Budget USB interface also for general use? (headphone output power)

Yes, repeating myself here, but ultimately I'm just going have to guess, try something and see if it works. However, it definitely doesn't hurt to look at specs and other theoretical things, sort of PLAN it all a little bit wouldn't you agree?

Concerning my listening levels. If the specs and my understanding are even close to correct, currently my computer outputs something like a maximum of 1 Volt into my headphones (32 Ohm, 112 dB at 1V). That would mean the absolute maximum level I'm getting is around that figure: 112 decibels.
Please do correct me if I overlooked or misunderstood something there. Also, I think I already mentioned this but I don't want universally "loud, loud, loud" but I would like some headroom. Listening to mainstream stuff I can easily get too much volume out of this setup, but like also mentioned before I also listen to tracks that have very low average levels and there I NEED to be able to boost them handily.
 
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Yes, repeating myself here, but ultimately I'm just going have to guess, try something and see if it works. However, it definitely doesn't hurt to look at specs and other theoretical things, sort of PLAN it all a little bit wouldn't you agree?

Concerning my listening levels. If the specs and my understanding are even close to correct, currently my computer outputs something like a maximum of 1 Volt into my headphones (32 Ohm, 112 dB at 1V). That would mean the absolute maximum level I'm getting is around that figure: 112 decibels.
Please do correct me if I overlooked or misunderstood something there. Also, I think I already mentioned this but I don't want universally "loud, loud, loud" but I would like some headroom. Listening to mainstream stuff I can easily get too much volume out of this setup, but like also mentioned before I also listen to tracks that have very low average levels and there I NEED to be able to boost them handily.

Yes, your last statement is almost where we came in! When tracks are hitting -2dBFS+ there is generally no loudness problem with any AI or even laptop HP jacks. The problem is TRACKING levels at neg 18ish!

There is no way, as I understand things, to increase the drive to the headphone output IN THE DAW, (although more expensive AI's with internal DSP mixers probably can) .

So, your only solution is an external HP amp connected to the HP jack on the AI. Such an amp does not have to be used to deliver damaging levels, as you say, you just want to bring up lower level tracks.

It might well be that someone reading this knows of a budget AI that has 10dB or so of extra gain that can be inserted as required but I have had quite a few in the last 10 years and not found one*.

*Tho'but! I have a Behringer BCA2000 in the loft, buggered. The AI was in fact rather inspired and had many useful features and combined AI functions and many of those of a Monitor Controller (now THAT's an idea?) and I dare bet there was spare gain capacity in that unit's HP amps. Sad to say the drivers were ***t and reliability worse but WHEN it worked it was bloody good for £150!

Dave.
 
So, I went for (arguably) the greatest gamble here and ordered a UMC204HD (and amongst other stuff an HA400, I changed my mind after reading not one but two negative reviews of the MA400).

As I was going through all of those reviews I came across something interesting: a suggestion/speculation that the Behringer is in fact a de facto copy (same circuitry) of the equivalent Focusrite (2i4), just with different mic pre's. I looked at it myself a little bit and who knows... they do have the exact same in/out connectors and switches, and their listed specifications are pretty much identical.

I'll see and hear how that thing works when I get it.

One little thing I'd like an informed opinion on... regardless of what it will actually be connected into, the signal FROM the interfaces main out (2x 6.3 mm TRS) should be carried by proper 6.3 mm balanced cables and only converted at the very last point when and if needed, right? Examples... cheap "computer speakers" with only a 3.5 mm stereo jack: run the big TRS cables into a very short 2x 6.3 mm to stereo 3.5 mm y-cable. Connecting to something else (a mixer, more expensive powered monitors...) that actually has balanced inputs: use the same cables as is.
For the HA400, I'm also going to just run a 6.3 mm TRS from the interfaces headphone out and into the HA400's line in. In this latter case, the TRS cable is of course carrying two unbalanced signals, but the distance is so short it won't matter and... there IS no other way to do it.
Do those connections seem sensible to you guys?
 
So, I went for (arguably) the greatest gamble here and ordered a UMC204HD (and amongst other stuff an HA400, I changed my mind after reading not one but two negative reviews of the MA400).

After reading the specs as well as some reviews, I think you made a great choice. The I/Os on the back could come in handy for running hardware as well as the A/B monitoring capabilities, are a good thing to have for expansion down the road if needed. Great decision.
 
