Alesis Multimix 16 USB 2.0 & Ableton - Gradually Garbled Sound - What Else to Try??

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Alesis Multimix 16 USB 2.0 & Ableton - Gradually Garbled Sound - What Else to Try??

Greetings all!

I joined this forum a while ago, but I haven't been doing much recording lately (due to the following issue). Any help is greatly appreciated--I don't know what else I can try.

I know this is a lot in a post, but I wanted to be thorough describing the situation. I'm desperate to get a working system again!:(

I've had this problem for over a year now. Keep tinkering and can't fix it. I can't record because of this. Ready to pull my hair out.


2 Problems:


1) When recording or just monitoring through my Alesis Multimix 16 USB 2.0 into Ableton Live or Reason, I will eventually start to get garbled sound (as if buffer is too low).

2) If that doesn't happen, depending on settings, I get latency of about 1.5s using ASIO4all.


The Gear/Setup:

Alesis Multimix 16 USB 2.0
- 8 xlr Mics in
- 4 Stereo Line-Level in
- USB 2.0 to PC

Ableton Live 9

Reason 5

ASUS U43F
- Windows 7 Home Premium x64, SP1 (Slimmed-down clean install on separate partition, only used for music studio)
- Intel i5, M480 @ 2.67GHz
- 6GB RAM
- 25GB/100GB Free on HDD Partition.


What I've Tried:

FYI, the Multimix 16 supports all 16 tracks (plus mixdown) into computer separately (hence its initial appeal).

I'm not showing any maxing out in my Resource Monitor. From my standpoint, it doesn't seem to be CPU maxing out, hard drive not keeping up reading/writing, USB hub and/or throughput insufficiency. I'm pretty adept, but not really advanced with this kind of thing, so maybe it is one of these things? Anyway:

1) I've tried running In / Out through the Multimix. The result is usually latency of about 1.5s.

Alesis In - Alesis Out.png



Video of the symptoms:
[video]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzmgALUm4SYeUF80NXFpbURieW8/view?usp=sharing[/video]



2) I've tried running In from the Multimix and Out via computer sound card. 1/8" Headphone out from computer into Ch 15/16 of Multimix, and use that channel to monitor recordings from Ableton. The result is usually a clean signal, but in a matter of seconds/maybe 1 minute, the sound starts to become garbled and unusable. Resetting ASIO4all or changing any devices' buffer amount cleans up the signal, but then it becomes garbled again.

Alesis In - Realtek Out.png



Video of the symptoms: (I reset the ASIO driver about half-way through)
[video]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzmgALUm4SYeZ3B4cXFNZkwzbVk/view?usp=sharing[/video]




Conclusions?

I would really like to make this setup work. I had a Tascam US-1800, and I never had problems like this. But I got the Alesis so I could use it in the studio and on stage. I don't know if I need a better computer, better mixer, or some other component, but like I said: on a budget, I'd like to get this setup working :)

Thanks for all insight; I'm really stumped and would love some help.
 
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When I first got mine I updated the firmware - download from Alesis site.
Why are you not using the original drivers - also download from Alesis site.
 
Hi id01957, thanks for the reply!

I have the most up-to-date firmware (v1.10) and the most up-to-date driver (v2.9.13). I have tried using the Alesis drivers, but get problem #2, explained above; I get a lot of latency (the first video link, above).
(And I should say: that amount of latency is at around 256 samples. Live says that my latency is 26ms--definitely not!)

Using ASIO4all, I can configure Alesis' drivers and my Realtek drivers. I don't know enough about how ASIO4all works to know if I'm actually bypassing Alesis' drivers or just managing them, but I usually can get lower latency with ASIO4all. Like I said, though, neither option seems to be working well right now :o

I'm also currently installing some Windows Updates. I'll post back whether that helps anything :)
 
First, dump the ASIO4ALL. Use the ASIO drivers supplied by the manufacturer. Once you have them installed, and get them working in Ableton, you can set your buffers to reduce latency. You can do this either by clicking on the hardware setup. If that doesn't work, you should see an icon showing it is working in the lower right area of the task bar. Do remember, the lower the buffer will often time create sound issues. Ableton has a feature for direct monitoring. You can also calibrate your interface and determine your latency settings. Do a search in the Ableton help and there is a lesson showing you how to do it.

Not sure what you are configuring your Realtek drivers in Ableton. You should be coming in and out with the Mixer.

You should also note, based on some of the things I have read, your mixer will only output two channel USB.
 
