Complete Setup Advice Please

AfxTwn

New member
Hi everyone, I know this is incredibly lazy but I have gone through some of the other threads and already have an idea of what I need to make music on my computer but I'd appreciate it if someone could give me a complete idea of what I need for everything I want to record.

Basically I am going to be getting a new PC this year and finally getting something modern and up to the task of recording music. At the moment I am using a Focusrite Scalett 2i2 audio interface which outputs to a pair of M-Audio AV30 speakers and some Audio Technica ATH-M50 headphones. Because I like to record lots of different instruments (guitar, Microkorg, Korg Volca's, Kaossilator's, iPad, Monotribe, Monotron's...) and I'm likely to get more as time goes on (probably a Microbrute next and one day the new Korg MS20 Desktop kit) and because my audio interface only has 2 inputs, I have connected my old Tascam M-06 mixer to the inputs of my Focusrite. This leaves me with 6 channels on my mixer to connect the various instruments to for recording. Also connected to my mixer is my Zoom G3X multi-effects/looper pedal. This is connected from the mixer's effects out to the G3's guitar input and then the G3's output is connected back into the mixer's effects return input. This is because each of the mixer's 6 channels has it's own effects knob so I can add effects from the G3 to each channel separately or altogether and determine how much of the effect is in the mix.

So it's quite a complicated setup and causes some problems, mainly hiss from the mixer (this is heard more when my Focusrite's inputs are set to instrument rather than line) and also when I am recording (I use Mixcraft btw), obviously everything from the mixer will record to one track in my DAW. I also have to unplug one of the Focusrite's inputs from the mixer (the mixer is connected to both inputs for stereo sound) if I want to use a microphone direct into the audio interface. I know connecting my instruments direct to my audio interface will give much better quality but as my Focusrite only has a couple of inputs, this isn't always possible.

So, I would like to know whether I should get a mixer with an audio interface built-in so I can just connect that straight to my new PC and then all my instruments into the mixer or should I get an audio interface with more inputs than my current Scarlett's 2 or again go for a mixture of both but with a better mixer?

I'm going to be getting a PC with an Intel i7 CPU and probably 8GB of DDR3 RAM but I might upgrade to 16GB later on and Windows 7 64 bit (possibly Windows 8 but I'm not convinced by it).

I'd really appreciate if people could help narrow my setup down and give me a definitive idea of what to get. Oh I also have a USB MIDI keyboard for controlling/playing VST's etc so I don't know if any audio interface with MIDI connections would be better or to just connect the keyboard direct to my PC's USB inputs.

Thanks for any help and sorry for the lazy and long post.
 
A mixer with USB connectivity is most likely only going to give you what the scarlet can, i.e. two track.

There are mixers that allow the recording of many tracks simultaneously, but they usually have substantial price tags. An example is the Presonus studio live.

However, if you get a multi-input interface, you don't really need a mixer. I use a firewire Firedpod, which gives me eight inputs. The TASCAM 1800 is a USB version that is well regarded.

If you do midi, it is fine to get a keyboard with USB, in which case you don't need midi on the interface. However, it is kind of handy to have. I have a keyboard that connects via USB, but I also have another connected to the interface via midi DIN, and a an external sound module as well.
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The new Tascam 16x08 is a great choice. You get more inputs than the 1800 at the cost of S/PDIF which you apparently don't use. Some of the outputs/inputs could be used to loop your pedal just as you are doing. Also see Scarlett's 18i20 or Steinberg's UR824 if budget allows. While we're on the subject of budget, if you really have some cash to throw around and are ready for a "next step up" in the AI realm, RME's Fireface 802 will be a unit you can use for decades to come...
AFA midi. There are drawbacks to USB midi. 1) it takes up a USB port for every device and sometimes those ports get rare. 2) Even on my $2000 midi unit, having the midi USB cable hooked up adds noise (a lot of noise) to the stereo output of the unit, so if you want to record it's native sounds, you have to disconnect the USB cable (or just use the midi in/out dins.
 
Another thing to think about if ou decide to go the mixer route - most USB mixers only do 16 bit AD conversion and they tend to be noisy (high pitched whine when the volume is cranked up).
When I started recording with a stand-alone recorder, I thought the same as you - use a mixer so everything is always connected, save so much time plugging and unplugging stuff. But it does add a noise factor to the signal (less in the chain is almost always better). Now, even with all the inputs I have avaialble in my Tascam interface, I usually just plug in whatever I'm using into the front inputs, rather than leaving cables plugged in everywhere (my space is limited). It only takes a minute to hook things up and put stuff away when done.
 
True that, Mike. I think the channel 9 input on my 1800 will be the first thing to go, or maybe the Guitar/Line In switch right next to it. :laughings:
Mine isn't space, I just can't get to the back easily, so IF I ever want to change something back there, it will be a nuisance.
 
