glenn taylor
New member
I have heard it would cost too much to design a new recorder. Just like the recording and music industry there was a point in time when studios did ok and rock stars got rich. The machines,tape,money,are all going away.
Will Analog Multitracks ever be made again?
- Thread starter Victory Pete
- Start date
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Haven't seen this thread in awhile.
Looking at the poll results....I can't believe that almost 50% of the people here actually think tape recorders will make a comeback..
...that companies will sink money into design & development of something they will not be able to sell in any quantity, and what they could sell, would have to be priced real high for them to see any profits...so few people would want to buy them.
You want a tape recorder...go buy one.
There's plenty on the used market....everything from consumer 2-tracks to high-end multitracks.
Looking at the poll results....I can't believe that almost 50% of the people here actually think tape recorders will make a comeback..
...that companies will sink money into design & development of something they will not be able to sell in any quantity, and what they could sell, would have to be priced real high for them to see any profits...so few people would want to buy them.You want a tape recorder...go buy one.
There's plenty on the used market....everything from consumer 2-tracks to high-end multitracks.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
Funnily enough, I looked at this yesterday for the first time in years. In fact, this was the first HR thread I ever took part in back in December 2009 !Haven't seen this thread in awhile.
Looking at the poll results....I can't believe that almost 50% of the people here actually think tape recorders will make a comeback..
I think the poll results were pretty much the same then. I kind of suspect that if the poll was put out newly now, the Nos would overwhelmingly win.
I hope it's not the case because I like to see older crafts preserved and taking their place alongside modern methods and stuff, but I fear that "analog only" will eventually go the same way as the Jedi did in "A new hope" {the original Star Wars film}.......
Hammerstone
Out of style
As long as it happens after I'm dead, I don't care. Perhaps that's a bit selfish and short-sighted, but all the same, I think that's my best-case scenario.
rob aylestone
Moderator
People are looking back wit Rose Tinted Glasses - to anyone who is born in the digital age, the machines we use and the computers are simply a tool. Looking back, remember how horrible and time-consuming to keep going multitrack were? They were mechanical, substantial and easy to appreciate for what they did. Now multitrack is cheap, nostalgia is not going to make profits. Vinyl is now coming back as an enthusiast's medium, and not as a mass market product. I'm not saying a novelty, just a specialist product with premium price. They way of working, not really the sound. Workflow is now more important than the actual tools. It's like cars - enthusiasts still recondition old cars and even produce body panels - but few people would argue these are actually better than a modern vehicle with all the nice features. People still want them to have and love - new vehicles don't have the same appeal to most people. Everything in old fashioned products is a manufacturing nightmare nowadays - money is in the masses.
ausrock
Well-known member
One might just as well ask (well almost), whether floppy drives (especially the original 5"ish variety) or DAT players, etc., are ever going to be made again 
.
Regardless of whether or not analogue tape machines will ever again be viably produced, the fact is that correctly stored tape or vinyl will outlast any current digital storage by many years.
.Regardless of whether or not analogue tape machines will ever again be viably produced, the fact is that correctly stored tape or vinyl will outlast any current digital storage by many years.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
My brother-in-law has two of those 3D printers at his biz....I'll see if he can knock out a Studer tape deck for me...and a Neve console to go with it!
Lucky guy. if you don't mind me asking, what type of work doesMy brother-in-law has two of those 3D printers at his biz....I'll see if he can knock out a Studer tape deck for me...and a Neve console to go with it!
he does? I am thinking about buying a consumer model to make my own toy line. Be nice to print a nice Neve or API board. Hey I am sure 10 years from now we will be able to do so.
Last edited:
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
He does a variety of stuff, but most of it is centered around designing/manufacturing merchandise displays....for pharmacy chains (like Rite Aid) and for other retailers.
They use the 3-D printers for proofing out the smaller stuff before it goes out to the plants for manufacturing.
They use the 3-D printers for proofing out the smaller stuff before it goes out to the plants for manufacturing.
Well, my thoughts are - how much creativity gets cut off when you have to go between a different bunch of screens, and plug-in options, computer crashes, etc. ? With analogue gear, it's basically the transport functions, decent outboard gear, good musicians, and you're in the ballpark. But nothing is perfect in this world, and with analogue comes issues such as the individual quality of each box of tape, and what, "Mood" the recorder is in on any particular day. What would be great is if the analogue manufacturers could - (1) make tape more durable, and (2) Make machines that require less repair, both while delivering these goods at prices the little guys can afford. Given the ongoing feel that analogue is generally better sounding than digital, I bet some inventive genius is thinking about making better tapes, and machines as we write.
Plus, now that companies like UA, AKG, Avalon, etc., are delivering their outboard magical products at better price points to the home recordist, the optimistic view is that the great analogue revival may be somewhere in the not too distant future. That said, I am a confirmed, and dedicated optimist.
