Which Audio Interface / DAC when starting out with only monitors and 300 Ohm cans

S

stijnijssel

New member
Yoyo,

I have read a LOT of threads in this forum but i had a really hard time finding the right product which suits my demands which are simply:
- USB in
- A good headphone amp (loud enough to drive a high impendance headphones like 300 Ohm)
- TRS 6.3 mm jack outputs to go to studio monitors

My setup is a 64 bit laptop with Windows 8. And i am currently using Apple Earpods (IPhone 5) as mixing monitors , which i simply plug in to my laptop. (Don't Laugh ) I must say the sound quality isn't THAT bad , but lacking detail i think ( for instance below 50 Hertz) But now i want to make this big upgrade to finally experience real sound quality for my productions in Ableton Live.

I am planning to buy:
- Equator D5 studio monitors (they have TRS 6.3 mm female, unbalanced inputs)
- Some room treatment
- Sennheiser HD600 headphones (300 Ohm) to check the bass on.

In the beginnning i thought i could just plug the equators into my 3.5 mm headphone output, but i read that that is like throwing your sound quality in the trash.
I also read that i need an Amp to drive the HD600's otherwise it would not go loud enough.
My budget is low (under 160 Euro's / 200 $)

I think what i need is an ''DAC w/ balanced outputs''. I don't need inputs for mics and hardware synthesizers right now , but if the device happens to have them as an extra, it would be nice for the long term.

I did a lot of research and people seem to give the best reviews on :
- Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 ( People sadly say it has a low power output so it cannot drive the HD600's properly)
- Steinberg UR22 ( Some people say it is better than the 2i2, but some people say it has an annoying low frequentie rumble on the background (also when the gain is 0. but it seems that this problem accured on a limited number of ur22 leaving the factory . Other people say it has an annoying pink noise when raising the volume)

My questions:
- Does anyone have experience with high impendance headphones using the 2i2? Is the volume of the headphones output THAT low or is it just that you are not going to be deaf listening at full volume? I dont want to be deaf so i wouldn't mind a limit where i do not get hearing damage. But i wouldn't waste my money on a device which doesn't suit my demands.
- Is the Steinberg UR 22 The way to go or does it have some noticable noises in the background?
- Other suggestions/ comments?

Your help would be appreciated,
Thanks in Advance
 
I'm kinda in a similar situation. I'm far more knowledgeable on headphones though, this studio stuff - not so much. Almost anything will drive your HD600's, just not very well. They do need a bit of power. I've got various headphones but my go-to pair are also Senn's, in my case the HD650. They are driven by a dedicated headphone amp, namely, the O2. I'm slowly beginning to realise I'm going to need to buy an audio interface too but which one? I've also read good reviews about the Focusrite model you mention and I see Novation have their own similar product out now, the Audiohub 2x4. I've also had a Native Instruments one recommend to me on this very forum. I guess I just need to do more research.

Gordon.
 
I just got the Scarlett 2i4 which is the 2i2 but with 4 outputs, MIDI in and out, and and also these additional features:
• 2 illuminating “PAD” buttons
• MIDI activity LED indicator
• “STEREO/MONO” switch for direct monitor
• “HEADPHONE SOURCE” switch

The 2i4 blasts my KRK KNS6400s off my head well before I hit full volume, but they're rated at 36 Ohms. The specs say that the analogue output impedance is < 12 Ohms. The specs for the 2i2 say < 10 Ohms. My guess is that your Sennheisers will need amplifying. Maybe if you get the 2i4 and feed two of the RCA outputs to an amp you could plug your headphones in that instead.
 
ecc83 said:
Gordon!
Whatever AI you go for make SURE it has DIN MIDI ports!

Dave.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. Can I ask why I need DIN ports and as opposed to what else? I haven't got a clue about this stuff. The only instruments I'm likely to be hooking up are a microphone and perhaps an acoustic guitar at a later date.
 
I don't see any reason to strive for DIN MIDI ports if you're just recording vocals and acoustic guitar. If you plan on using MIDI instruments that actually have the 5-pin inputs/outputs on them, then sure that'd be nice on an interface.

A friend of mine has the Scarlett 2i2 and I think it's incredible for $150. The preamps sound great for the budget, and it gets the job done admirably. Latency is a little high on it, but that may just be a factor of the PC he's using it on (can't turn the buffer size down too low before getting pops/clicks/dropouts). I've never used the Steinberg unit so I can't comment other than it gets a fair amount of recommendations around here.

As for driving headphones, you can always get a headphone amp if the interface can't drive them adequately.
 
Gord_B said:
Thanks for the advice. Can I ask why I need DIN ports and as opposed to what else? I haven't got a clue about this stuff. The only instruments I'm likely to be hooking up are a microphone and perhaps an acoustic guitar at a later date.
Click to expand...

MIDI ports are a good idea anyway but since you have already bought a MIDI controller it was not unreasonable of me to think you might look to getting other MIDI gear in the future? Since the inclusion of such ports adds little or nothing to the cost, win-win?

