Budget USB interface also for general use? (headphone output power)

[jimmys69]

I think I'll try disconnecting the hard drive from that controller and see if it works then.

Looks like the USB3 on my mobo is handled through two Etron EJ168 chips. Don't know if those have a reputation of being problematic, but it says something that they're separate chips (no special drivers for them either, at least not on the mobo support site). Newer hardware has USB3 built in the main chipset, right?

I think we may have a misunderstanding here. The driver for the USB controller isn't or wasn't my issue. But the driver for the interface had to be installed on a particular controller. In other words during the install, the interface had to be disconnected until the driver installer asked for it to be connected. Then the driver was installed on the controller it was plugged into. If I put the USB connection into a different usb port, it isn't recognized. Only the one it was installed with.

 

[ecc83]

I think we may have a misunderstanding here. The driver for the USB controller isn't or wasn't my issue. But the driver for the interface had to be installed on a particular controller. In other words during the install, the interface had to be disconnected until the driver installer asked for it to be connected. Then the driver was installed on the controller it was plugged into. If I put the USB connection into a different usb port, it isn't recognized. Only the one it was installed with.

Oh! THAT old ***t Jim! You would have thought the latest AIs would have that sorted by now? Don't like to keep banging on about it but...I have installed the drivers for my KA6 just once (did an update about a year ago) and the AI runs faultlessly on any of the 3 USB ports on this HP laptop, one of which is USB 3.0. It also runs without any prompting on any of 2 desktops and another rather old laptop. One of the DTs has a USB PCIe card in it with a 3.0 HDD attached, will try the KA6 in that later but I am sure I have done that in the past.

Mind you, having a dedicated USB 3.0 PCIe card is not a bad idea? I would get one with a low port count, 4 maximum but make sure it has the option to plug in extra power from the loom.

I am not surprised the Behringer has less than stellar drivers. My old, buggered BCA2000 was dire in the driver dpmnt. Odd really since their X32 mixer seems great, can't be the same software bods!

Dave.

 

[spitzer]

I think we may have a misunderstanding here. The driver for the USB controller isn't or wasn't my issue. But the driver for the interface had to be installed on a particular controller. In other words during the install, the interface had to be disconnected until the driver installer asked for it to be connected. Then the driver was installed on the controller it was plugged into. If I put the USB connection into a different usb port, it isn't recognized. Only the one it was installed with.

No misunderstanding. To quote your earlier post, you said:

... Though I have found that if anything else is connected to it, shit goes haywire.

That was the main thing, not drivers.

I am not surprised the Behringer has less than stellar drivers.

You misunderstood, the problem is not the Behringer drivers. Like I said, the "Berry" works perfectly with an ASIO buffer size of 256 and at 96 kHz (2.7 ms latency). No dropouts. Just now, I tried recording from the analog inputs with the buffer size at 512 and also at 24 bits/96 kHz. No dropouts, no glitches, and I've been changing it to different USB (USB2) ports constantly. From what my little googling has shown, at least Focusrite has the exact same problem: the devices are USB2 spec and do not work with some USB3 controllers.

The problem I was referring to is that there might be a problem with the USB3 controllers on my mobo. Those controllers might be of the abovementioned sort that are for some reason incompatible, for one thing they are I guess 5+ years old. Any particular drivers for them don't seem to exist.

More on the unit itself, recording DI electric guitar works and sounds... fine I guess, cannot do a direct comparison to something else here.
I am quite confused as to why at least that one review said that these Midas preams are 'FAR superior to ADA8000'. So far I haven't noticed anything that outstanding. I actually measured the noise floor of (the left channel of) this thing. Nothing connected, level switch at line and pad switch up. Noise floor at 0% gain: -86 dB. At 50% gain: -83 dB. At 100% gain: -56 dB. * "Ultra-quiet"? On the other hand, the inputs seem hot-hot-hot. Connecting my guitar I HAD to use the pad and keep the gain very low.

* It came to mind that the HA400 is sitting right on top of the UMC, metal to metal (I know they're grounded but anyway)... possibly a source of extra interference?

 

[jimmys69]

Oh! THAT old ***t Jim! You would have thought the latest AIs would have that sorted by now? Don't like to keep banging on about it but...I have installed the drivers for my KA6 just once (did an update about a year ago) and the AI runs faultlessly on any of the 3 USB ports on this HP laptop, one of which is USB 3.0. It also runs without any prompting on any of 2 desktops and another rather old laptop. One of the DTs has a USB PCIe card in it with a 3.0 HDD attached, will try the KA6 in that later but I am sure I have done that in the past.

