Cloning & backup

Eleanor Fudd

Eleanor Fudd

Member
The search function didn't yield anything for my search, so:

I hate to admit it, but I have never backed up much. I have done a bit, but only for particular files and/or programmes. I now have music and other files which keep me awake at night - thinking about losing them. So, I need some advice.

1) Can you clone a drive and then use that drive as a backup, by updating (backing it up) nightly? If so, how?

2) It seems odd to me that you can clone an entire drive and have the clone work, as it may contain Windows and any number of programmes which do not like being copied, so to speak. For example, if your clone contains Windows and you use the drive on another computer, have you not just copied Windows against copyright law? (I don't want to start a debate on the morality of copyright law or people who don't like it, it's a technical question.)

3) Which software do you recommend for cloning and/or backup?

I use Windows 7.



Thanks very much
 
I'm no good at the Operating System level, others will chime in no doubt. You can image the C' to get back if I understand it if the OS and drive are intact.
B/U of data/files is easy as copy/save as.
 
I recently had a really unfortunate experience. My recording drive and the other backup drive I used failed at almost exactly the same time.

I use Carbonite now to back up my files after every session. $100 a year is better than the 80+ hours I had to spend re-recording the projects I lost because of drive failure.

I suppose it is rare to have two drives fail simultaneously, but if you are serious about this. Back up, back up, and then back that back up up. :)

I also had a system drive fail once, and now I run my OS and programs in RAID1. Two drives are running OS and programs as duplicates so that I do not have to reinstall them when one of them fails (28+ hours to reinstall my software).

They always fail. It just a guessing game as to when it will happen.
 
I just back up to extra drives...both internal and external.

What pissed me off tonight, I was editing some tracks, worked for about two hours, and I always have my auto-backup running, set to 5 minutes, so that way there's a recent safety no matter what....but the I was moving too fast, and the DAW locked up on me, and instead of just letting alone for at least 5 minutes (the auto-backup would have run anyway)...like an idiot I go and reboot right away, which managed to screw up the auto-backup file, and of course, the primary file wasn't saved since I started working...
...so two hours down the drain.
Thats' what I get for not being patient when the DAW locked up on me. :facepalm:

Other than that...I'm pretty anal about backups and backups and then safety backup. :D
 
Backup to an external USB drive, using allwaysync, in my case manually, I don't use the auto. It will also do it across a network, and just duplicate your files on another machine. It's simple and not let me down in years - you can configure it simply to backup everything, or as in my case for my video and audio work, just files that have changed.
 
jimmys69 said:
... I also had a system drive fail once, and now I run my OS and programs in RAID1. Two drives are running OS and programs as duplicates so that I do not have to reinstall them when one of them fails (28+ hours to reinstall my software).

They always fail. It just a guessing game as to when it will happen.
Click to expand...

It's time for me to start with a fresh 'C and OS. I need a tech and that's a very interesting setup!
 
Well...you CAN always just do an image of a fully installed OS drive with all the apps....and when/if it fails, just pop in a new drive (that you happen to already have for this kind of situation) and then drop the image on it.
It's like maybe 30 minutes to an hour....unless you're running an OS drive that's a few TBs....but even then, the imaging is faster than reinstalling everything.

The RAID approach that Jimmy uses is king for ZERO downtime, and it's a staple of server setups...but you still end up having to drop a new drive in and then the RAID system pretty much does the same thing as imaging a new drive...it will copy over all your files to the new drive.

Symantec Ghost is what I use for imaging.
 
I have a two-prong approach; 1) image the C drive and 2) backup important files from my data drive to an external drive. My external drive is a NAS with RAID-Something mirrored drives for redundancy.

Imaging the C Drive is the best thing ever. Without it, you would have to reload your o/s and reload all the programs again if you were to lose your c drive. What a pain in the ass that is. Some programs have a limited number of times you can load it; like Toontrack stuff. When you image the c drive, all the windows registrations and loaded software are captured. If your c drive dies, no need to hunt down product keys, download updates, or re-register programs, just put the image on a new drive and keep on going. I've lost my c drive before and while it was inconvenient to go to the store to buy another drive, it was a non-event to restore a recent image.

