Analog Cassette to Digital Transfer

4

4tracker

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Hey guys.

I am trying to get old demos onto my pc. These are stereo masters on cassette. I have a deck and everything setup. Really the only thing I need to know, is in my DAW, what setting should the channel level be at? Should it be -18dbfs like a normal recording, 0, etc?

Thanks
 
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What are you using for an interface/soundcard? That's where you set your levels. What are you oging to be doing with the tracks once transferred - any kind of processing? Make sure your cassette is putting out a decent level - that's where the noise will be from. I dont' think it makes a big deal what level you record to, as long as its not clipping.
 
Clean and demagnetise the heads before starting - and it's best to fast wind the cassette all the way through a couple of times to make sure it's wound properly and to get rid of any stickiness.
 
mjbphotos said:
What are you using for an interface/soundcard? That's where you set your levels. What are you oging to be doing with the tracks once transferred - any kind of processing? Make sure your cassette is putting out a decent level - that's where the noise will be from. I dont' think it makes a big deal what level you record to, as long as its not clipping.
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I'm using a focusrite 18i8, using the line-ins on the back. I have the channel set to -2 dbfs. Just picked that randomly. Is that okay? I know how to do everything else but pick the channel level. Is there any theory or science behind how that should be set?

I did clean all the inside and degauss the deck.
 
Average levels of -18dBFS should be fine.

To get the optimum HF response and lowest possible noise you need to align the head to the recording. You can't assume the head alignment of your deck matches that of the original record deck and nothing you can do after the transfer can truly compensate for a misalignment.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Average levels of -18dBFS should be fine.

To get the optimum HF response and lowest possible noise you need to align the head to the recording. You can't assume the head alignment of your deck matches that of the original record deck and nothing you can do after the transfer can truly compensate for a misalignment.
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I wanted to do that, but doesn't it require adjusting a screw inside the transport?
I couldn't figure out how to get the door off. The machine is a Techniques rs-b50. Is the screw to adjust alignment inside the transport? Anyone know how to get the door off? It didn't come with a manual...
 
4tracker said:
I wanted to do that, but doesn't it require adjusting a screw inside the transport?
I couldn't figure out how to get the door off. The machine is a Techniques rs-b50. Is the screw to adjust alignment inside the transport? Anyone know how to get the door off? It didn't come with a manual...
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There's a little screw below and off to the side of the record/play head that adjusts it. It probably has a little dot of paint or nail polish holding it in the factory setting. [Edit] Look along the bottom edge of the door. There should be a notch to allow a jeweler's screwdriver through to the adjusting screw.

On most decks you open the door and lift it off the front of it from the frame. It sort of clicks in place when you put it back on.

There's a process I use to get the alignment right. The first step is to be sure the left and right levels match. The I alternate between playing in mono while adjusting the alignment for the best sound in the extreme HF, and playing it in stereo and adjusting while listening to precedence effect. Then I repeat the process, match levels, adjust for best sound by phase and precedence, until I can't make any more improvement.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
There's a little screw below and off to the side of the record/play head that adjusts it. It probably has a little dot of paint or nail polish holding it in the factory setting.

On most decks you open the door and lift it off the front of it from the frame. It sort of clicks in place when you put it back on.

There's a process I use to get the alignment right. The first step is to be sure the left and right levels match. The I alternate between playing in mono while adjusting the alignment for the best sound in the extreme HF, and playing it in stereo and adjusting while listening to precedence effect. Then I repeat the process, match levels, adjust for best sound by phase and precedence, until I can't make any more improvement.
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Okay I did get the sliding piece of plastic off and now have access to a red screw left of the playhead. I assume this is the azimuth screw?

I'm nervous to touch it! Fear I might screw the deck up, no pun intended.

Maybe I'll do a recording with the defacto setting just so I have a transfer. Then tinker with the azimuth after that to see if I can get it better, but I know those screws are very sensitive, and I've never adjusted one, so I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking for...

If you do get a sound you like, how do you lock the screw into place?
 
Also, do you have to do this with each tape (I have to transfer 4, and all were done on the same 4-track), or only adjust it if a tape was recorded on a different 4-track?
 
4tracker said:
Okay I did get the sliding piece of plastic off and now have access to a red screw left of the playhead. I assume this is the azimuth screw?
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Probably. The adjuster screw will probably have a spring around the shaft to maintain tension.

4tracker said:
I'm nervous to touch it! Fear I might screw the deck up, no pun intended.

Maybe I'll do a recording with the defacto setting just so I have a transfer.
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Good, smart move.

4tracker said:
Then tinker with the azimuth after that to see if I can get it better, but I know those screws are very sensitive, and I've never adjusted one, so I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking for...
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It's all about the HF clarity and HF phase alignment between left and right channels.