Thanks very much for all the replies, it's great to have such a friendly community. From what people have said so far, it seems a multi-input audio interface is the way to go. I am in the UK btw but I have looked at the Tascam 16x08 and it looks very affordable but with the majority of the inputs being on the rear, it could be a little awkward to connect things up. I've also seen the Focusrite 18i20, 18i8 (similar price to the Tascam) and 18i6 AI's. I think the 18i8 is the closest to what I have now in terms of most of the inputs being at the front and a similar size, plus it has MIDI in/out which could be useful for my Microkorg. I have a small Korg Microkey for use with my computer and iPad as a MIDI interface (I don't really have room for a big keyboard).

You're right BroKen, I don't use S/PDIF and I even use my speakers sparingly due to living in a flat/apartment with neighbours above and next door so I don't want to disturb them and tend to mainly use my headphones. Also, the RME Fireface 802 you mentioned is over my budget really, probably about 3x as much lol. When you said I could use some of the outputs and inputs for my Zoom effects pedal in the same way I have it hooked up to my mixer now, how would that work as an example? Would I output from one of the audio interface's line outputs to the Zoom's guitar input and then output from the Zoom's outputs back into the audio interface's inputs? The Zoom G3X also has a balanced out that looks like the 3 prongs of a mic and has a pre/post switch, could I use this to output the Zoom back into say the Focusrite's mic input? I know most people probably just connect a guitar direct to an audio interface and then use VST's etc to play it through but the Zoom G3 has some good sounds on it that I have tweaked and I like to use the looper, some of my synths sound great through it.

I am leaning towards the Focusrite 18i8 (or 18i20) as it looks like it will give me all the inputs I'll need and is still a small size. I can then keep my Tascam mixer for live use as it's a good little retro mixer and works great (although the stereo channels 5 and 6 don't seem to work properly but I can't find anyone that repairs these old Tascam's in the UK or near me).

Thanks very much for the advice, it's definitely helped me focus on what I need and know exactly what to look for.
 
:) That's what we're here for.
AFA hooking up the pedal, yes, exactly like you said and then use your DAW aux sends and returns to the hardware outs/ins to utilize in the box (reamp) or just use the effect as is if you're that brave.
 
Thanks very much. I suppose it would be better to use the DAW's sends and returns as I'll have control over which inputs the pedal will effect. Presumably if I just use the effect as is then it will apply any effects to everything that is connected to the audio interface's inputs? I'll have to see if Mixcraft has a send/return feature to hardware in/out and if not then I'll look into other DAW's but as I'm used to Mixcraft, I'd rather stick with that. I know most people tend to use Cubase, Logic and Ableton etc (especially for electronic music) but those are quite expensive and seem rather impenetrable for beginners to use.
 
I actually meant leaving it out and using it as you do now. By brave, I mean being stuck with the sound you do during the recording instead of re-amping.
 
Oh I see. Lol, then I suppose I'm in the brave (or stupid) category as that's kind of what I do now. I have gotten used to using the mixer to get all the individual channels and pedal's volumes balanced and then record direct into Mixcraft on one track. For example, I might have my Volca Beats and Monotribe connected together and then going into a channel on the mixer, then on another mixer channel I'll have my guitar and on another I'll have the Microkorg. I'll start the Beats and Monotribe off which will have a drum pattern programmed in already and then play different parts live with my guitar and Microkorg, using the pedal's looper to record a loop of either a guitar part or a synth part (or both). I prefer to improvise a lot but I have recorder separate tracks before and made music up in a more structured form. It depends what I can be bothered doing at the time.

That's why I like to have lots of my instruments connected at once as it suits my ad-hock style but thinking about it now, that's probably why I'm not getting the best sound quality lol. I think I'm trying to do what a whole band would do but as I'm on my own it's hard to play 3 things at once!

Anyway, thanks again.
 
Just like to say that as a "one man band" a multi-channel interface is a bit of a waste of money?

I shall trot out my boring reccy and suggest you at least look at the Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6. This gives you two, very low noise mic inputs but two further balanced line inputs that could take the mixer outs and leave your rig virtually as is. The interface also has MIDI and comes with Cubase so you could give that a shot? Probably the best DAW there is for MIDI work.

There are other 2 mic +2 line interfaces of course but none bar RME touch the KA6 for low latency AFAIK.

Jusafort!

Dave.
 
That does look like a good interface but I think my mixer is the weak link in my chain as it does produce a lot of noise and the two stereo input channels don't work properly, so I think continuing to use that with any AI will still produce negative results. Out of interest do you use a mixer with your Komplete Audio 6 and if so, which one?

