altruistica
Member
Looking excellent Miro, well done.
Look forward to hearing something from the new desk.
Al
Look forward to hearing something from the new desk.
Al
Trident 24 London - my "new" console
- Thread starter miroslav
- Start date
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
That's cool, it makes me feel less indulgent in my own studio investmentI don't have many other hobbies that are big time/money sinks. Playing, writing, recording, or simply futzing around or fawning over gear...like you guys said, there are people in the world sinking just as much or more into boats, cars, green fees, country club memberships.
My wife actually laughed when I called this my hobby. It didn't connect as equivalent to gluing plastic models together on the kitchen table.
Anyways, beautiful room and setup there man. I bet it's a joy to work in that room.
I've gotten that kind of puzzled perspective a few times from my family...but I've been sunk so deep into the whole recording/studio thing for many, many years now...that I could probably park a Neve in the middle of my living room (if I could ever afford one), and the only comment I would get would be, "How long is that going to stay there?"
There's not much surprise anymore to my studio extremeness.
I would always say in the past..."Well, would you rather I go hang at the bars...or maybe I could go to Vegas and just piss some money away"....etc.
That said...I've been living a single lifestyle for awhile now, and no kids to feed and put to school...so the studio is it for me, and I can splurge without feeling too guilty.
Not to mention, the only thing that keeps the mental illness in check is the studio...so no one's complaining.
Seriously though...besides being a studio, it's really also like a sanctuary and a rehab center too...all three rolled into one.
Thanks for the studio props, guys. A bit of work, but I'm very happy without how it all turned out.
Yeah...I'm now getting back to the music finally. I've got a bunch of songs ready to be mixed...and this Trident is going to get plenty of mixing time.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Sooooooooo....I finally completed the full refurb of the Trident. 
For anyone not wanting to read the whole thread...when I got it, it had the power supply and distribution completely upgraded, a couple input channels, couple group channels, master and FX/Aux channels modified by Jim Williams at Audio Upgrades...and several input channels had been re-chipped with Burr Brown OPA134PA chips from the stock TL071C chips. The channels were never recapped.
What I just completed over the last couple of weeks was a complete re-cap and re-chip of the remaining input channels and all the group channels.
I de-soldered over 1200 capacitors and re-solder 0ver 1200 new ones.
I don't want to do that again any time soon.
I installed Burr Brown chips in all the inut channels, and went with new TL071C chips in the group section.
Also, while doing that, I did some mods to the EQ sections of all the input and group channels...taking the stock HF and LF shelf filters from 10kHZ and 100Hz and changing them to 12kHz and 70Hz respectively. On the input channels I also modified the variable HPF from the stock 10Hz-400Hz range to a 5Hz-400Hz...since the HPF is always in the signal path when you engage the EQ section(there is no off)...so that way when turned down to the 5Hz position it will effectively be removed from the circuit, whereas at the 10Hz position could have some effect on the very LF stuff.
Oh...I also replaced all 52 faders (input and group channels) with brand spanky new ones I got from the UK.
Apart from a couple of minor group channel issues that I'm sorting out (I don't use the group channels all that much, anyway)...so far the console sounds really, really sweet...but I've only just completed and started passing audio, so as everything breaks in and settles, I'll get a better perspective, though I can say that now the console is back to original spec and then some, with the upgraded chips and the mods...plus, I put in higher grade Panasonic capacitors which are high-temp caps and I don't expect I will have to worry about them for at least another 30 years...which is long enough for my needs.
Here's a few pics....
This is the original channel strip...you can see all the blue colored capacitors and the old fader.
Here's what 1200+ caps in a bucket look like.
New Panasonic caps installed.
More of the same...the red caps are the new ones I used for the EQ mods.
And the new fader and wiring...had to extend the wires for the new fader lugs.
For anyone not wanting to read the whole thread...when I got it, it had the power supply and distribution completely upgraded, a couple input channels, couple group channels, master and FX/Aux channels modified by Jim Williams at Audio Upgrades...and several input channels had been re-chipped with Burr Brown OPA134PA chips from the stock TL071C chips. The channels were never recapped.
What I just completed over the last couple of weeks was a complete re-cap and re-chip of the remaining input channels and all the group channels.
I de-soldered over 1200 capacitors and re-solder 0ver 1200 new ones.
I don't want to do that again any time soon.
I installed Burr Brown chips in all the inut channels, and went with new TL071C chips in the group section.
Also, while doing that, I did some mods to the EQ sections of all the input and group channels...taking the stock HF and LF shelf filters from 10kHZ and 100Hz and changing them to 12kHz and 70Hz respectively. On the input channels I also modified the variable HPF from the stock 10Hz-400Hz range to a 5Hz-400Hz...since the HPF is always in the signal path when you engage the EQ section(there is no off)...so that way when turned down to the 5Hz position it will effectively be removed from the circuit, whereas at the 10Hz position could have some effect on the very LF stuff.