For the imaging software, I use a freeware called DriveImage XML. No bloatware and it is very basic and to the point. It's perfect for imaging drives and I recommend it to my customers who are stupid enough not to have their own data backup scheme (you'd be surprised how many major tech companies out there aren't backing up their computers.) I'll image about every 6 months, so whatever program I loaded up, or significant change I made, since the last image would be lost if I lost my c drive. I'm okay with that.

For data files, I've just been dragging to my NAS drive once a week, but I might get something more automated. I keep my data files on a separate hard drive from the o/s.
 
Have been using Memeo AutoSync for years. Point to a directory, point to a backup directory on another drive, start the sync. It automatically puts every change you do on the first drive to the backup in the background. Great unless you want a file back you just deleted (it mirrors that,too). But there's other ways around that bit...

You can set your computer to auto backup at set intervals as well (using whatever backup program you like). Pick a time when you're never on the computer (I have mine set for 1 am on Saturday) and then leave the computer on when the backup does it's thing.
 
I back up everything, then often back up the back up if it's an important project. The set up for the PC is, C drive: Operating system and installed software only, drive F: Audio Files and uninstalled software files, NAS box on ethernet (4 drives, 2 running tandem at all times) with all audio files and uninstalled software files, USB hard drive Audio files (is not kept at the studio but travels with me, off site, in my lap top bag).

I also have a clone of the drive that has the operating system and software, this has saved me more then once as an operating system drive problem can stop a session, with the clone 2 mins to swap drives and you are up and running.

On top of all this my multitrack recording system uses SCSI drives, have a rack out drive for each client, plus a rack out backup drive that is not kept at the studio but travels with me off site.

Final work, back up then back up again, drives are cheap, work time is not.

Alan.
 
One of my backup drives came with one of those imaging programs, but it didn't work when I lost a hard drive, the image file wouldn't copy into the new drive. So now I back up files using copy/paste to two USB drives. Not often enough.:rolleyes:
 
Yes, and the problem with AutoSync is pretty much that when something goes on with the files on either drive, it happens to both. It's made more for having multiple people work on the same file and keep all the changes. But in case of catastrophic fail of the drive, there is a backup of everything you told it to sync.
I keep all my project folders and libraries and soundfonts and etc. under a parent directory called "\media", and sync that directory to an external USB drive. Then my weekly backups are on a third drive. Not much chance of losing anything, but there's always a chance. Just how life is. There is no "foolproof" system.
 
Since were on the subject..... I was reading about the product Macrium Reflect, and in its list of features, I read: ""Directly copy one hard disk to another without creating an image file first.""

I guess I don't know what an image is. Could someone please explain the differences between a copy, a clone, and an image, of a hard drive?

Thank you.
 
Eleanor, you asked about backup but seems like your referring to disk duplication more than backup. I could write pages on the millions of ways to back up and lot of it depends on what you want to back up. If its just your data, then by all means at least run down to Walgreens and get a couple USB thumbdrives and copy your important data (pics, audio, projects, etc) onto the USB drives so you are at less risk of losing everything. If its an OS level back (you must replace the hard drive and restore everything) that can be a more complex conversation, one you should really discuss with a local reputable computer company. However, I will tell you I use Crashplan, which is a free client to install and use, if you do not sign up for their cloud storage. Its a bit techie to setup if you choose to use it yourself with out their cloud based storage, but, it can save your day should you ditch the whole drive. As I said, the computer backup conversation is as wide as it is deep. In just glancing at your initial post, I would highly recommend you at least get your data copied onto a thumbdrive or external USB disk, etc.
Cloning a disk is not a great 'backup', that is considered a DR or disaster recovery option. It will not yield you a way to easily restore files. Lets assume for a second you have Windows Vista or higher, there is a built in Windows backup utility which can not only backup files but also your 'Windows' installation which includes the registry files that makes your computer, well, your computer. There is a trick to using any OS based backup, that is, you have to be able to re-install the OS enough to run the backup utility to then point to your backup and perform a restore.
Cloning is something you do to copy, byte for byte, sector by sector, a disk for the purpose of being able to recover a failed hard drive for example. Its only as current as the last 'clone' you made and typically is an all-or-nothing approach. Not really a backup as we think of restoring a file we accidentally deleted, more like your entire hard disk failed. Cloning can also be quite time consuming and also takes a little techie wizardry sometimes to pull off. If you want to check out a free cloning solution, feel free to read up on Microsoft's ImageX (GImageX) and Sysprep. Best of luck.
 