Hi David,

You can do this ... by clicking on the hardware setup.
Yes, I'm able to use the Alesis ASIO drivers. When I select them, I can configure the buffer amount. However, I get far more latency than Ableton or the Alesis driver config window reports (like I said, almost 1500ms of latency, instead of the reported 26ms). The first video link demonstrates this effect. Lowering this buffer too much does distort the audio, as we'd expect, but the huge latency does not seem to be normal/expected.

You can also calibrate your interface and determine your latency settings. Do a search in the Ableton help and there is a lesson showing you how to do it.
I do remember doing this in the past. I did it with my old Tascam US-1800. Worked fine (never had problems like I have now). But this isn't usable with the current problem, because [I think] the max adjustment is 300ms, so adjusting this barely makes a dent in the latency.

Not sure what you are configuring your Realtek drivers in Ableton. You should be coming in and out with the Mixer.
When I use ASIO4all, I can tell Ableton to use the IN from the Mixer and the OUT from Realtek (my computer sound card). I send the signal out my computer headphone jack into a channel on the mixer, as a workaround. That gives me the effect in the second video I linked above.

You should also note, based on some of the things I have read, your mixer will only output two channel USB.
The newer Multimix's only send the mixed-down master over USB. However, this model sends all 16 channels, plus the mixdown. When the Mixer IN is configured in Ableton, I can activate all 18 Channels as expected.


Thanks for the suggestions :), and I'm all ears for any other ideas you (and anyone else) have. This has really got me stumped! It just seems these issues are not normal.
 
I do remember doing this in the past. I did it with my old Tascam US-1800. Worked fine (never had problems like I have now). But this isn't usable with the current problem, because [I think] the max adjustment is 300ms, so adjusting this barely makes a dent in the latency.

You may have answered your own question. Must be something with the hardware. You may want to check on the hardware interface's website to see if others are getting this issue. AD/DA converter speed play a role as well. Maybe this unit is more focused on sound capture than real time monitoring.
 
Thanks, David, I'll do some research on that! I know it's old tech, so it may just not be up to snuff. However:

Any idea why I'm getting problem number 2? From a latency standpoint, my workaround of going IN via the mixer and OUT via the computer soundcard works, for a short time. Then it gets garbled. When I change any buffer setting, or basically restart/refresh the ASIO4all driver, the signal becomes clear again, with no latency. Then it gets garbled again over time. I don't know what resource I'm running out of, to cause this.

(This tells me that the mixer can at least handle this buffer/latency config--going IN anyway)

If I could at least identify the bottleneck, I would know what I might upgrade to make the system work. I first had thought SSD, but this is a monitoring issue, not recording, so that hasn't even entered into it yet.


Again, thanks for the help!
 
Are you, and if you are how are you, ReWire-ing? You list Ableton and Reason 5, so I'm assuming you are. Improper ReWire setup will cause huge latencies that Ableton would not see (thus the small number).
 
Thanks, David, I'll do some research on that! I know it's old tech, so it may just not be up to snuff. However:

Any idea why I'm getting problem number 2? From a latency standpoint, my workaround of going IN via the mixer and OUT via the computer soundcard works, for a short time. Then it gets garbled. When I change any buffer setting, or basically restart/refresh the ASIO4all driver, the signal becomes clear again, with no latency. Then it gets garbled again over time. I don't know what resource I'm running out of, to cause this.

(This tells me that the mixer can at least handle this buffer/latency config--going IN anyway)

If I could at least identify the bottleneck, I would know what I might upgrade to make the system work. I first had thought SSD, but this is a monitoring issue, not recording, so that hasn't even entered into it yet.


Again, thanks for the help!

OK, so now we are a little further along. First, I don;t know how many "Live Channels" you are trying to monitor. 16 in and out, one and 16 out (or what ever the number is)? This changes everything. Not having an issue with say two in and two out (old system) is different from 16 in and 16 out live with the new system. Now it is a combination of interface, software and computer.

If you are recording 16 tracks at once, why you would be monitoring all of them with live effects really makes no sense. One or two (like reverb for the singer or a couple of tracks with effects, for additional track recording. My first thought would be to look at system resources, memory, CPU load, how many effects are still being processed. You may want to use the freeze feature on the tracks that are not being recorded live and monitor only those tracks that are hot. If there are a number of them (say more than 4), then you should use the mixer to monitor and not the sound from the computer coming back, lots of processing.

Check you CPU usage (if it spikes above 70% you will notice it) and make sure you are not getting HD light coming on in Ableton (I assume you know where that is). Tracks that are done, freeze them, that removes the load from the computer.

Hope this helps.
 
I'm working from home right now, but not in my studio, SO:

Okay, have you tried THIS program to see what are your major contributors?

