Is there some kind of tape deck that writes and reads rather than having to rewind.,

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elijahlucian

New member
Hey. I just had a brainwave the other day.

Is there a tapedeck out there that writes and reads to add a bit of natural tape saturation to the odd digital recording or softsynth? I think the reason I never tried is because I honestly cant stand the thought of playing an entire take into a reel to reel, rewind, record, align. etc.

Has this sort of thing been invented? haha.
 
If you have a three-head deck, you can pass a signal through it in record and have it play back 1/15th second later. Some people do this and correct the delay afterwards in whatever DAW they use. Obviously it will stop when the reel runs out but you can reuse the same reel over and over.

There have also been tape simulators that use a pair of magnetically-coupled heads, and this will have no delay at all. But it won't sound much like a tape deck either because there's no actual tape involved.
 
Yes, it has, but you can just as easily monitor live off the repro head of any 3-head deck and record that directly to the DAW in one pass. The delay will be consistent enough that you could simply realign tracks by some set amount after passing them through the deck.
 
jpmorris said:
If you have a three-head deck, you can pass a signal through it in record and have it play back 1/15th second later.
Click to expand...

We mastered our last album like this, ran the full mix to tape while monitoring off the playback head. 1/2" 2 track machine at 15IPS. Great mastering, I took the mix to an analog mastering studio and we used all valve comps and eq and then tape for mastering, sounded fantastic. If you have a good tape machine, you could just mix to tape then play it back into the computer. However notice I said good tape machine.

Alan.
 
sweetbeats said:
Yep it has...

And of course you can always go the poor man's route if you have a 3-head machine...you can record and monitor the repro head while recording for on-the-fly analog goodness, though of course there is a delay because of the space between the record and reproduce heads.
Click to expand...

So, let's talk about good machines for this. I have an Otari MTR-10 that, I think... can do this. Do you guys know of other decent machines that aren't out of reach for us little guys?

I think the Otari 5050 can do this as well, some versions at least have the heads.

Sadly, I believe my Tascam TSR-8 cannot.
 
Any machine with separate record and reproduce heads can do this.

You are correct the TSR-8 cannot, along with the MSR series. Those are 2-head machines.

Otari 5050 series yes...MTR series, yes (10, 12, 15, 20).
 
Thanks for all the replies. Yes! I would love to know any machines that can do this!

Is it basically any machine that has 3 heads? does it have to be an expensive one? People in my town are selling all kinds of things:

Revox A77
Teac 3340 Reel to Reel
Sony TC-277-4
Sony TC-200

What should I be looking for? basically all I want it for is to dirty up sounds, not really maintain any great fidelity. I mean fidelity is great, but not the most concerning thing at this time, mostly I would just like to be able to bounce it back to my daw in one pass.
 
elijahlucian said:
basically all I want it for is to dirty up sounds, not really maintain any great fidelity. I mean fidelity is great, but not the most concerning thing at this time, mostly I would just like to be able to bounce it back to my daw in one pass.
Click to expand...

There are other things that can "dirty up" your sound...and frankly, tape is not one of them.

Also...your "one pass" better be your very first track to the DAW, otherwise you will spend more time trying to get the timing aligned with other tracks than it's worth doing it for what you think you will get off the tape AFA "analog tape goodness"...IMO.

But hey...amuse yourself.
 
miroslav said:
There are other things that can "dirty up" your sound...and frankly, tape is not one of them.

Also...your "one pass" better be your very first track to the DAW, otherwise you will spend more time trying to get the timing aligned with other tracks than it's worth doing it for what you think you will get off the tape AFA "analog tape goodness"...IMO.

But hey...amuse yourself.
Click to expand...

Hey man, thanks for the input. I have no problem with aligning audio. What do you mean "my one pass better be my first track...." If I am running the tape in and out on the same track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTbBR7SJ_44 <- just like this. I might be looking at slight variations in timing, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

How about instead of being an elitist and saying "you're stupid" try - "There are other things that can "dirty up" your sound...and frankly, tape is not one of them. You might want to try........ {insert example here}" otherwise you just sound like a jerk, and people don't like you. #howtowinfriends.

To be honest, I don't see a lot of reason to take your word for it based on your youtube channel. All it is is you playing to backing tracks that you didn't even create...

Sooooo... have you done this? Do you actually know what you're talking about?
 
Where did I say "you're stupid"...? :facepalm:

I said exactly what you repeated - There are other things that can "dirty up" your sound...and frankly, tape is not one of them.


That said...your response is certainly comes off stupid.

The YT video you show is about creating delay...not about making things sound "dirty"

Since you are recording these tracks to a computer... you can think timing differences may not be a bad thing...but if you do that with multiple tracks into a computer, you can start to loose the feel of the whole thing...but you can find out on your own how well it works.

Also...WTF does my YT channel have anything to do with anything? :D
You've gone there to what....get a sense of what I know about tape recording..???...when in fact all I'm doing in the videos is playing some guitar. That was the point..me playing guitar.
There's nothing there intended to show off my tape recording skills.