Oh...I also replaced all 52 faders (input and group channels) with brand spanky new ones I got from the UK.
Apart from a couple of minor group channel issues that I'm sorting out (I don't use the group channels all that much, anyway)...so far the console sounds really, really sweet...but I've only just completed and started passing audio, so as everything breaks in and settles, I'll get a better perspective, though I can say that now the console is back to original spec and then some, with the upgraded chips and the mods...plus, I put in higher grade Panasonic capacitors which are high-temp caps and I don't expect I will have to worry about them for at least another 30 years...which is long enough for my needs.
Here's a few pics....
This is the original channel strip...you can see all the blue colored capacitors and the old fader.
Here's what 1200+ caps in a bucket look like.
New Panasonic caps installed.
More of the same...the red caps are the new ones I used for the EQ mods.
And the new fader and wiring...had to extend the wires for the new fader lugs.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
One more thing...
For anyone planning to do a major recap, where you need to desolder hundreds of components off of PCBs...do yourself a favor and get one of these: HAKKO FR 300 Desoldering Tool
There are other brands/models...and I did look at some cheaper knock-offs, Made in China, but after reading breakdown issues people were having, I went with the HAKKO, which is a major player in soldering/desoldering tools...paid a bit more for it, but still got a great deal on it.
You can desolder with a manual "sucker" tool and a soldering iron when you're doing a few components at a time...but they don't do as good a job as a vacuum desoldering gun. The gun is VERY precise, VERY fast, so you don't risk damaging the thin traces.
It worked beautifully and was worth every penny. Had I tried to do this job with a manual solder sucker...I would have gone nuts and would neevr have gotten as clean a job as fast.
For anyone planning to do a major recap, where you need to desolder hundreds of components off of PCBs...do yourself a favor and get one of these: HAKKO FR 300 Desoldering Tool
There are other brands/models...and I did look at some cheaper knock-offs, Made in China, but after reading breakdown issues people were having, I went with the HAKKO, which is a major player in soldering/desoldering tools...paid a bit more for it, but still got a great deal on it.
You can desolder with a manual "sucker" tool and a soldering iron when you're doing a few components at a time...but they don't do as good a job as a vacuum desoldering gun. The gun is VERY precise, VERY fast, so you don't risk damaging the thin traces.
It worked beautifully and was worth every penny. Had I tried to do this job with a manual solder sucker...I would have gone nuts and would neevr have gotten as clean a job as fast.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Just want to toss out a long-overdue accolade. Very nice job. Impressive amount of work in such a relatively short time. Must feel good. That London has found a good home.
I think my prototype Tascam 12x8 console had about 1,100 caps. And I used a manual vacuum solder pump. It seemed like it would never end...except it wasn't so bad because for some reason I actually like recapping things.
Anyway, looking forward to further reports once you really get used to using it. With those power supplies and the mods you've done its one-of-kind and I betcha pleasing sonically.
I think my prototype Tascam 12x8 console had about 1,100 caps. And I used a manual vacuum solder pump. It seemed like it would never end...except it wasn't so bad because for some reason I actually like recapping things.
Anyway, looking forward to further reports once you really get used to using it. With those power supplies and the mods you've done its one-of-kind and I betcha pleasing sonically.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Thanks...coming from you, it's appreciated, as I know you know what it's like doing this kind of shit!
I'll be honest...that HAKKO desoldering gun is a big reason I was able to complete the work so quickly....though I also did just put my nose to the grindstone and kept at it, rather than doing one or two channels, here and there, over time.
Once the old caps were out...soldering in the new ones was much faster with the clean holes left by the gun, and fairly straightforward.
I had a large magnifying lamp, and I just did everything assembly line.
First remove all the old caps...then I started with the input channels...dropped in all the new caps, bent the leads...repeated that for every channel...then I turned to the soldering, and just grabbed one channel strip, soldered the leads, put it aside...and then move on to the next one.
When all were soldered, I then went back and cut the excess leads that were sticking out from the caps.
Then I moved over the the group channels...same as above...and then I turned to the EQ mods...and so on.
Finally...I did the new faders.
I find that with these types of larger projects...the assembly line approach works the best.
Had I tried to do one channel at a time, complete from desoldering stage to new caps to mods...then the next channel....it would have dragged out more. With assembly line, you get the repetition going, and your process becomes very precise and you don't have to think for every move, you just repeat everything.