Thanks, BroKen_H, I'll definitely look at that! It looks promising.


how many "Live Channels" you are trying to monitor

I've been testing with the bare bones, and I get these results. Going IN: I have 1/2 on (it gets picky without it I guess..), and I might turn on 9/10, which is my guitar. Going OUT: I have 1/2 on, which sends to the 2Tk on my mixer, which I can send to the Mixer's "Main Mix" (no issue there) OR it sends out my Computer Headphone jack (as discussed above), and into the Mixer's "15/16" spot.
So: minimal drain on the computer for these tests.

As I said, recording isn't even the issue (when I get there, I'll happily troubleshoot :-) ), because these issues go on the track during recording (either garbled sound (case 2), or my wave-forms being 1.5s behind anything else I might have in my session (case 1) ).

look at system resources, memory, CPU load, how many effects are still being processed.

I've looked at these and don't think I've seen any spiking (which is why this all is weird). I'll take a closer look, though. Again, this is also a stream-lined clean Windows install, with some adapters turned off, etc.

If you are recording 16 tracks at once, why you would be monitoring all of them with live effects really makes no sense.

I have recorded some band stuff in the past (Drums + ~4 instruments? ~10 channels total) with my Tascam. With this Multimix, it's no problem to monitor via the Mixer, and the latency can be as high as it wants.

However, my goal for recording at this point is mainly overdubbing myself.
I can use the Mixer to monitor (i.e. not monitoring through computer); however, in order to overdub, I play the recorded tracks from the computer while I lay down a new track. The result is either garbled sound IN/OUT (case 2) on the new track/monitoring, or my newly recorded track is input 1.5s later than everything else I've already recorded. Meaning that I would have to manually drag and perfectly align every single new track/punch in-out. Waaay too tedious to be an option.


OK, so now we are a little further along.
I agree! Thanks again, everyone, for the help!!
 
Okay, have you tried THIS program to see what are your major contributors?
Hi BroKen_H [and everyone/anyone else who might be able to help :thumbs up:],

I finally was able to use this program to get more information. I'll share some of that, and I'd love some help in deciphering it :)

Here's some info:

LatencyMon screenshot.png


My CPUs Page:

LatencyMon screenshot 2.png


Noticing that I'm maxing out Hard Pagefaults. I have also maxed out interrupt-to-process latency in another test as well. However, if my latency is around 4000 microseconds, why is that a big deal (that's only 4ms!)?


What I've Done:

I changed a setting in my BIOS from "Turbo Mode" to "Extreme Turbo Mode".

I changed my Windows visual performance settings to be completely Performance slanted.

I've changed my Power Settings based on suggestions to preclude USB powering down, CPU throttling, etc.

I'm going to check now for any BIOS updates :eek:...



My Stats page reads as follows:

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CONCLUSION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your system appears to be having trouble handling real-time audio and other tasks. You are likely to experience buffer underruns appearing as drop outs, clicks or pops. One or more DPC routines that belong to a driver running in your system appear to be executing for too long. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates.
LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for 0:00:42 (h:mm:ss) on all processors.




_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
SYSTEM INFORMATION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Computer name: STUDIO-PC
OS version: Windows 7 Service Pack 1, 6.1, build: 7601 (x64)
Hardware: U43F , ASUSTeK Computer Inc., PEGATRON CORPORATION, U43
CPU: GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU M 480 @ 2.67GHz
Logical processors: 4
Processor groups: 1
RAM: 5941 MB total




_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU SPEED
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Reported CPU speed: 2793.0 MHz
Measured CPU speed: 3359.0 MHz (approx.)


Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.




_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.


Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 4094.329780
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 27.523619


Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 2121.39730
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 9.331135




_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED ISRs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.


Highest ISR routine execution time (µs): 183.568206
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time: ataport.SYS - ATAPI Driver Extension, Microsoft Corporation


Highest reported total ISR routine time (%): 0.194193
Driver with highest ISR total time: USBPORT.SYS - USB 1.1 & 2.0 Port Driver, Microsoft Corporation


Total time spent in ISRs (%) 0.346371


ISR count (execution time <250 µs): 85026
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0




_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.


Highest DPC routine execution time (µs): 2398.728607
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time: portcls.sys - Port Class (Class Driver for Port/Miniport Devices), Microsoft Corporation


Highest reported total DPC routine time (%): 8.748681
Driver with highest DPC total execution time: portcls.sys - Port Class (Class Driver for Port/Miniport Devices), Microsoft Corporation


Total time spent in DPCs (%) 11.222374


DPC count (execution time <250 µs): 332427
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs): 44
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 85
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 7131
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0




_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.


NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit.