Mind you, having a dedicated USB 3.0 PCIe card is not a bad idea? I would get one with a low port count, 4 maximum but make sure it has the option to plug in extra power from the loom.

I am not surprised the Behringer has less than stellar drivers. My old, buggered BCA2000 was dire in the driver dpmnt. Odd really since their X32 mixer seems great, can't be the same software bods!

Dave.

Yeah, you would think so. But I have two UR824's and a Behri 8000 that I don't hardly ever use.

Every interface is different and it is awesome how the drivers work for your KA6, but that is not the way it works for others. Sad it be.

BTW, same driver for the UR22. Just saying.

 

[jimmys69]

No misunderstanding. To quote your earlier post, you said: That was the main thing, not drivers.



You misunderstood, the problem is not the Behringer drivers. Like I said, the "Berry" works perfectly with an ASIO buffer size of 256 and at 96 kHz (2.7 ms latency). No dropouts. Just now, I tried recording from the analog inputs with the buffer size at 512 and also at 24 bits/96 kHz. No dropouts, no glitches, and I've been changing it to different USB (USB2) ports constantly. From what my little googling has shown, at least Focusrite has the exact same problem: the devices are USB2 spec and do not work with some USB3 controllers.

The problem I was referring to is that there might be a problem with the USB3 controllers on my mobo. Those controllers might be of the abovementioned sort that are for some reason incompatible, for one thing they are I guess 5+ years old. Any particular drivers for them don't seem to exist.

More on the unit itself, recording DI electric guitar works and sounds... fine I guess, cannot do a direct comparison to something else here.
I am quite confused as to why at least that one review said that these Midas preams are 'FAR superior to ADA8000'. So far I haven't noticed anything that outstanding. I actually measured the noise floor of (the left channel of) this thing. Nothing connected, level switch at line and pad switch up. Noise floor at 0% gain: -86 dB. At 50% gain: -83 dB. At 100% gain: -56 dB. * "Ultra-quiet"? On the other hand, the inputs seem hot-hot-hot. Connecting my guitar I HAD to use the pad and keep the gain very low.

* It came to mind that the HA400 is sitting right on top of the UMC, metal to metal (I know they're grounded but anyway)... possibly a source of extra interference?

I hope this means you have things sorted as far as connection with interface?

I am not sure if the location of the headphone preamp would be an issue. Elephant in the room says move it. lol! Sorry, I had to.

And you may not notice a difference in preamp sound quality with one input. You may notice later after multiple tracks that the noise floor will be more apparent. Ecc83 will make that more clear in a technical way. I have learned from my experience that supposed clean preamps are not so clean when multiple tracks are mixed together. That is a shit way to describe it, but when the noise floor of multiple channels is combined, you start to hear it.

 

[ecc83]

I have recently (5mins) been told that there are two separate controllers for a USB 3.0 port.
When you plug in a 2.0 cable, THAT controller goes to work. Plug in a 3.0 cable and 'tother gets out of bed.

So, in theory the Berry SHOULD work on a '3.0' port since the cable tells it to do so. Using the same port for a hard drive should not, if the above obtains, cause any issues since it would be handled by the USB 3.0 controller.

TBH, although they make a lot of fairly good, very well priced gear, I would suspect Behringer to be the fly in this particular emolument. There is also the claim, by some, that the UMC range are an electronic rip of the Focusrtite 2i4 etc? Focusrite ALSO do not have a very good driver record!

Jimmy? Sorry no, I cannot explain your 'noise build up' issue. I have to say, back in the day, even good pre amps were pretty noisy (but better than the tape/vinyl/FM that carried them) and no such effect was commented on then? Maybe we have been spoiled by -100dBFS and better noise floors?

Forgot (no brekkie yet!) Although IN THEORY doubling the sample rate halves latency it also makes the CPU work twice as hard so, AFAIK the benefit for latency is small (and the files huge!)


Dave.

 

[spitzer]

I hope this means you have things sorted as far as connection with interface?

Well, no, or sort of. It's fine as long as it's connected to an USB2 port, and there are plenty of those on this mobo.

I have recently (5mins) been told that there are two separate controllers for a USB 3.0 port.
When you plug in a 2.0 cable, THAT controller goes to work. Plug in a 3.0 cable and 'tother gets out of bed.