So, I went for (arguably) the greatest gamble here and ordered a UMC204HD (and amongst other stuff an HA400, I changed my mind after reading not one but two negative reviews of the MA400).

As I was going through all of those reviews I came across something interesting: a suggestion/speculation that the Behringer is in fact a de facto copy (same circuitry) of the equivalent Focusrite (2i4), just with different mic pre's. I looked at it myself a little bit and who knows... they do have the exact same in/out connectors and switches, and their listed specifications are pretty much identical.

I'll see and hear how that thing works when I get it.

One little thing I'd like an informed opinion on... regardless of what it will actually be connected into, the signal FROM the interfaces main out (2x 6.3 mm TRS) should be carried by proper 6.3 mm balanced cables and only converted at the very last point when and if needed, right? Examples... cheap "computer speakers" with only a 3.5 mm stereo jack: run the big TRS cables into a very short 2x 6.3 mm to stereo 3.5 mm y-cable. Connecting to something else (a mixer, more expensive powered monitors...) that actually has balanced inputs: use the same cables as is.
For the HA400, I'm also going to just run a 6.3 mm TRS from the interfaces headphone out and into the HA400's line in. In this latter case, the TRS cable is of course carrying two unbalanced signals, but the distance is so short it won't matter and... there IS no other way to do it.
Do those connections seem sensible to you guys?

If a balanced cable is not connected as balanced on both ends, its not balanced at all, so it makes no difference if you do it as you put, or just use TS cables and adapter.
 
Hmm... yes I realize now that it takes two to create an actually balanced connection. In any case, I was more focused on the cables themselves. I mean, I COULD do it the reverse way: connect a short y-cable to the interface and run a loooooong little 3.5 to 3.5 cable to the speakers. Surely that would be worse? *

Regarding those connections/cables, at least two things were clear factors: a) I figured that having the thicker, sturdier, better insulated cables carrying the signal would be less noisy and better in any case b) If i upgrade to something that has balanced inputs, I will still have those TRS cables.

*probably not an audible difference, but anyway
 
Regarding those connections/cables, at least two things were clear factors: a) I figured that having the thicker, sturdier, better insulated cables carrying the signal would be less noisy and better in any case b) If i upgrade to something that has balanced inputs, I will still have those TRS cables. *probably not an audible difference, but anyway

Your $80,000 studio is only as good as your $5.00 cable. Meaning, your cables are normally your weakest link and this is where most people will skimp. Hmmm, $39.00 for a Monster 3' 1/4 inch to 1/4 inch cable or $4.99 for a 6' cable from INeverHeardOfYoudotCom.
 
Hmm... yes I realize now that it takes two to create an actually balanced connection. In any case, I was more focused on the cables themselves. I mean, I COULD do it the reverse way: connect a short y-cable to the interface and run a loooooong little 3.5 to 3.5 cable to the speakers. Surely that would be worse? *

Regarding those connections/cables, at least two things were clear factors: a) I figured that having the thicker, sturdier, better insulated cables carrying the signal would be less noisy and better in any case b) If i upgrade to something that has balanced inputs, I will still have those TRS cables.

*probably not an audible difference, but anyway

Headphone amps run at SUCH a low impedance, usually < 100 Ohms that cable length is practically immaterial.

You want to buy good quality cables for reliability and longevity but nobody has ever proved an audible advantage twixt a $10 3mrt XLR cable and $100 one let alone the £1,000+ Russ Andrews shite.

Dave.
 
Could be interesting to see a test what kind of difference different quality and different type cables would make in reality. Speaking of tests, I was surprised to find that someone had actually TESTED this exact Behringer unit:

Budget DAC Review: behringer UMC204HD | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Behringer UMC-204HD headphone review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

Those tests concentrate on the output only but are nevertheless interesting. Especially the headphone-specific one: "I played one of my audiophile tracks and listened using my Z-series HP laptop in-built headphone out. Sound was good although at max volume, not deafening. I then switched to the Behringer. I had to turn up the volume on it to mid-position to get it to be louder than my laptop output. There, it provided a slight improvement in fidelity."