Thanks, cecerre.............. but............. I was hoping that there was a two-step solution: copy/clone/image the drive, and then incrementally tack little bits on as you back up to it. I was thinking of "recover from disaster" as being the only reason to back up, and that it would be likely that you have to restore everything on the drive or nothing. Of course, if you have various data on various drives, I suppose it unlikely that they would all crash and die at once I would think that it would not be hard to write a script which would back up incrementally to a clone/copy/image rather than just backing up into a folder.

I was looking at Macrium. Would that not cover both? Macrium Software
 
For backup there is no need to clone, just copy the files you want to backup across to another drive. The time to use a clone is to have a backup of the software drive with the installed programs on it, which is why I always suggest that the software drive does no have project audio files on it.

By having a clone of the software drive, if you have a drive failure you can swap the drives out and be up and running again quickly.

Alan.
 
witzendoz said:
For backup there is no need to clone, just copy the files you want to backup across to another drive. The time to use a clone is to have a backup of the software drive with the installed programs on it, which is why I always suggest that the software drive does no have project audio files on it.

By having a clone of the software drive, if you have a drive failure you can swap the drives out and be up and running again quickly.

Alan.
Click to expand...

:confused:

Yes, the clone is a backup of the more-or-less permanent files - programmes, etc. - and the data files are a different thing in the they change minute by minute. Why not have the clone include the data files and have those data files backed up at the end of the day... or session.. or whenever.... sitting on the clone in the same place they sit on the C; drive? If your hard drive melts, remove it, insert clone drive, ready to go. (I'm sure there's some reason for not doing this, but I don't see it yet.)
 
A clone is an exact copy of the drive. Another drive that is the exact same drive or possibly an exact image that can be placed on the same or a different drive should the drive fail. The only reason to update or upgrade that drive would be if you update or upgrade the original.
A copy (the way I use it) is using software to constantly update files in multiple locations (i.e. synchronize). So that multiple people can work on copies and all the changes appear on everyone's copy.
A backup is selected files (or entire directories/drives) in an instant image that needs updated when files change.

My terminology, Your Mileage May Vary.
 
jimmys69 said:
I recently had a really unfortunate experience. My recording drive and the other backup drive I used failed at almost exactly the same time.

I use Carbonite now to back up my files after every session. $100 a year is better than the 80+ hours I had to spend re-recording the projects I lost because of drive failure.

I suppose it is rare to have two drives fail simultaneously, but if you are serious about this. Back up, back up, and then back that back up up. :)

I also had a system drive fail once, and now I run my OS and programs in RAID1. Two drives are running OS and programs as duplicates so that I do not have to reinstall them when one of them fails (28+ hours to reinstall my software).

They always fail. It just a guessing game as to when it will happen.
Click to expand...

I am a prof of comp sci. I agree with the above. In my studio, I invest in redundancy ant it pays off. I have a mirrored drive (Raid1), use Smart Sync Pro to keep backups to a local Seagate USB 3.o drive, and Carbonite for an off-site backup.

This works very well for me. I pause SSP and Carbonite when I record.
 
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