Plus, now that companies like UA, AKG, Avalon, etc., are delivering their outboard magical products at better price points to the home recordist, the optimistic view is that the great analogue revival may be somewhere in the not too distant future. That said, I am a confirmed, and dedicated optimist.
ausrock
Well-known member
I don't know whether this has been mentioned earlier in this thread...................... Famous Swiss Tape Recorder Brand To Re-introduce Reel-to-Reel Analog Recorder! | Analog Planet ...........this is from 16th May last year.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I think that was already discussed last year...and everyone is still on the edge of their seats.
If they do, whoever it is....it's not going to be anything anyone here will buy.
It's most likely going to be aimed (that really means high priced - $$$) at the pro studio market and probably just a high-end 2-track meant for stereo transfers/mixdowns.
I doubt anyone puts out a new multi-track deck in any tape format......
If they do, whoever it is....it's not going to be anything anyone here will buy.
It's most likely going to be aimed (that really means high priced - $$$) at the pro studio market and probably just a high-end 2-track meant for stereo transfers/mixdowns.
I doubt anyone puts out a new multi-track deck in any tape format......
Thaddeus
New member
The heads are the only component unique to the device. Everything else ... motors, circuitry, etc... can be satisfied through commodity means.
That is, except for the tape itself. That's the tricky thing. Once the medium is no longer made (think Kodachrome and cameras) the device is useless.
I think they'll be made but they'll become a boutique product with a price to match.
That is, except for the tape itself. That's the tricky thing. Once the medium is no longer made (think Kodachrome and cameras) the device is useless.
I think they'll be made but they'll become a boutique product with a price to match.
It already is. Tape costs double what it did 10 years ago, and triple what it cost 20 years ago. Engineers I talk to who offer analog recording say their analog clients will often spend more on tape than any other fee involved at the studio.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Well...so far RMGI is still at it, and ATR is also still active a year or so now after its founder, Mike Spitz died...but you have to wonder how the company is set up to exist without him. I mean, will it plod on into the future or slowly fold...?
I don't think there's anyone else making pro recording tape formats...?
I keep my eye on the NOS market and try to grab any deals I find. So far, I've only purchased some 1/4" pancakes from RMGI a couple of years back, otherwise no 2" stuff.
I just scored three NOS reels of 2" tape (1 Quantegy 499, 1 EMTEC 911 & 1 Quantegy 456) for $75 each from a studio in LA (I guess they're moving on from tape).
I have a nice little pile growing, so I can roll for many years to come...and I have plenty of NOS EMTEC 911 & 468 1/4"and also 1/2", though I'm not using the 1/2" these days, just the 2" and 1/4"...but I'm holding on to it in case I land a nice 1/2" mixdown 2-track one of these days.
You stay away from my LA studios!!! 
j/k. There is still a lifetimes supply for many home studios up in that area.
Ive got more 499 than I could use in 2" and 1/4" myself.
A few weeks back I saw an Sony APR-24 for free up there with auto locator, spares, cables etc. I need another APR like I need a hole in my head, so to me it wasnt even worth a tank of gas to go haul it home.
j/k. There is still a lifetimes supply for many home studios up in that area.Ive got more 499 than I could use in 2" and 1/4" myself.
A few weeks back I saw an Sony APR-24 for free up there with auto locator, spares, cables etc. I need another APR like I need a hole in my head, so to me it wasnt even worth a tank of gas to go haul it home.
Chris Marcelli
New member
I could see a Studer-type 24 track making a comeback for the simple reason that studios seem to have and use them. Nothing in the home market though.
altruistica
Member
'Will Analog Multitracks ever be made again?'
No...in a nutshell.
Al
No...in a nutshell.
Al
Hammerstone
Out of style
Wish I could say yes. Really wish I could. I want there to be multitrack machines made again. But it's about as likely to happen as people around the world settling their differences with arm-wrestling matches instead of wars.
Before tape machines are made again, people need to change. I look around me and all I see are people who care more about themselves and most of them can't plan beyond two days in the future; they probably probably have short memories as well. They need to stop valuing ease and convenience over quality. We can't even get consumers to pay for the music they listen to now, it's been devalued so much by radio, illegal downloading, and streaming. If consumers want something in large enough numbers it can happen, but I don't see that they've ever looked deep enough to care about magnetic tape. If they know anything, it's that analog is cool again and records are coming back, and that's as far as it goes, or they chalk it up to "stupid hipsters" and move on. Trying to explain to any of them that a record isn't analog if it came from a digital source does no good because most of them have never had to concentrate hard enough to hear the difference, and what do you say to someone who can't stand the fact that you don't care about their opinion of what isn't cool? Then again, go listen to what people consider music these days and it wouldn't be a surprise. I usually try arguing that people are intelligent and that they can rise above their current state, but sometimes I get so tired of being proven wrong.