Process with highest pagefault count: svchost.exe


Total number of hard pagefaults 2344
Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process: 1245
Highest hard pagefault resolution time (µs): 241618.633727
Total time spent in hard pagefaults (%): 0.202410
Number of processes hit: 3




_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
PER CPU DATA
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s): 3.727295
CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs): 178.482277
CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s): 0.20550
CPU 0 ISR count: 52911
CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs): 2245.286788
CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s): 3.475878
CPU 0 DPC count: 219395
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s): 8.017158
CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs): 183.568206
CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s): 0.162424
CPU 1 ISR count: 10796
CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs): 2398.728607
CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s): 7.642497
CPU 1 DPC count: 42500
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s): 4.486065
CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs): 97.813104
CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s): 0.105413
CPU 2 ISR count: 10717
CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs): 2383.967419
CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s): 4.429422
CPU 2 DPC count: 40508
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s): 3.728613
CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs): 168.720014
CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s): 0.110022
CPU 3 ISR count: 10602
CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs): 2330.216971
CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s): 3.352925
CPU 3 DPC count: 37284
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Again, thanks for all the help. What I don't know is if there are other things I can try, or if I need a better interface or a better computer? (Obviously, better tech would be a solution, but can this work?)
 
Okay, first notice is your primary CPU (0) is taking about 5:1 on hits. Not sure if that's normal for i5 quad. (My 8 core AMD only takes about 2:1 on the primary with Reason 8.1 and Tascam drivers) Doesn't seem to be hurting execution times, so probably negligible, but could be a problem with the way the software is using your processor. Could be Ableton, or could be Alesis drivers, or could be something else entirely in the system.
Second notice is that we don't get to see the processes and drivers tabs (where problem software might be pinpointed).

Continuing on with normal diagnostics...
If this is a recent problem, try reverting to the version of your driver or software you last updated.
If that solves the problem, we know the culprit, if not, you can just reinstall and be where we are now, nothing ventured, nothing gained. :)
Also, sometimes completely uninstalling and reinstalling helps. Some other program you installed recently may have clobbered the proper connections between Ableton and Alesis. Happens...
 
Hi BroKen_H,

Very interesting turn of events in the last 2 months: Firstly, don't think I realized you replied--sorry about that!

My setup has changed dramatically, but in working on some issues, my Googling brought me to my own thread :facepalm: :D.

So...

For work reasons, personal reasons, and recording reasons, I decided to do my first computer build. The result is a considerably beastly machine (for me), and my original problem with the mixer has basically gone away because of the new firepower.

I'm now running Windows 8.1 Pro on an Intel i7-4790k (OC@4.6GHz), 16GB RAM, 240GB SSD, 2TB HDD. I've got a 30' USB repeater running from my studio upstairs to my computer, and I use Remote Desktop to control it from my old computer (both computers wired into my network).

The reason I'm still posting to this thread :o is that I may have zeroed in a bit on the original issue (I figured I'd post for posterity and because I'm still having a specific issue).


New part of the story:

I'm noticing that certain issues may be present when the mixer is connected through a USB hub.

When the mixer goes straight into my computer, no audio problems whatsoever. The issues I experienced before are not present. But then I can't use my keyboards in the setup. I bought a powered 7-port USB 2.0 hub, and when that's placed in the chain, the resulting latency is ~1.5s, even with nothing else plugged into the hub. Also, not sure if I said, but this is anything coming through the mixer while it's acting as a sound card. System dings, any audio, and Ableton all have this delay...

So my simple solution will likely be to buy another 30' USB repeater for the hub and keyboards, etc. But this is curious. Why doesn't this mixer like to go through a hub? Obviously, running only one cable would be appealing :)

(It's of note that before, I had tried going straight from my mixer to my old computer, and I still got the garbled sound, so it looks like my old computer wasn't up to snuff causing issue #1 in the first post...)

Whew! I'm amazed at how verbose I can be :eatpopcorn: sorry about that! :o

Thanks for the input (to you and everyone)! Part of the problem was solved with the new setup, but there may be some answer regarding the USB hub compatibility for anyone else (including me) with the 2nd problem (abnormal latency)...
 
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Save money, time and trouble... don't use USB for realtime audio. It doesn't really work as advertised. It's one of those things that everyone uses because everyone uses it. That is, it's out there so people assume it works. Manufactures make product and vendors sell it, so people buy it. That all.
 
Thanks for the input (to you and everyone)! Part of the problem was solved with the new setup, but there may be some answer regarding the USB hub compatibility for anyone else (including me) with the 2nd problem (abnormal latency)...

Don't use a hub for your interface. Plug straight into the motherboard. The hub can be used for other things, but not the audio interface. It will cause problems.
 
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