Why do they still make vinyl records?

And,... you can't break out a -z- of mexi-brick on a CD cover, either,...

like you could with a 12"x12" foldout cover or double album.

If you haven't broken some smoke out on the album cover of Led Zeppelin IV, then you just haven't lived.;)
 
Re: And,... you can't break out a -z- of mexi-brick on a CD cover, either,...

A Reel Person said:
like you could with a 12"x12" foldout cover or double album.

If you haven't broken some smoke out on the album cover of Led Zeppelin IV, then you just haven't lived.;)

hehe...love that one.
And yes, fact is that when CDs first hit the mass market, records did sound better (warmer) If you listen to any CD recorded 20 years ago (has it been that f**king long???) they are kinda thin and icy. Digital recording has come a long, long, long way.
However the only reason you own CDs today is because you were sold on the idea that they were better than albums. It's a lie. The average joe CAN NOT tell the difference. Just another way for the industry to make you think an album (CD) is worth the $16 you pay for it. (it's not). It's cheaper to mass produce CDs than LPs, yet it drove the price up. If you think I'm wrong, then please explain to me why the record companies have to pay you $3 because of a class action suit against them for price gouging? BTW...each consumer that was in on the suit (and it wasn't made REAL public ) got $3.00, however there are about 3 lawyers that made millions off it...again the consumer if ripped off at every end.
 
Have anyone seen those picture lp's. You know the ones with artwork printed on the actual record. Are you not supposed to play those? I dont know....
 
tjohnston said:
Have anyone seen those picture lp's. You know the ones with artwork printed on the actual record. Are you not supposed to play those? I dont know....

Of course you can play them:D
 
Re: Re: And,... you can't break out a -z- of mexi-brick on a CD cover, either,...

Toker41 said:
The average joe CAN NOT tell the difference.

Sure they can. The CD is the one without the scrathes and clicks.

Honestly, that was the big selling point. I don't remember anybody claiming that CD's actually sounded better.
 
Sure they did....."Perfect Sound Forever" was the specific claim and slogan that they went by.

Also.......my records have extremely low levels of pops because I take proper care of them and have a cleaning machine that I use religiously.

As for the differences......I have had probably a couple of dozen people of varying backgrounds from 15 year old kids to good studio players and every single one of them could hear the difference and I'd guess 90% of the time they prefered the vinyl. And they couldn't just tell the difference because of clicks......on my clean records there basically are none. But there is a discontinuity to digital that 16bit/44.1k sampling isn't enough to hide and it affects the sound.

To me a good example of this is amp modelers like the POD. I have all the main modelers...a POD, a J-Station and a V-Amp and although they are wonderfully fun tools, there is a lack of 'snap' to them that I just can't stand. Now lots and lots of guitarists think they're great with no flaws........but I clearly hear the difference and it's not simply because of pleasing 2nd order distortion. It's because a digital recording is a series of steps rather than a continuous curve and also, the time delays, as small as they are, of converting A/D....doing the processing and then D/A conversion. I don't care how fast it does it...it still takes some amount of time to do all that and that, I think, 'causes the loss of instant response or 'snap' that I hear.

NOTE: I am not claiming to hear a delay in the digital stuff, I'm just saying that it alters the transient response and thus, the sound.

Also....16bit/44.1 cuts off reverb tails which makes things not sound quite right even if you don't know why.
I have three nice stand-alone audio CD-burners and I can always hear a slight loss of .....I don't really know how to describe it, but a slight loss of something when I record a LP.
 
Lt. Bob said:
Sure they did....."Perfect Sound Forever" was the specific claim and slogan that they went by.


Yes, exactly. Notice that "forever" part? The point was that the CD was less sensitive to wear and tear and scratches. 'perfect' sound is rather a non-entety. Nothing is perfect.

Also.......my records have extremely low levels of pops because I take proper care of them and have a cleaning machine that I use religiously.

That's nice. I'm pressty anal about my vinyls too, but my favourite ones still have pops clicks and scratches in the beginning, because of all the fudged attempts I made in putting the needle down. ;)


On a related note:
I have on many Vinyls noticed a 'pre-echo' of the sound. I've always assumed this to be because of tape print-through, but I just realized I never ever heard that on a CD.

Discuss.
 
The "pre echo" comes from the sound being heard at the needle before it is heard at the speakers.

As for amp modelers...
...they ALL suck! I have not EVER heard one that sounds like the amps it claims to model. NOTHING sounds like a Boogie, but a Boogie. Only amp modeler that comes close enough to being good enough for me to by is the Fender Cyber Twin. If nothing else, at least it sounds like a Twin Reverb. At least a Fender can sound like a Fender, but a POD can only sound like a POS.

ok..nuff venting...back to the CD vs. LP.

And BTW...
...when CD hit the mass market the hype was "can not be damaged and sounds better than records because it's digital..at TRUE reproduction of sound" Truth is they are more sensitive than LPs.
 
The "pre-echo" is caused when a fairly loud passage is next to a silent space such as at the very beginning of the album. What happens is that the heavily modulated groove actually cause a modulation of the supposedly quiet spot on the other side of the groove from the recorded place. So when your needle is in the lead-in groove......it will essentially pick up the sound from one groove ahead (yes I know it's all only one groove per side but you know what I mean)

And I basically agree wth Toker about the modelers. I can't stand them live but I use them when it'll make my life a lot easier. I also don't pay any attention to the amps they are supposed to model. I just mess with them 'till I find a sound I like. And for some reason they work a lot better in the studio.....just not live.
 
