it's what people on the forum who are producing music are doing every day. They are getting things done with the gear they have.
 
Or re-align your goals. This is something I do think sometimes gets lost in discussions around here. People get caught up in the "You can't do that cause you don't have this", and we never get around to the "Here's something you could do with what you have that would be just as valid."

But even that often gets a negative reception, because people have made up their minds.
There's been a million threads where folks will try and explain to someone why their goals are unattainable with what they have or the situation they are in...and many simply don't want to hear that.

The folks here that record regularly already know in advance what the capability is in their environment to achieve a goal...so we will work with that in mind form the git-go. However, many recording newbs will set goals without any thought as to what it takes to get there. I mean, how many times have newbs come here, ask something that is obviously ridiculous...and when people try and set them straight, the newb blows up and screams..."why can't anyone just tell me what I want to know"...completely missing the point that we are giving...but it's just not what they want to hear. :D

My personal approach to recording, and something I've said before, is that I will go in with a set plan, but at some point, the production process takes on a life of it's own, and often it will want to go in a direction, maybe one I have not considered.
I like to at that point, go with the flow. If I'm hearing/seeing something I didn't expect...I adjust and make that work for me, instead of fighting it by going for something less attainable in my situation.
 
Anyway, the original tangential point was about songwriting, not mixing.

There can be many tangential points. A circle has an infinity of them.

Even if their own mixes are massively flawed and their listening environment is garbage?

Yes.

It is easier to accept criticism from someone who has demonstrated strong capability in the area in question.

But because someone else can't mix well (or sing well, or play guitar well) doesn't mean they are unable to tell when a mix sounds bad (or a singer is off key. or a guitar is played badly). I agree that it may be difficult to accept criticism from someone whose mixes are flawed. However, the strength of any argument or assertion is not in who makes it, but in what is being said.
 
I agree, it gets lost in discussion. But it's what people on the forum who are producing music are doing every day. They are getting things done with the gear they have.
It does get lost, but that is because of the specific question being asked.

Question "can I get the guitar sound from Metallica's black album? I have a fender twin, a 57 and a presonus interface."

Answer: No.

Some people will take that to mean that the answerer thinks questioner's equipment sucks. It's not true, he just doesn't have anything close that will get him the sound he says he wants. For that, he would need a Mesa MkV, a 57 AND a 421, Neve preamps and a 24 track tape machine.

Anything other than that, no matter how wonderful it is, will not create the desired result.
 
In my short time here, I don't think I've seen many (any?) posts/comments/threads about specific gear/brands. Actually, I think everyone does a good job of biting their tongue/fingers when it comes to it. As much as some threads go awry, I think everyone here does a great job of reinforcing "get it right at the source" and the other basics that are most important.

Maybe a few particular threads went the other way, but overall I wouldn't see this forum as recommending specific brands/gear.
 
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