4tracker said:
If you do get a sound you like, how do you lock the screw into place?
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Use a toothpick to carefully place a tiny drop of nail polish, model car paint or the like on the edge of the screw to lock it in place. But if you don't move the deck around it will probably not go out of adjustment, at least not right away.
 
4tracker said:
Also, do you have to do this with each tape (I have to transfer 4, and all were done on the same 4-track), or only adjust it if a tape was recorded on a different 4-track?
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If they're all from the same deck I wouldn't readjust.

By the way, the speed of cassette playback varies enough to put stuff out of sync within a couple of minutes. I think you may have trouble syncing up tracks 1 and 2 with tracks 3 and 4, assuming that's the goal.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
If they're all from the same deck I wouldn't readjust.

By the way, the speed of cassette playback varies enough to put stuff out of sync within a couple of minutes. I think you may have trouble syncing up tracks 1 and 2 with tracks 3 and 4, assuming that's the goal.
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These are already mastered, so it's just a matter of getting all 4 cassette masters into the PC.

Thanks for all the info. I am going to transfer them all default now, then try another transfer after I adjust the alignment.

So did we agree -18dbfs is where the channel setting should be? That was my original question. I read on sound-on-sound that they said you can go near 0 on the DAW (input) channel, but they recommended slightly lower. I just don't understand the science of this...
 
4tracker said:
So did we agree -18dbfs is where the channel setting should be? That was my original question. I read on sound-on-sound that they said you can go near 0 on the DAW (input) channel, but they recommended slightly lower. I just don't understand the science of this...
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I'd say that if you're absolutely positive you're not going to do any processing and your converters are clean right up to their clipping point then push it to exactly 0dB. Otherwise assume you're going to do some kind of processing, in which case I'd go for -18dBFS average levels.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
I'd say that if you're absolutely positive you're not going to do any processing and your converters are clean right up to their clipping point then push it to exactly 0dB. Otherwise assume you're going to do some kind of processing, in which case I'd go for -18dBFS average levels.
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Okay, I might do a little EQ on it, so -18?

Sounds good. Thank you
 
When you say "-18 for the channel setting", where are you adjusting this? The way you are wording it makes me think you are using the fader in your DAW to adjust the recording level, which is incorrect, or even worse, setting the faders in the DAW to -18).

You need to adjust the levels on the audio interface so that a reading of zero on the cassette deck meters is -18dbfs on the meters in the computer. The faders in the computer all need to be set to unity (zero).
 
Farview said:
When you say "-18 for the channel setting", where are you adjusting this? The way you are wording it makes me think you are using the fader in your DAW to adjust the recording level, which is incorrect, or even worse, setting the faders in the DAW to -18).

You need to adjust the levels on the audio interface so that a reading of zero on the cassette deck meters is -18dbfs on the meters in the computer. The faders in the computer all need to be set to unity (zero).
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Crap, yeah i was lowering the channel to -18.

How do I adjust the level on the audio interface? They are just line-ins on the back of the focusrite scarlette. Should I plug them into the front inputs that have preamp gain knobs? Those can be adjusted, but the line-in on the back can't from what I see.
 
4tracker said:
Crap, yeah i was lowering the channel to -18.

How do I adjust the level on the audio interface? They are just line-ins on the back of the focusrite scarlette. Should I plug them into the front inputs that have preamp gain knobs? Those can be adjusted, but the line-in on the back can't from what I see.
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The cassette deck will be putting out a line level of -10, if your inputs are expecting -10, just plug it in and go. If they are expecting +4, your levels will be low and you.should plug into the front so you can adjust the levels.
 
Farview said:
The cassette deck will be putting out a line level of -10, if your inputs are expecting -10, just plug it in and go. If they are expecting +4, your levels will be low and you.should plug into the front so you can adjust the levels.
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Or just let it be low. The cassette's noise floor will still be way above that of 24 bit digital.
 
Farview said:
The cassette deck will be putting out a line level of -10, if your inputs are expecting -10, just plug it in and go. If they are expecting +4, your levels will be low and you.should plug into the front so you can adjust the levels.
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Okay thanks. Some of the oringal material on the cassette was recorded too hot, like in the saturation area (I think +4-8db) on the 4-track.It actually sound good, despite that, somehow. Other material was recorded more technically correctly (0 VU range).

This deck (technics rs-b50) doesn't have any output volume control. So for the material that is too hot, set the input channel to unity, plug into the front so I can adjust gain to get the master fader as close to -18dbfs on its scale?

Hopefully that is correct. It looks like the deck is messed up anyway, because the transport seized out of the box, then worked, but then seized again after just a couple playbacks. I will have to return it, so I have time to figure this out.

Thanks, dudes.
 
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