I've always wondered how people record multiple inputs with an audio interface and/or a mixer and whether they record guitar pedal effects or just use software VST's. Ideally as I've said, I'd like to continue to use my Zoom pedal as an overall multi-effect and looper for everything I plug into any audio interface or mixer but still have individually control over which channels specifically use the pedal as oppose to it being applied to all channels all the time.

As for MIDI, I don't use this a great deal, I mostly work with live audio or samples/field recordings I record myself. I have used MIDI in as far as to use VSTi's but I haven't ventured into using it to control the clock of an instrument and to sync things up and that sort of thing. I know I probably should do as nearly everything uses MIDI these days but I don't really know how to get started or how to use it together with everything I have. I know there are lots of tutorials and information sources out there for me to read up on but tbh I find things much easier if someone either physically shows me or to watch a video on YouTube and try and copy it. I think my brain shuts down at the sight of a manual and a lot of them already assume you know what you're doing or understand a lot of the terminology they use.

Anyway, I'm waffling. Thanks for suggestion and I'll keep it on my list of AI's to look into.
 
Ah! I had assumed the mixer's noise problems were confined to the mic channels which the KA6 would fix. If the line inputs are also noisy and some not working maybe time to consign it to doorstop duty?

I don't use the KA6 with a mixer. I bought the AI originally to get 4 tracks in and out of a Teac A3440 OR machine for my musical son so he could have his "tape sound" but also have all the benefits of computer jiggery-pokery. He has however buggered off to France before I got that rigged. I am no musician, just a tech that tinkers!

I (we!) do have a mixer, a rather nice Allen and Heath ZED10FX but that feeds a 2496 soundcard (well one in each of 2 computers in fact), it is just the way our system has developed over some ten years. One day I hope to take the mixer and son and KA6 to the club he plays in and make some recordings, tends to be jazz and reggae. It is possible to "kludge" the ZED 10 to produce 4 discrete outputs so 4 tracks would give us greater flexibility later.

I know it is the "fashion" and received wisdom to use an AI these days but a good mixer into a good converter (not the hissy-fit 16bit USB mixers!) is a very powerful and flexible setup, especially if you have some outboard gear. Mixers have pan and usually at least 3 band EQ. The Z has HPF on each mic channel. Wider gain range on the mic amps, AUX and often FX sends.....And if you are USED to working with a mixer??? The ZED10 does not have inserts but many decent but good value mixers do.

MIDI: Not done a great deal with it musically (see above!) but am fascinated by it as a technician. One thing, don't fear it, just plug stuff up and have a go! The kit might go apeshitnoisy but you can do no damage.

NOW! Who's waffling??

Dave.
 
Wow, now you've got me thinking! I'm not sure what's going on with my Tascam mixer, it behaves very strangely (or uniquely?). When I have the inputs on my Focusrite AI set to line (there is a line/instrument switch for each input) then I don't get any noise (that's when using either of the mixer's line or mic inputs) but I do get lower volume, however when I switch the AI's input to instrument then noise is introduced but a much higher volume (usually causing clipping despite not touching the Focusrite's gain knobs and them being set to a low position). For example, I am recording a track at the moment and have my Korg Volca Beats connected to the mic input of channel 2 on my mixer and my Microkorgf connected to the line input of channel 3. When using the line switch on the AI, I get no noise from the mixer but a low volume but then if I switch to instrument then I get high volume and lots of noise.

I prefer the line setting for the Focusrite to reduce noise as I can easily adjust volume levels either with my individual instruments or on the mixer or even in my DAW etc. Another weird thing with my mixer is the two stereo channels don't work properly (channels 5 and 6 when used together create stereo). The mic inputs for these channels don't work at all, no sound comes through but when I use the line input for each one (which is labelled as phono on the mixer), then I can hear the sound but at a low volume with lots of noise and distortion, at any volume level set on the mixer. I was hoping to hook up my turntable to these channels but the quality is so bad I don't bother.

So to sum it all up, channels 1-4 are fine, 5-6 are half-working/poor quality and overall there are general noise issues. I think that's why it's time for a new mixer or AI to take over the job of the mixer.
 
"I think that's why it's time for a new mixer or AI to take over the job of the mixer. "

Aye! There's the rub! Which is it to be? Seems to me you need a new mixer anyway? The addition of the KA6 will double the track count over the Scarlet (and you still have S/PDIF to go if a suitable bit of kit comes up? I any case you can get line analogue to S/PDIF converters) .

The Tascam 1800 (say) is a quick solution but since you cannot play all the connected instruments at once it devolves to a fancy mixer but without the facilities I mentioned that a mixer would afford.

Toughie! One way to decide I guess is just price up both routes and go cheapest? Whichever way you jump, with the gear so far mentioned the sound quality will not suffer.

Dave.
 
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