Transferring 8 track reel to digital and dbx issues

omiimiish

New member
Back in 1988 our band recorded an album at a studio on a tascam 8 track reel with dbx. I do not remember the model reel to reel or if the dbx was an external unit or built in. The tape has come into my possession and seeing as none of the band or crew has a copy of the original album, I plan to remix it transferring it to my digital format.

Questions I have are:
1. I am looking at machines on eBay, namely a TSR 8 and has built in dbx1, is that compatible to anyone's knowledge to the dbx of the late 80's? "Will it work?" is what I am asking.

2. Anybody have experience doing these transfers?

3. Any compatibility issues with between Tascam reel 8 tracks?
 
A TSR-8 should do the trick, yes. The recorder was most likely a TASCAM 38, 48 or 58 with external DBX, since the TSR-8 was launched in either 88 or 89 and I believe it was the first model with internal DBX.

Be aware that Ampex tape prior to 1995 can go sticky and may need to be dehydrated prior to the transfer. Look up 'sticky shed' and 'tape baking' for more information.
 
thanks for the info, we did use ampex tape so I will check that out, i appreciate the post very much, very helpful!
 
Oh, something just occurred to me. I was assuming the tape is 1/2" wide on a 10.5" spool, because you were looking at the TSR-8.

If the tape is actually 1/4" wide on a 7" spool, the machine you need is the TASCAM 388.
 
our bass player is sending me the tapes, he said they seem dry and not sticky. Is the stickiness obvious to the touch? I have not followed up with that yet.
 
Nope not obvious to the touch. but you spool it up and the next thing you know it is gunking up your heads and guides, and can get your machine to slow to a crawl and sometimes even stop. Ask me how I know.

I think the Ampex stuff with the logo near the bottom of the box is ok. I know for a fact the stuff with the logo more towards the middle is crap. I had some that was NOS and sealed. It still had sticky shed. I think tape made after the late part of 1994 is ok.

There is a sticky in this part of the forum that will give you all the education you need on the subject.
 
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Yes on the TSR-8 for being compatible with the older machines and it's the only 1/2" 8-track with integrated dbx NR.

And yes if you used backcoated Ampex tape like 406 or 456 in 1988 it will have sticky shed syndrome. Mid to late '80s is some of the worst stuff for that.

Do want to mix it in the analog domain or just straight transfer of the 8 tracks to 8 tracks of digital, and remix digitally?

Another option would be to send the tape to one of us that can do the transfer for you. I own a TSR-8 with brand new heads in perfect spec and I do the tape baking to fix the sticky shed problem as well. Send me a message if you would like it done for you from someone who does it regularly.

If you want to get back into analog recording and do this yourself, spend some time in the research phase before buying a machine or attempting the baking process. When buying a used machine there will usually be some issues, some repair or calibration at the very least. We'll help you along whichever way you want to go.
 
Beck, what kind of price are we talking for baking and transfer to digital? I have a Tascam 24 track digital unit that I would remix with as well as using some other software to effect tracks.
 
make sure the seller packs that deck in thick styrofoam sheets and double boxes it the same way. have it insured for the full amount including shipping. have the seller put do not drop stickers all over the box. those decks weigh around 75 pounds. i bought a 42B and UPS played dropsee with it. it was destroyed. make sure that TSR-8 is in good working order. iirc they have a problem with relays. also there should not be any problem transfering from tape to digital with or without dbx. there are also studios that specialize in transfering tape to digital and that would be the best route to go. you could also have a copy of that tape made using new ATR tape.
 
I'm doing exactly this right now. I have a Tascam TSR-8 and I'm Transferring my "33" 1/2 inch Ampex 456 analog tapes
to Cubase 7. Yes I'm using the built in DBX on the TSR-8 as well, but I also have 8 channels of DBX 150'S that I use sometimes.
IMO -- I think it's important to DECODE the tracks before they hit the computer. I'm also using a Tascam 1641 interface for my computer
and I simply plug the 8 outputs of the Tascam TSR-8 into radio shack transformers that are plugged into the 8 Mic inputs of the Tascam 1641.
I setup a project in Cubase using 8 separate inputs making sure everything goes to it's own track on Cubase 7. Yes you may need to Bake your tape if it has SSS.
I bake most of my Ampex 456 tapes in a NESCO Food Dehydrator at 130 degree's for 4 hours and let it cool down for a day. IMO the Baking lasts
roughly 30 day's. I also own a Tascam 48 ob but it's being serviced at the moment. The Tascam TSR-8 is a good machine--keep it clean & calibrated and
it will work like a charm.