Mention was made of the 2i2 as being very popular? Yes, it is, but for the life of me I cannot see why. Do not get me wrong! It IS an excellent interface in some ways but even the owner has admitted that latency is not of the fastest, and believe me THAT will piss you off with MIDI instruments. The 2i2 also has a rather poor instrument overload capacity. New ones are better but not by a lot......Pretty light show tho'but.

The 2i4 is better but lacks a second set of line inputs which I would have thought more useful than a second set of outputs? If you want basic, look at the Steinberg UR22. If you want better look at the NI KA6.

"I don't see any reason to strive for DIN MIDI ports" Nobody needs to "strive" Tadpui, just pick the right interface.
"Once upon a time" the term "audio interface" meant MIDI as well (even cheap SB cards had a gameport that you could use for MIDI!) . Now certain manufacturers are cheap'ing out on us and leaving off MIDI. I have made it my mission to point out to noob punters that they do not HAVE to be so short changed and there are enough good interfaces out there WITH MIDI as without.

IF the 2i2 was a truly outstanding interface, very low latency, very low noise, high headroom di-da...I would champion it (but still point out the lack!) but it ain't. There are as good for about the same money with MIDI.

Dave.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the clarification Dave and I do see your point. However, I was actually considering the Novation Audiohub 2x4 specifically because it has 4 USB ports. Anyway, getting my head around the one MIDI device I currently have is taxing enough for the moment. Adding a microphone would be handy though.
 
Gord_B said:
Thanks for the clarification Dave and I do see your point. However, I was actually considering the Novation Audiohub 2x4 specifically because it has 4 USB ports. Anyway, getting my head around the one MIDI device I currently have is taxing enough for the moment. Adding a microphone would be handy though.
Click to expand...

No! Not that Novation!(pretty much a toy IMHO). You could not "add a microphone " in any case, well, not anything remotely decent since the box does not have an XLR input and therefore no phantom power which is needed for capacitor mics which are now very good and very good value. NOTHING wrong with a Shure 57/58! (must placate the colonials!) but they do have their limitations.

I do understand that the present MIDI device is "taxing" enough at the mo' but since getting a MIDI equipped AI will cost you nothing in terms of cost or performance why not future proof?

Oh! And USB hubs are cheap as chips! I have at least 4.

Dave
 
Gord_B said:
I'm kinda in a similar situation. I'm far more knowledgeable on headphones though, this studio stuff - not so much. Almost anything will drive your HD600's, just not very well. They do need a bit of power. I've got various headphones but my go-to pair are also Senn's, in my case the HD650. They are driven by a dedicated headphone amp, namely, the O2. I'm slowly beginning to realise I'm going to need to buy an audio interface too but which one? I've also read good reviews about the Focusrite model you mention and I see Novation have their own similar product out now, the Audiohub 2x4. I've also had a Native Instruments one recommend to me on this very forum. I guess I just need to do more research.

Gordon.
Click to expand...
Thanks for joining Gordon,
I have asked Lotus 7 ( an audio guru @ gearslutz forum) and he said the 2i2 is a good bang for your buck, but it has not enough power to drive the senny's. This you can solve by connecting a headphone amp on to the headphone output of the 2i2. This will not degrade the sound quality. He strongly adviced me to buy the schiit products for an amp. The schiit magni is only 99$. I am going to follow his advice because he has al lot of experience!
 
Er, since you say "planning to buy" why not just change the headphones you plan to have? There are lots in your price range with lower impedance and great sound. Indeed, if you want to "check" the bass, you want a very neutral sound, not one that emphasises the bass.

It just seems a bit the wrong way around for a headphone to dictate your choice of interface when the interface is much more important than just the 'phones output.

If you don't plan to use MIDI then you don't need MIDI in and out. One of my interfaces has MIDI and I've never once used it...my others don't even have it. Additionally, latency becomes much less of an issue if you're not using MIDI and can therefore use the direct hardware monitoring feature that most good interfaces have.
 
I agree with Bobbs'
Even if you found a headphone/AI combination that was a bit weak there are some excellent H/P amps about for not a lot of dosh. The Behringer units get a good rep.
Unless you are a beardy tweaker audiophool there is not that much to a very good headphone amp. An op amp and a couple of transistors per channel. If you want an absolutely superb H/P amp...TWO op amps and FOUR transistors per channel...And that will push your brains out through your nose, before it clips!

Dave.
 
Bobbsy said:
Er, since you say "planning to buy" why not just change the headphones you plan to have? There are lots in your price range with lower impedance and great sound. Indeed, if you want to "check" the bass, you want a very neutral sound, not one that emphasises the bass.

It just seems a bit the wrong way around for a headphone to dictate your choice of interface when the interface is much more important than just the 'phones output.