Bob, they are all suppose to be the answer to recording a guitar direct. They all fail. I Haven't found a way to do it yet. I've come across a couple of things that will pass, but nothing that really sounds good. Can't say I've tried the Cyber Twin in the studio yet, but man it really does sound good in the store. GC thru me out one day, because I played it for 6 hours and still wasn't looking like I was going to buy it. Hehe. I don't like to be rushed!
Again, can't say the amp modeling part of it really sounds like the amps it's trying to model, but that aside, it is a really nice amp.
 
Live, I've gotten to where I'm just flat-out a tube guy.
I have an Ampeg ReverbRocket, an Ampeg V-2 with a 4-12" cab., a Fender Hot Rod deVille with 4-10"s and my favorite.....a Fender Vibro-King which oddly enough, has 3-10"s.
But a lot of my recording comes late at night when my wife's asleep so I can either accept the deficiencies or not record....it's up to me. :D
 
yea, I have the same late night recording problem. I use a preamp (cheap DOD) just for getting the ideas down, then go back the next day after I've kicked the wife out for a few hours, and redo the parts. I guess they do have thier preproduction uses....just not in any real production of mine. Do you have any of your stuff posted anywhere? I would love to hear some of it.


P.S. 3 10" speakers? Odd. I had an old (believe it or not) JBL amp that had 6 10" speakers in it when I was a kid. Thought that was odd, too. And BTW....there's nothing like a tube amp! I'm a Boogie man myself.
 
The Vibro-King is one of their Custom Shop amps...retails for about $2600. It has three of those alnico U-shaped magnet speakers.

Yes, I have some stuff posted but not much of it right now is guitar oriented and some of it is very old (I've been doing the home studio thing since 1970).

Still there are three songs up that are recent.

Life #9 is a collaboration I did with crawdad. He wrote and did the song and I added horns.

Let's Burn Down the Cornfield is all me.

'The Blues" is another collaboration and I'm fairly proud of how cohesive it came out since we were all in different parts of the country and have never met. Crawdad did one rhythm guitar and one ride (the dirty one) and Erichenryus played drums on it....he used V-Pads. I'm doing everything else, all the horns, the bass, another rhythm guitar and the clean rides.....oh yeah, and the vocals. here's the link....let me know what you think.
http://www.nowhereradio.com/wondercow/singles
 
Wow, Bob. I LOVE your stuff. I would love to know how you pulled that off on the Blues? I am finding myself wanting to work with different kinds of music, but most of the people I work with are rockers only. If I could do things in different locations like that, it would open many, many doors.

Man I love these blues tunes. I downloaded "if I only had some pot" hehe. OK, if I share your songs with my buds? I've only gotten to arrange horns, and work with horn players once, tune just happened to be called "the Blues". Had to rename it for the album (for BS reasons) so I named it "Just Another Day (the blues)". The song is also posted at Nowhereradio.com. It never really crossed my mind to do a "real" blues tune with real horn players. I've been getting so lost in my keyboards lately that I have forgotten the fun you can have with real instruments (horns, winds, strings). Your tunes have inspired me....hehe.
Was that A drums or E-drums in The blues?

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=2878&alid=-1
 
Toker41 said:
The "pre echo" comes from the sound being heard at the needle before it is heard at the speakers.

Nope. Not only did I check that, it would also imply a delay around one or several seconds, which simply impossible in a pure analog amplification chain without build in delays.

Lt. Bob said:
The "pre-echo" is caused when a fairly loud passage is next to a silent space such as at the very beginning of the album. What happens is that the heavily modulated groove actually cause a modulation of the supposedly quiet spot on the other side of the groove from the recorded place. So when your needle is in the lead-in groove......it will essentially pick up the sound from one groove ahead (yes I know it's all only one groove per side but you know what I mean)

This sounds more reasonable.

As for amp modelers...
...they ALL suck! I have not EVER heard one that sounds like the amps it claims to model.

I have yet to find one that I think sounds like an amp. ;)

...when CD hit the mass market the hype was "can not be damaged and sounds better than records because it's digital..at TRUE reproduction of sound"

OK, if you say so. That wasn't the pitch in Sweden, but maybe Swedes are smarter than the rest of the world, what do I know? :)
 
After seeing records for sale for 25 cents a piece I think Im gonna buy a record player. What are some good names?
 
If you are going to buy a turntable....get a good sounding one.
Do NOT get a direct-drive....you want a belt-drive.
And you want something with an inert plinth. You can get an entry level Sumiko ProJect for a couple of hundred and the money will be well spent. Also Music Hall and several others make some around that price point.
I don't know the e-mail address but look for a place called The Needle Doctor. It might be Needle Doctor.com
I buy most of my stuff from them and they have a very large selection of cartridges and turntables from $200 up to $10,000.
They are knowledgable (sp?) and helpful.
 
regebro said:
Nope. Not only did I check that, it would also imply a delay around one or several seconds, which simply impossible in a pure analog amplification chain without build in delays.

K, I stand corrected. To be honest I was reaching with that one, didn't really sound right as I was typing it.



OK, if you say so. That wasn't the pitch in Sweden, but maybe Swedes are smarter than the rest of the world, what do I know? :)

Yeah, it was pretty much the pitch. But what do us Americans know?? After all, we took VHS over Beta.
 
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