A lot of musicians/engineers that do care about the sound are forced into digital recording because it's what their clients want. Then there are the people who for whatever reason, just don't hear The Difference. A lot of studios are offloading their tape machines, and they've made their way into the hands of the project studio crowd. Every studio owner I've talked to in the last few years that still has a tape machine says that no one's asked to use it for a very long time.
I'm a big fan of film and old cameras, and I've learned a few things from that that can be applied to the whole magnetic recording industry:
Manufacturers learned years ago that they earned more profits not only by using cheaper parts and labor, but also because if things were made cheaper and broke down sooner, people would be forced to buy them again. Look at how the software industry runs today: when does the next version of Logic or Pro Tools come out? If someone started making multitrack machines again, they'd be competing against plenty well-made machines still out there that are over 40 years old, but which will cost so much less than what a new one will. There has to be the number of people in place willing to buy a new tape machine to make it worthwhile, and I don't see that that is the case. Right now, I'd say the only question is how long the community we do have can keep the tape manufacturers in business. The machines we do have might well last another century or more, if people can still buy tape to feed them, but the way RMGI and ATR run their business, who knows how long they can keep it up? While I'm sympathetic with people buying NOS or used tape, it seems to me that if people aren't going to keep the manufacturers we do have afloat, tape machines will die a lot quicker than otherwise.
In some ways, the music side has it worse than the photo side. There are people out there selling brand new large format field cameras for $200, made from plywood, and all of the old-time photographic processes from the mid-1800s are still viable. I had a tintype of myself made just a few days ago. God knows how much it would cost to make a tape machine from scratch, but I'm guessing you wouldn't be able to sell one for $200.
Doom and gloom seems to be the words of the day today, sorry. Have I argued this before? I dunno.
It would be interesting to see if a crowdfunded project could be successful in trying to bring back the multitrack recorder, if they could source all the parts. Is there a thread about that somewhere?
Before tape machines are made again, people need to change. I look around me and all I see are people who care more about themselves and most of them can't plan beyond two days in the future; they probably probably have short memories as well. They need to stop valuing ease and convenience over quality. We can't even get consumers to pay for the music they listen to now, it's been devalued so much by radio, illegal downloading, and streaming. If consumers want something in large enough numbers it can happen, but I don't see that they've ever looked deep enough to care about magnetic tape. If they know anything, it's that analog is cool again and records are coming back, and that's as far as it goes, or they chalk it up to "stupid hipsters" and move on. Trying to explain to any of them that a record isn't analog if it came from a digital source does no good because most of them have never had to concentrate hard enough to hear the difference, and what do you say to someone who can't stand the fact that you don't care about their opinion of what isn't cool? Then again, go listen to what people consider music these days and it wouldn't be a surprise. I usually try arguing that people are intelligent and that they can rise above their current state, but sometimes I get so tired of being proven wrong.
A lot of musicians/engineers that do care about the sound are forced into digital recording because it's what their clients want. Then there are the people who for whatever reason, just don't hear The Difference. A lot of studios are offloading their tape machines, and they've made their way into the hands of the project studio crowd. Every studio owner I've talked to in the last few years that still has a tape machine says that no one's asked to use it for a very long time.
I'm a big fan of film and old cameras, and I've learned a few things from that that can be applied to the whole magnetic recording industry:
Manufacturers learned years ago that they earned more profits not only by using cheaper parts and labor, but also because if things were made cheaper and broke down sooner, people would be forced to buy them again. Look at how the software industry runs today: when does the next version of Logic or Pro Tools come out? If someone started making multitrack machines again, they'd be competing against plenty well-made machines still out there that are over 40 years old, but which will cost so much less than what a new one will. There has to be the number of people in place willing to buy a new tape machine to make it worthwhile, and I don't see that that is the case. Right now, I'd say the only question is how long the community we do have can keep the tape manufacturers in business. The machines we do have might well last another century or more, if people can still buy tape to feed them, but the way RMGI and ATR run their business, who knows how long they can keep it up? While I'm sympathetic with people buying NOS or used tape, it seems to me that if people aren't going to keep the manufacturers we do have afloat, tape machines will die a lot quicker than otherwise.
In some ways, the music side has it worse than the photo side. There are people out there selling brand new large format field cameras for $200, made from plywood, and all of the old-time photographic processes from the mid-1800s are still viable. I had a tintype of myself made just a few days ago. God knows how much it would cost to make a tape machine from scratch, but I'm guessing you wouldn't be able to sell one for $200.
Doom and gloom seems to be the words of the day today, sorry. Have I argued this before? I dunno.
It would be interesting to see if a crowdfunded project could be successful in trying to bring back the multitrack recorder, if they could source all the parts. Is there a thread about that somewhere?