Jack :thumbs up:
 
it would be packed by ups store. i will make sure it is insured

i am going to double check all this stuff before purchasing
 
it would be packed by ups store. i will make sure it is insured

i am going to double check all this stuff before purchasing

UPS stores do the WORST packing I have ever seen. However, If they pack, you at least have a chance at covering any damage or loss. If the sender packs it, no matter how well, in the case of a claim they always blame it on poor packing. I know this from personal experience and two family members who have worked for UPS..

Have the packer read the sticky packing 101 and ship through USPS. Insure it very well. They will let you insure something for whatever value you place on it and will actually honor claims. I ship LOTS of stuff and have found them to be the best. Of course your experience may vary.
 
The tsr8 should decode the dbx? as the tracks are played to the tascam dp24? Who services machines if needed?

Yes, the dbx on the TSR-8 is excellent and will expand (decode) your dbx encoded tracks from another machine without issue. The DBX brand dbx 150 modules are good, but the only reason to use outboard dbx is if you had a machine like the 38, 48, 58, etc, with no onboard dbx.

Follow this Tascam link to find authorized service centers in your area:

Service Center Search | TASCAM
 
In reference to the Ampex tape. The tape to look out for is the Ampex 456.

All other versions of the Ampex tape did not suffer from the shredding problem anywhere near as much.

If the tape is the 456 type UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES put it through your recorder before baking as you will have a very good chance of loosing everything that is on the tape.

If you are going to undertake the baking process yourself make sure that you undertake a lot of reading on the subject because temperature and time are quite critical, I would also ensure that the spool/s are metal rather than plastic --- although all 456 tapes were originally shipped on metal spools.

Once baked, play the tape (preferably only once) fairly soon after the tape has cooled. In other words, have everything ready to go and remember that 456 generally required the recorder to be biased for a level 6dB higher than other tapes, so if not re-biasing check the level. If the tape was professionally recorded (but I doubt that in 1988 an 8-track 1/2" would have been recorded in a professional studio), it should have a series of "line-up" tones recorded at the head of the tape and these should have been recorded at the recorder's 0Vu mark.

If the tape has been stored tail out (and it should have been to prevent print-through), I would suggest that the tape be re-wound by the tape going straight from spool to spool rather than going across the heads and through all the tape guides --- you will probably have to manually hold various levers, cover end of tape sensors, etc to make the spools go into the fast forward/rewind mode. This will help with the shedding as the tape will not be touching anything. While doing this be sure not to touch the oxide side of the tape or it could shed.

Re the baking process, I would suggest that rather than trying to do it yourself, that you find an organisation or someone who has had considerable experience doing this --- you only have one bite of the cherry !!!!!

As a bit of history, 456 tape when released was considered the best tape to use by most studios, BUT because of its shedding problem there have been thousands of tapes and recorded material, lost forever. BUT, in 1988 I would be surprised if the recording was actually done on 456.

I have just done a quick search and found the following which might be of interest:

Ampex filed U.S. Patent 5,236,790[16] for a baking process ("A typical temperature used is 54 °C (129 °F) and a typical time is 16 hours") to attempt to recover such tapes, allowing them to be played once more and the recordings transferred to new media. The problems have been reported on tapes of type 406/407, 456/457, 2020/373, but mainly the 456 tape.

Hope the above helps in your quest.

David
 
Stick to the Sticky Shed Help Thread at the top (No pun intended). Never rewind a tape before baking. There are a few sites that have this wrong. It's an error that started with one source and has spread. Wiki has it wrong. The wiki sticky shed entry and others came along after we had this all down right. Wiki is so full of error it should be taken down. I see bad info all over the web... gearslutz, Tape-Op, etc, etc.

- You should not rewind a tape first.
- You should not use the tape right away. Give it overnight or a day to stabilize.
- Nearly all types of Ampex backcoated tape before a certain date has Sticky-Shed. 406/407 is as bad as 456/457
- The original convection "baking" patent is in the Sticky Shed Help Thread from 2007. The patent was granted in 1993. We learned a lot more later about which tapes have the binder problem.
- Ampex 456 was the original Tascam recommended tape for the TSR-8 (But now I'm getting picky, so I'll stop there) ;)
 
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