Wait. Who told you that?

There are both USB2 and USB3 ports on my motherboard. The USB2 ports are controlled by one chip, the USB3 ports are controlled by another, different chip (more precisely two of them, for a total of 4 USB3 ports).

So, in theory the Berry SHOULD work on a '3.0' port since the cable tells it to do so. Using the same port for a hard drive should not, if the above obtains, cause any issues since it would be handled by the USB 3.0 controller.

Exactly. BUT since there are reports that some USB3 controllers are for whatever reason not fully backward compatible, there's this problem here. I suspect the USB3 chips on this mobo might unfortunately be those ones.
I'll try the interface with a different computer altogether at some point and see if I it works on its USB3 port.

BTW, Behringer's customer service actually looks to be at least half way decent. At least one of their employees actually is ON their support forum and regularly answers questions, helps people work out stuff that doesn't work. I've even seen him on another audio forum commenting on something related to Behringer stuff.
That's a good sign since some tech companies (not necessarily audio) don't even HAVE forums or anything similar, don't answer emails, phone calls etc... It seems like the stories of Behringer upping their game are true.

Forgot (no brekkie yet!) Although IN THEORY doubling the sample rate halves latency it also makes the CPU work twice as hard so, AFAIK the benefit for latency is small (and the files huge!)

I probably won't be recording audio at more than 48k. I was testing a VST synth, controlled through MIDI in real-time, in which case latency is a huge factor. I've never had anything capable of more than 48 kHz before and I could have also been taxing the CPU on purpose to see that everything works just fine (maybe a little jab at the guys on the other thread who insist you need a new top-shelf Ryzen or an i7 to work with audio? )

 

[DebErney]

For the last several months I have been using a Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 and have been very happy with it. Configured easily, doesn’t drop out. 2 headphone monitor out, two TR monitor out. Sound is great. I did a review on it as well as several different videos with some things to think about with USB recording that may help you out. YouTube

 

[Alton42]

Another choice

You should look into the Behringer Xenyx 302 USB. Mic w/phantom pwr, line/usb in, 2-track in, phone out/mix switches, eq and pan. Priced $49.99 most places. Can be found for less.

Greets

I've been looking for a small interface for my home computer, mainly to record electric guitar. So far I have on my list Steinberg UR22 mk2, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 gen2, Presonus Audiobox USB 96 and... Behringer UMC202HD. They are in the same price range and externally (meaning "it looks like") they have everything I need.

All the reviews I've found have mostly covered things like the input preamps and such. However since I would ideally like for this interface to also replace my other (integrated and PCI) soundcards for all general use (LISTENING) I'm also interested in the outputs and especially the headphone jack, since I almost exclusively use headphones.

I've found specs for some of those interfaces but they are hard to interpret, some have the figures expressed with different names or in different units etc. For example I found a document that said the UR22 outputs 3.8 mW x 2 "nominal" and 6x2 "maximum" power from it's headphone output. What does that even mean? How can I figure out whether that is enough to drive my headphones? I need output power at least equal to my Asus Xonar (which is supposed to have some kind of an integrated headphone amp) that specifies an output power of 1 Vrms/3Vp-p with the hp impedance only being described as "optimized for 32-150 Ohm". From what I have tested by the way, the volume level is pretty much identical to that of the integrated Realtek 889. The headphones I currently mostly use are AKG K182s, I also have a pair of DT770s (80 Ohm).

With regard to the inputs I mainly just need a nice, clean signal. The Realtek is horrible, the Xonar is quite good for recording but there are other big problems with both of them, mainly the lack of direct monitoring. My larger setup not at home is built around an ADA8000 and the sound quality is plenty good enough for me so if the UMC202HD mic/line pre's are of similar quality, I would be happy with that. That small Behringer has more features than the others and who knows, maybe at some point I would realize I actually would have wanted those pad switches or something.

Thoughts? Recommendations? Which is the most stable, has the best drivers? Although again, emphasis on the headphone output power.

 

[jimmys69]

You should look into the Behringer Xenyx 302 USB. Mic w/phantom pwr, line/usb in, 2-track in, phone out/mix switches, eq and pan. Priced $49.99 most places. Can be found for less.

Sorry man but I would give a solid NO for this recommendation.

 

[spitzer]

I cannot be certain, but I would guess this UMC is clearly better than that Xenyx mixer. This one was even about $25 more expensive!

