External A/D converter with Roland VS 1880

famous beagle

famous beagle

Well-known member
Hey y'all,

I came across a Roland VS 1880 for almost free, and I've heard people get the best results with these things when using an external A/D converter to bypass the on-board pres. I've never done this before, and so I'm not exactly sure what's meant.

Is this basically saying:

1. Use an A/I interface that has a digital out (the Roland has S/PDIF in and out)
2. Run your external pre into this A/I and then go out the digital out to the Roland's digital in?

If so, is it possible to use just the break-out box of a PCI interface (like the Echo Gina, for instance) without the PCI cable? Or does it need the cable to work at all, even if you're not recording into the computer?

Hope this all makes sense.

Thanks!

Edit: Oh, now that I think about it, I guess you'd need the PCI cable for the breakout box to access the mixer software so you could route which signal would be going to the digital out, huh?
 
So, your S/PDIF will be stereo. Hard drive has a special connection. There is a converter that will convert the HD to an SD card, but because of the OS on the Roland, it has a size limit (not sure how much) and Roland uses a proprietary format. But they make a converter for it so that you can, record on the Roland to the SD, slip that into the computer and bring it strait into Reaper for example.

But understand, unless you have a SCSI drive, the above is about the best way to get it to the computer.
 
DM60 said:
So, your S/PDIF will be stereo. Hard drive has a special connection. There is a converter that will convert the HD to an SD card, but because of the OS on the Roland, it has a size limit (not sure how much) and Roland uses a proprietary format. But they make a converter for it so that you can, record on the Roland to the SD, slip that into the computer and bring it strait into Reaper for example.

But understand, unless you have a SCSI drive, the above is about the best way to get it to the computer.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. However, I don't want to get it to the computer (at least, not until the song's all mixed and all). I want to record on the Roland using an external A/D converter to bypass the on-board pres in the Roland and use my own external mic pres, but I'm just not exactly sure how to do this with regards to hardware because I've never done it before.
 
Not 100% sure, but based on some pics, it looks like you can set it to Mic or Line on a knob at the top of the channel.
 
Thanks. :) I guess I'm not being too clear.

I'm not confused about the Roland end of things. I'm confused about the external A/D converter part. I've never used an external A/D converter, and I don't really know what unit to use.

When people say they use "external A/D converters," what are they talking about? Since I'd only be able to record two tracks at once on the Roland (the digital in S/PDIF is just a stereo jack), I don't want to shell out thousands for a 16-channel something or other.

I saw a Digidesign 1622 on ebay that looks promising. See the attached PDF. On page 11, it talks about using the 1622 as a standalone A/D converter. Would this work for what I'm talking about?

For example, let's say I wanted to record an acoustic track, but I want to bypass the Roland's onboard pres and use the digital in.

I plug my mic into my external pre ---> external compressor ---> Digidesign 1622 input

Then I go out the digital out of the Digidesign to the digital in of the Roland, assign the input to a track, and record it.

Is that right? Is that the process of using an "external A/D converter," and would that piece of the hardware (the 1622) do the trick?

Thanks
 

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  • Digidesign 1622 User's Guide.pdf
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famous beagle said:
Thanks. :) I guess I'm not being too clear.

I'm not confused about the Roland end of things. I'm confused about the external A/D converter part. I've never used an external A/D converter, and I don't really know what unit to use.

When people say they use "external A/D converters," what are they talking about? Since I'd only be able to record two tracks at once on the Roland (the digital in S/PDIF is just a stereo jack), I don't want to shell out thousands for a 16-channel something or other.

I saw a Digidesign 1622 on ebay that looks promising. See the attached PDF. On page 11, it talks about using the 1622 as a standalone A/D converter. Would this work for what I'm talking about?

For example, let's say I wanted to record an acoustic track, but I want to bypass the Roland's onboard pres and use the digital in.

I plug my mic into my external pre ---> external compressor ---> Digidesign 1622 input

Then I go out the digital out of the Digidesign to the digital in of the Roland, assign the input to a track, and record it.

Is that right? Is that the process of using an "external A/D converter," and would that piece of the hardware (the 1622) do the trick?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Yea, if you look it is all lines in then it goes to a interface card. This assumes not processing on the PCI card, just data pass through.

On the Roland, since it is all digital, it converts. So the pre's would just process the signal gain and pass it through to the converter. The converter changes it to digital and send to the computer via an interface card inside the computer.

Does this help?
 
DM60 said:
Yea, if you look it is all lines in then it goes to a interface card. This assumes not processing on the PCI card, just data pass through.

On the Roland, since it is all digital, it converts. So the pre's would just process the signal gain and pass it through to the converter. The converter changes it to digital and send to the computer via an interface card inside the computer.

Does this help?
Click to expand...

Gosh ... I still don't know if we're on the same page.

I don't want to send any audio into a computer.

I want to send an analog audio signal (from my external pre) into an external A/D converter (which is the Digidesign 1622 in my example above), convert it to digital, and then send that digital signal to the Roland to record it there. That's it.

A computer (a PC or Mac, that is) is not included in this process at all.

I just want to know if my process in post #5 is correct in how this is done.
 
That should work using the SPDIF connections. You could also go from an external pre with a SPDIF output directly into the Rolands SPDIF input. I'm pretty sure that using the Roland SPDIF input will bypass the Roland pre's.
 
PDP said:
That should work using the SPDIF connections. You could also go from an external pre with a SPDIF output directly into the Rolands SPDIF input. I'm pretty sure that using the Roland SPDIF input will bypass the Roland pre's.
Click to expand...