Noise floor at -130 dB with volume louder than a laptop at full volume and "better fidelity"... seems pretty good to me. Who cares about (listening) noise floor if it's at -100 dB or something else completely inaudible? Even -75 is not really THAT much noise. Horrible distortion at max volume but that doesn't surprise me. A test at 75% would have been more informative. I suspect that might be the same thing as the inputs on my ADA8000: no noise whatsoever at any gain levels except ~95-100%.
 
Headphone amps run at SUCH a low impedance, usually < 100 Ohms that cable length is practically immaterial.

You want to buy good quality cables for reliability and longevity but nobody has ever proved an audible advantage twixt a $10 3mrt XLR cable and $100 one let alone the £1,000+ Russ Andrews shite.

Dave.

I wasn't really referring to cable length, but thickness. The one that goes to my speakers now is about 4 mm measured from the outer edges. Cannot exactly be described as 'robust' or well-shielded from interference. If it was in an armwrestling contest with a guitar cable, I'm pretty sure the guitar cable would win.
 
I wasn't really referring to cable length, but thickness. The one that goes to my speakers now is about 4 mm measured from the outer edges. Cannot exactly be described as 'robust' or well-shielded from interference. If it was in an armwrestling contest with a guitar cable, I'm pretty sure the guitar cable would win.

For headphones cable thickness is also barely a consideration. 0.2mm sq, more than adequate.

Dave.
 
I wasn't really referring to cable length, but thickness. If it was in an armwrestling contest with a guitar cable, I'm pretty sure the guitar cable would win.

A little off topic, but check this out. Buy a pair of jumper cables from wal mart and cut them open. The wire is the size of your average desk top speakers cable. Go to your local welding shop and have them build the same length of jumper cables using number 1 gauge wire used for welding leads. You can jump a tractor trailer using these but if you tried this with the wal mart cables, it would simply melt them depending on how long the TT started was engaged. The morel of this story is, never skimp on your cables when it comes to producing professional audio.
 
A little off topic, but check this out. Buy a pair of jumper cables from wal mart and cut them open. The wire is the size of your average desk top speakers cable. Go to your local welding shop and have them build the same length of jumper cables using number 1 gauge wire used for welding leads. You can jump a tractor trailer using these but if you tried this with the wal mart cables, it would simply melt them depending on how long the TT started was engaged. The morel of this story is, never skimp on your cables when it comes to producing professional audio.

No, the mushroom of this story is. Learn the difference between tractor cables and balanced mic cables.

"Enough is sufficient unto an amplitude".

Dave.
 
No, the mushroom of this story is. Learn the difference between tractor cables and balanced mic cables.

"Enough is sufficient unto an amplitude".

Dave.

What evessssssss Dave. 6 pages and you still could not get your point across! GIVE IT UP! If you quote me, I will respond! I can only hope this response does not get me banned, AGAIN!
 
I do not want you banned Mack I want you sensible.

Audio cables are legion in their sizes so let's take a very common, readily available wire, CAT5e network cable.
Wire is 24AWG, 0.205mm sq. Take 100 mtrs as the feed to a 32 Ohm headphone. Loop resistance is 18.8R and therefore the loss will be 4dB of signal voltage, perfectly linear and easily made up if required.

HF loss due to the 5200 pf capacitance? 3dB down at 1.7mHz! I doubt we need worry about that.

I am knocking on, cannot play for ***t can't sing and the ears get worse as the years advance. But still got one good eye so my contribution to forums such as this is to use what little knowledge I have to dispel audio myths and inaccuracies. I am too fekking old to care about OTHER peoples reputations. If I think they are wrong or leading people into poor ways of understanding I shall say so. WHEN I am wrong (yes, HAS happened!) I shall put my hand up.

To a first approximation, understanding the physics of audio electronics at the Home Recording level is pretty simple. Let us not muddy the waters.

Banging on about 1,000 amp starter cables and comparing their properties to audio wiring is just OTT and confusing to the less technical noob.

Dave.
 
Come on guys. The difference between cable needed to supply voltage to gear or speakers is obviously different than line level audio. We all know this to some degree.

No need to fight over it. Let's have a peaceful discussion about this. Even tho it has been done a thousand times before, we can have this again in a peaceful manner. Nobody getting banned. Nobody being disrespected for what they understand as facts or in use of cables.

A successful community is based upon peaceful interaction. Let's keep that as our goal. OK?

:D
 
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