Anyway, I got the chance to try the device on another computer, a relatively new laptop that has only one USB2 port, with the rest being USB3. I installed drivers with it plugged in a certain port, listened carefully to some music and did not hear any crackles or such. Perfect clarity. Then I switched it to another USB port, listened carefully to some music and heard no crackles or such. Perfect clarity. A bit of arithmetic and logic will tell you the truth. The device DID work flawlessly connected to a USB3 port there. If I can get it to work on yet another computer on a USB3 port, I'll be quite completely convinced that the device generally DOES work on USB3 ports, and the only problem is my current motherboard and it's ad-hoc buggy USB3 chips.

 

[jimmys69]

I cannot be certain, but I would guess this UMC is clearly better than that Xenyx mixer. This one was even about $25 more expensive!

Anyway, I got the chance to try the device on another computer, a relatively new laptop that has only one USB2 port, with the rest being USB3. I installed drivers with it plugged in a certain port, listened carefully to some music and did not hear any crackles or such. Perfect clarity. Then I switched it to another USB port, listened carefully to some music and heard no crackles or such. Perfect clarity. A bit of arithmetic and logic will tell you the truth. The device DID work flawlessly connected to a USB3 port there. If I can get it to work on yet another computer on a USB3 port, I'll be quite completely convinced that the device generally DOES work on USB3 ports, and the only problem is my current motherboard and it's ad-hoc buggy USB3 chips.

I have had issues with Steinberg drivers working on some systems. In fact it has been two years and Steinberg has not fixed the issue.

I built a new PC from scratch with the supposed best new mobo at the time. ASRock Z97 Extreme 4. Dropouts constantly with the UR824. I had tech support and money to pay someone to figure it out. Ended up with a ASUS mobo and all works as it should.

Sometimes shit just doesn't work with some hardware/drivers/software. But that what we have to deal with...

 

[spitzer]

It is odd with computers, and other technology. The specs for things are there, how hard can it be to make something that simply conforms to them? Seemingly very.

BTW you mentioning Steinberg reminded me of the CI1 I got for that friend some time back. When I was testing it at home before I passed it along, I remember having similar problems (or "features" I guess) with it that I'm having now. When it worked it worked, but making it work wasn't the greatest thing.

One of my main concerns originally was basically "can I pull out my sound card, disable the integrated one and only use this interface?" It seems the answer is: sort of, yes and no. Don't know about the rest, but these two interfaces have had small annoying things like if you have two audio apps running,
one of them is not going to be able to output sound. OR a specific app won't be able to output sound under certain circumstances. OR you need to restart your DAW several times before the ins/outs are configured correctly, and from then on it works like a charm.
These things are not a problem with a system designed and used only for recording, but here at home I do a lot of other stuff with the computer. The interface isn't like a regular soundcard, which mostly just always work regardless of whether you're listening to music, watching video, watching streaming video, playing games etc. You'll never have it all. I guess I'll find out after some testing whether this thing is close enough and does what I need.

 

[jimmys69]

It is odd with computers, and other technology. The specs for things are there, how hard can it be to make something that simply conforms to them? Seemingly very.

Well that is a crap-shoot with PC's. So many manufactures, and so many products. The price paid with PC's is that it is cheaper than Mac stuff. You can build a PC with double the power at half the price, if you get it right.

But then the limitations of Mac computers are starting to be an issue as well.

There is really no easy answer for those who just want a stable system for recording as far as I know. Protools lists specs for compatible computer setups but you may as well shop at Whole Foods (whole paycheck). Throwing away money in my personal opinion.

 

[ecc83]

SOS Forum • Some AIs not working with USB 3.0?

A comment on the AI/USB 2/3.0 SNAFU. Since it seems it is the OLDER machines with 3.0 ports that give the trouble I a little surprised this g6, HP i3 laptop works as well as it does (got to be 5 yrs old) but then I have only tried the KA6 on USB 3.0 Must move A and dig out the 8i6.

Dave.

 

[jimmys69]

It does seem to be a crapshoot as to what will work every time.

It has been I believe 6 years that I have ran USB 2 interfaces via USB 3 controllers. I think they have changed a bit over the years. USB 3.1 and 3.2. Not sure where it is at now.

Tascam US1641, Tascam US 1800, and the last 4 years using Steinberg UR824's. I do not think USB 3 was around when I first started with the Lexicon Alpha.

None of which play nice with another streaming device such as a external HDD. Never use the same hub for anything but the interface is key from my experience.