Anyway...tonight I was doing some more basic tests, looking for any pots/switches that needed some cleaning, etc...and I think tomorrow the console will be back for normal use, and I should get some more perspective and opinion and how the whole thing sounds having now completed this comprehensive refurb.
So far, I'm hearing a very fresh/new sounding board...there is an open clarity that was not there before...and I really love the sound of the EQ.
I'll post back after the weekend with a better impression.
I am looking forward to mixing on this baby.
I'll be honest...that HAKKO desoldering gun is a big reason I was able to complete the work so quickly....though I also did just put my nose to the grindstone and kept at it, rather than doing one or two channels, here and there, over time.
Once the old caps were out...soldering in the new ones was much faster with the clean holes left by the gun, and fairly straightforward.
I had a large magnifying lamp, and I just did everything assembly line.
First remove all the old caps...then I started with the input channels...dropped in all the new caps, bent the leads...repeated that for every channel...then I turned to the soldering, and just grabbed one channel strip, soldered the leads, put it aside...and then move on to the next one.
When all were soldered, I then went back and cut the excess leads that were sticking out from the caps.
Then I moved over the the group channels...same as above...and then I turned to the EQ mods...and so on.
Finally...I did the new faders.
I find that with these types of larger projects...the assembly line approach works the best.
Had I tried to do one channel at a time, complete from desoldering stage to new caps to mods...then the next channel....it would have dragged out more. With assembly line, you get the repetition going, and your process becomes very precise and you don't have to think for every move, you just repeat everything.
Anyway...tonight I was doing some more basic tests, looking for any pots/switches that needed some cleaning, etc...and I think tomorrow the console will be back for normal use, and I should get some more perspective and opinion and how the whole thing sounds having now completed this comprehensive refurb.
So far, I'm hearing a very fresh/new sounding board...there is an open clarity that was not there before...and I really love the sound of the EQ.
I'll post back after the weekend with a better impression.
I am looking forward to mixing on this baby.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
OK...this will probably be my last entry in this thread for the Trident 24 London...unless people post follow-up questions.
I hope some of the details are helpful to anyone doing similar things, and especially for any other Trident 65/75 Series owners.
So after listening to some audio through the console the last week or two, my overall view is pretty much what I initially heard when the refurb was completed. The console now has more clarity in the HF...much crisper, in a good way...and the low end is tighter and punchier.
I know this may sound cliché...but it's like a film was lifted from the console's sound...like when cleaning a pair of glasses, everything is now more "HD". I don't mean that its now super clean in a "sterile" way....but prior to the complete recap and re-chip, compared to now, the sound was a little "looser" and not as defined, plus with the stock TL071CP chips, it had a touch of lower mid "honk"...compared to the BB OPA134PA chips.
It's not something that would have stuck out when just listening to the stock console...but I had some BB channels already in it before re-chipping the rest, so I could easily compare them.
I like the sound of the BB chipped channels, so now all of my input channels are BB, except for two, which were modified substantially before I got it...and they have their own chips/sound.
I actually like the BB channels better, but the two that were modified by Audio Upgrades are just more transparent, and more cleaner...so I like having them too, as that sound will come in handy for some things.
The group channels I re-chipped with new TL071CP chips...and it's like a lot of people said...the newer TL chips do sound much better than what they were making 30 years ago. I have enough spares of the new TL chips, that I may take two of the input channels and switch out the BB chips with the new TL chips. That way, of the 28 input channels, I will have the two heavily modified channels, plus two with the new TL chips...and the remaining 24 input channels would be the BB chips. So I'll have some tonal choices...and still have 24 channels that all sound the same, if I need that during remixes, as I usually come out of my DAW with 24 channels....and my tape deck is 24 tracks.
So the big questions...
Was the full recap worth the time, effort and cost?
Absolutely...I have zero regrets, and with a 25+ year-old console, it really was a necessity.
I think when we use one console for many years, we don't hear that slow degradation that occurs as caps age and dry out and lose their properties. Chances are the caps could continue to "function" for many more years, but they are out of spec or close to it, and the sound quality, especially in the HF (dullness) and LF (looseness) starts to creep in...and those are the two things I immediately noticed after...much more articulate HF and tighter/punchier low end.
Was the re-chip worth the time, effort and cost?
For me it was.
Some people might prefer the sound of the stock TL chips...but even then, I would suggest getting new production TL chips and replacing the 30-year old ones.
That said...some folks may simply prefer the sound of the old chips, and/or want to keep the console stock...so you need to at least experiment with a couple of channels before you decide on chips.
To me, the BB chips take the console to a much better sound quality level. They sound more frequency balanced than the TL chips and I think they provide a more 3D sound that is fatter/bigger.