If you don't plan to use MIDI then you don't need MIDI in and out. One of my interfaces has MIDI and I've never once used it...my others don't even have it. Additionally, latency becomes much less of an issue if you're not using MIDI and can therefore use the direct hardware monitoring feature that most good interfaces have.
Click to expand...
Hey Bobbs'
I changed my thoughts and ordered a pair of jbl lsr 305 monitors. They save me 150 dollars compared to a pair op equator d5's ( d5's cost 440 euro per pair here in holland) I also just ordered the 2i2 , because many people say it is hard to find any better at that price range. Ill just ignore the inputs since i dont need them, but it's nice that i have them for the case that i am going to want to record something in the future. The jbl speakers also go lower then the equators ( the jbl site says 43 Hz to 24 kHz) And can handle bass heavy music better! ( the equators make strange noises at high SPL with bass heavy music) Many jbl owners say they even dont need a sub with these, so i also am not planning to buy the hd600's anymore. In the case i need more bass, I will order headphones and a heaphone amp if needed. Since i heard that you can just connect the headphone amp to the headphone output of the 2i2 with no problems.

I recieve my order tuesday, i cant wait!
 
ecc83 said:
I agree with Bobbs'
Even if you found a headphone/AI combination that was a bit weak there are some excellent H/P amps about for not a lot of dosh. The Behringer units get a good rep.
Unless you are a beardy tweaker audiophool there is not that much to a very good headphone amp. An op amp and a couple of transistors per channel. If you want an absolutely superb H/P amp...TWO op amps and FOUR transistors per channel...And that will push your brains out through your nose, before it clips!

Dave.
Click to expand...
Hi dave,
I just wanted an audio interface in the > 200$ price range that had a good headphone amp built in, because some silly people gave me the wrong information and said that ' i shouldn't plug an amp after another amp, because it will sound not good' which is only true IF both the amps would colour the sound or enhance some frequenties, but the truth is, amps do NOT color the sound and arenth going to enhance anything. So that is why the problem is kinda solved and i just ordered the 2i2. If which suits my demands very well . People say it had very nice clear sound quality which is what i want. It is also nice that it has good mic preamps for when i would like to plug in a mic to record my own samples in a future moment.
 
My friend has the 2i2 and those LSR305 monitors. I thought it sounded very very good for $450 total. In a small room, those JBLs have ample bass and volume from what I could tell.
 
stijnijssel said:
Hey Bobbs'
I changed my thoughts and ordered a pair of jbl lsr 305 monitors. They save me 150 dollars compared to a pair op equator d5's ( d5's cost 440 euro per pair here in holland) I also just ordered the 2i2 , because many people say it is hard to find any better at that price range. Ill just ignore the inputs since i dont need them, but it's nice that i have them for the case that i am going to want to record something in the future. The jbl speakers also go lower then the equators ( the jbl site says 43 Hz to 24 kHz) And can handle bass heavy music better! ( the equators make strange noises at high SPL with bass heavy music) Many jbl owners say they even dont need a sub with these, so i also am not planning to buy the hd600's anymore. In the case i need more bass, I will order headphones and a heaphone amp if needed. Since i heard that you can just connect the headphone amp to the headphone output of the 2i2 with no problems.

I recieve my order tuesday, i cant wait!
Click to expand...

The JBLs are nice monitors and I think you'll be pleased with them. However, depending on your musical style, you may decide you need a sub after all. Despite the 43Hz claim, they won't be "moving air" the way that's needed for a real, "feel it in your gut" bass.

Time for a boring bit of audio pedantry...tune out now if you don't want it!

A spec of "43 to 24,000 Hz" is totally meaningless without some extra information. The spec SHOULD read something like "43 to 24,000 Hz +1/-3dB" or whatever. Unless you know how far off "flat" the frequency response is you can't really trust the numbers. Heck, my phone can probably claim frequencies down to 43 Hz...just down 60dB at that point! :)

Anyhow, you can decide for yourself on subs etc. after using your system for a while. What you have will let you make some good recordings and you can decide on refinements as you go along! Enjoy Tuesday!
 
Bobbsy said:
The JBLs are nice monitors and I think you'll be pleased with them. However, depending on your musical style, you may decide you need a sub after all. Despite the 43Hz claim, they won't be "moving air" the way that's needed for a real, "feel it in your gut" bass.

Time for a boring bit of audio pedantry...tune out now if you don't want it!

A spec of "43 to 24,000 Hz" is totally meaningless without some extra information. The spec SHOULD read something like "43 to 24,000 Hz +1/-3dB" or whatever. Unless you know how far off "flat" the frequency response is you can't really trust the numbers. Heck, my phone can probably claim frequencies down to 43 Hz...just down 60dB at that point! :)

Anyhow, you can decide for yourself on subs etc. after using your system for a while. What you have will let you make some good recordings and you can decide on refinements as you go along! Enjoy Tuesday!
Click to expand...
Thanks !
I know that but the rollof point is way more to that left that for instance the equator d5's , which i almost bought. So for now i dont care:p time will tell how they sound for me:p

P.s. Did you know using a sub is not desirable when miximg house tracks like i do? I know from a lot of people who bought equator d5's and also producers like Shadowchild that they recommend mixing without a sub. I wouldn't say it will overpower your mix, but maybe it is nice to focus your mixes on frequenties that the speakers of you listeners support. Most people listen to your music on iphone earpods or sumtn like that, so these people wont hear those subsonic frequenties anyway. That on the side it can cause a lot of problems in your room acousticly. Even more when you have a relatively small room like me. (And a lot of other people)
 
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