Ok thanks. Yes that's what I meant (SPDIF in on the Roland) when I said:

Then I go out the digital out of the Digidesign to the digital in of the Roland, assign the input to a track, and record it.
 
Yes, You can go into the Roland spdif input from any unit with a spdif output. But it is only worth it if you have something with better preamps and better converters. Otherwise, you are just making your life difficult for no good reason.

The preamps and converters in the 1880 are fine. The thing that sucks about it is the fixed point mix buss (as opposed to floating point), it's too easy to clip the mix buss and turning down the master doesn't stop the clipping, like on a computer DAW.
 
DM60 said:
Yea, if you look it is all lines in then it goes to a interface card. This assumes not processing on the PCI card, just data pass through.

On the Roland, since it is all digital, it converts. So the pre's would just process the signal gain and pass it through to the converter. The converter changes it to digital and send to the computer via an interface card inside the computer.

Does this help?
Click to expand...
He is trying to bypass the Roland's preamps and converters by using outboard preamps and converters and going into the roland's spdif input.
 
Farview said:
Yes, You can go into the Roland spdif input from any unit with a spdif output. But it is only worth it if you have something with better preamps and better converters. Otherwise, you are just making your life difficult for no good reason.

The preamps and converters in the 1880 are fine. The thing that sucks about it is the fixed point mix buss (as opposed to floating point), it's too easy to clip the mix buss and turning down the master doesn't stop the clipping, like on a computer DAW.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Well you know you just hear all kinds of opinions from everyone. I've heard generally good things about the Roland VS machines, but one common thing I hear is that their preamps are pretty lame. I'd like the option to try it both ways to see if I like one or the other better.

Regarding fixed point vs. floating point, that's a bit beyond my understanding. But aren't I ok if I just keep my levels within reasonable boundaries?
 
Yes, you will be fine. The trick is to keep the master fader at unity (zero). That way, you will know if you are clipping the mix buss.

The preamps are lame, but no more lame than the ones on the cheap mackie boards or even most outboard preamps less than $150/channel. The converters are probably fine, but you can't get to the converters without going through the preamps...
 
Farview said:
Yes, You can go into the Roland spdif input from any unit with a spdif output. But it is only worth it if you have something with better preamps and better converters. Otherwise, you are just making your life difficult for no good reason.
Click to expand...

Two things that might remain; The Digidesign wants to run internal/Master clock (probably its normal setup), sends the live input out SPDIF, and the Roland needs its clock source as 'external or 'SPDIF in' - assuming they can?
 
Yeah that's why I wanted to try it this way. I've got some decent pres now (a highly modded Presonus MP20 and a Neve 1272 clone from Seventh Circle Audio), which I'm quite confident are better than mackie board pres.

Thanks for your input! I really appreciate the help.
 
(previous post was directed at Fairview)

mixsit said:
Two things that might remain; The Digidesign wants to run internal/Master clock (probably its normal setup), sends the live input out SPDIF, and the Roland needs its clock source as 'external or 'SPDIF in' - assuming they can?
Click to expand...

Yes this is something I meant to ask about. I'm pretty much totally clueless when it comes to clock settings. I'll look in the Roland manual to see if it mentions anything about that.

Thanks
 
mixsit said:
Two things that might remain; The Digidesign wants to run internal/Master clock (probably its normal setup), sends the live input out SPDIF, and the Roland needs its clock source as 'external or 'SPDIF in' - assuming they can?
Click to expand...

Just checked out the manual and found this:

Match Sample Rates
The VS-1880 can record digital signals only when the sample rate of the song is set to the same sample rate of the digital source. When a drive is initialized, the default sample rate of a song is 44.1 kHz. If the sample rate of the source is other than 44.1 kHz, create a new song with that sample rate (p. 50).

Set the Master Clock
In order to bring any digital signal into the VS-1880, you must synchronize the VS-1880's internal clock with the digital signal from the your digital source.

MasterClk (Master Clock)
This sets the VS-1880's reference clock.
DIGIN1 : Receives digital timing information from the DIGITAL IN 1 connector (coaxial).
INT: Uses the VS-1880's own internal clock.
DIGIN2: Receives digital timing information from the DIGITAL IN 2 connector (optical).

So it seems as though it's able to read the clock from the external A/D converter, yes?
 
Exactly. Just set the clock reference to the digital input that you are feeding from your outboard converters and you should be good to go.
 
famous beagle said:
Yeah that's why I wanted to try it this way. I've got some decent pres now (a highly modded Presonus MP20 and a Neve 1272 clone from Seventh Circle Audio), which I'm quite confident are better than mackie board pres.

Thanks for your input! I really appreciate the help.
Click to expand...

I have an MP20, which sits unused on the desk... out of curiousity, what where the mods?
 
Armistice said:
I have an MP20, which sits unused on the desk... out of curiousity, what where the mods?
Click to expand...

The bulk of the sound improvement came from these modifications:

1. Replace transformers with original Jensen models (assuming it didn't come with them, which mine didn't).
2. Replace the 5534 chips with LT1357. This is easy because they're socketed.
3. Replace the MC33079 quad surface mount chips (3 if I remember) with LME49740MA.

There were a few cap replacements I think as well if I remember correctly. I'd have to look back at my notes if you're interested.

I guess looking back over it, it's not as "highly modded" as I thought. It was my first mod project, so it seemed pretty substantial to me at the time. :)
 
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