Doing group channels with new production TL chips instead of BB chips was a twofold decision.
I don't use the group section all that much, maybe just for occasional cue mixes and monitoring. I mean, I doubt I would ever need those channels for actual mixdowns.
Also the TL chips at about $ 0.50-0.60 each are substantially cheaper than the BB chips which are about $2.50 each. When you need about 200 chips to re-chip just the 24 group channels...mmm...yeah, it's a big difference in cost between them. It made more sense to spend the money on other things....like getting all new faders, for both input and group channels, as the stock faders were pretty used up, and cleaning was just barely working on some of them.
AFA the mods I did to the EQ section...I'm very happy with them. I think they really open up the usefulness of the EQ section with the new ranges the mods created...moving 10k Hz up to 12k Hz for the HF shelf, the LF shelf 100Hz down to 70Hz, and moving the variable HPF down from 10 Hz to 5 Hz.
The EQ sounds really good, and now it's also more useful, IMO.
I think this console really benefited from the refurbish and mods, and I should have a lot of years with it.
I'm really looking forward to doing mixes on it, and it will be a nice combination with both tape deck and DAW.
Last edited:
WhiteStrat
Don't stare at the eye.
Miro--
I just now saw this thread. Great job on the Trident, and great job on the overall studio space. I've recently moved and I'm in the process of setting up my new space. I found this quite motivating as I'm thinking of going through my console in the new space.
In the old space, I find that I spent so much time figuring, patching and reconfiguring all the various front end components that I had little time left for playing and recording. (The curse of too many options, perhaps?) I bought a console a few years back (nowhere near as nice as yours) but I never fully integrated it.
I'm thinking that with the move, it might be a good time to make a change and try something different. If I just all my inputs going to one source (my console), I could leave things as they are and actually record! My board is 32 channels, and my digital back end is based on a 32 channel interface, so I really could connect everything (drums, guitars, keys, vox, etc.) and leave it! Then I could hit a power switch and go.
I suspect I may lose some sound quality using my board vs. some of my outboard preamps, but at this point, I'd rather improve my productivity and make some music. (I haven't recorded seriously in a couple years.)
Anyway, sorry for rambling. You've given me some motivation--thanks for taking the time to share all this.
WS
I just now saw this thread. Great job on the Trident, and great job on the overall studio space. I've recently moved and I'm in the process of setting up my new space. I found this quite motivating as I'm thinking of going through my console in the new space.
In the old space, I find that I spent so much time figuring, patching and reconfiguring all the various front end components that I had little time left for playing and recording. (The curse of too many options, perhaps?) I bought a console a few years back (nowhere near as nice as yours) but I never fully integrated it.
I'm thinking that with the move, it might be a good time to make a change and try something different. If I just all my inputs going to one source (my console), I could leave things as they are and actually record! My board is 32 channels, and my digital back end is based on a 32 channel interface, so I really could connect everything (drums, guitars, keys, vox, etc.) and leave it! Then I could hit a power switch and go.
I suspect I may lose some sound quality using my board vs. some of my outboard preamps, but at this point, I'd rather improve my productivity and make some music. (I haven't recorded seriously in a couple years.)
Anyway, sorry for rambling. You've given me some motivation--thanks for taking the time to share all this.
WS
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Why not include a patch bay(s) if you don't already have them?
That way, you don't have to run through the console if you don't want to...and of course, if you set it up in a normalled configuration, then, then you could leave all those things patched to the console, and just break the normal to take the console out of the equation when needed...?
I know it's a PITA sometimes patching, patching, patching...but I find it helps me focus on what I'm trying to do, and what my signal path is, rather than having things pre-configured, which kinda makes me forget, and then I would default to using stuff in that one way.
I do have some stuff normalled...but because I switch a lot form tape deck/console to DAW to DAW/console, plus the outboard gear...it's actually easier to just have it all on the patchbay and patch as needed.
I'm sure you can find a working setup that fits your workflow, and that's really the way to do it. I mean, there's no better/right way...it's all about your preferences.
That way, you don't have to run through the console if you don't want to...and of course, if you set it up in a normalled configuration, then, then you could leave all those things patched to the console, and just break the normal to take the console out of the equation when needed...?
I know it's a PITA sometimes patching, patching, patching...but I find it helps me focus on what I'm trying to do, and what my signal path is, rather than having things pre-configured, which kinda makes me forget, and then I would default to using stuff in that one way.
I do have some stuff normalled...but because I switch a lot form tape deck/console to DAW to DAW/console, plus the outboard gear...it's actually easier to just have it all on the patchbay and patch as needed.
I'm sure you can find a working setup that fits your workflow, and that's really the way to do it. I mean, there's no better/right way...it's all about your preferences.