And yeah, I really do know what I'm talking about, especially when it comes to tape recording, and if that comes off as elitist...well, you asked. :)

Oh...and save your twitter wit for the twitter twits.
 
No you just said "tape is not one of them", without adding solutions. Thus you are just being an elitist troll. Helpful forum posters add advice and solutions, not just opinions.

So what you are trying to tell me is that pushing a signal hard onto tape does not distort the sound? It does not change the sound in any way? because if you truly do claim that, then I propose you indeed do not know anything at all. Then again, if you say "tape distortion sucks" Then that's a completely different (and entirely subjective) story (opinion). Some people like vanilla, others like... different stuff.

The youtube video I referred to illustrated how bouncing tracks to and from the DAW will not mess up the timing, I did not post that to demonstrate tape saturation... I will get a very precice time (150ms I think) that I will neeed to push the audio that is bounced back in the daw mix. I am not talking about multitracking on tape.

Also I checked your youtube becasue it's the only thing linked, and I wanted to see if you actually had any credits or SOMETHING that would make you a little more than a forum troll. but you have no recordings, no credits. Nothing but your word to be honest. And anybody can say "i know what I'm talking about" in a forum.

finally. #hashtags are everywhere, not just twitter, welcome to the 21st century. This last bit of elitism and downspeaking really does speak to me that you are just a jerk with nothing better to do than troll forums and make yourself seem big.
 
Dude...I've been on this forum for 7 years.
I don't need to present my "credits" to you or any other forum newb before I post my opinions. :facepalm:

You wanted to make audio "dirty". Tape recording doesn't really do that.
You will probably distort the cheap input preamps on most consumer tape decks before the tape goes "dirty"...and that's why tape isn't what you are looking for if you want "dirty"
Just get any old preamp, and hit it until it distorts to your liking...if that's what you want.
Get some tube pres if you want to get tube distortion.

To get serious tape saturation and distortion WITHOUT first distorting the input pres on the deck...you would need to step up to a serious pro deck. Most people with pro-sumer or consumer tape decks think they are getting tape saturation distortion...when in fact it's the electronics that are shitting the bed before the signal ever reaches the tape.

Also...it's not about aligning the initial 150ms (or whatever it ends up being) tape delay....it's about doing multiple tracks and trying to get all of them aligned, because without a sample/frame accurate synchronizer to control the tape deck transport...each pass will fluctuate differently due to mechanics and the nature of moving tape. A DAW is constant from start to finish.
And...the guy in the video was demonstrating tape slap-back echo...not really how to bounce multiple tracks to a DAW.

What else to you need...a YouTube video demonstration of all that I've explained to you...?
 
Hm...

Member since July 2009 with over 14,000 posts and 21,000,000 in rep power is called an elitist troll by somebody who has been a member since last month with 5 posts and negative rep.

I appreciate it when the community mood is welcoming and helpful. A newbie flaming on any forum just comes off as a self righteous distraction. I don't frequent any other forums really, so maybe that is more common elsewhere, but it appears you already know all the answers you are looking for. You look like the elitist troll IMO. I wish it was different, but maybe you'd find yourself less upset somewhere else.
 
miroslav said:
Also...it's not about aligning the initial 150ms (or whatever it ends up being) tape delay....it's about doing multiple tracks and trying to get all of them aligned, because without a sample/frame accurate synchronizer to control the tape deck transport...each pass will fluctuate differently due to mechanics and the nature of moving tape.
Click to expand...

The plan was to record to tape and monitor off the play head and capture that in one pass, not recording to tape and then capturing it in a separate pass. It might not null against the original but it won't drift. The time offset will be essentially identical from start to finish.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
The plan was to record to tape and monitor off the play head and capture that in one pass, not recording to tape and then capturing it in a separate pass. It might not null against the original but it won't drift. The time offset will be essentially identical from start to finish.
Click to expand...

Precisely my point.

Also I am not going to put all my tracks to tape. I said dirty up sounds not push everything thru tape

You could have simply said "to get the sound you're looking for you will need a high end deck because "xxxx". Instead of lending helpful knowledge you acted like a know it all snob. The whole reason I visit forums for a month every 5 years. Can't stand you people who need your ego stroked rather than just simply helping out.

Thanks to everybody else for helping out. The high end tape deck is a good point. Somebody is selling an Otari MTR-12 stereo 1/4". So I will probably look closer at that.

You stated "tape will not give you dirty" which is in fact false. Thus why should I trust anything you say.

Rep? How many years? All that says is that you're more concerned about a forum reputation than actually making music to me. So why would I take your advice? You are simply another forum jerk Miroslav I don't care how long youve posted or how many posts you have. That doesn't really help strengthen your credibility.

Anyways I'll come back to forums again in another 5 years. Gonna go play with music. Not snobs
 
bouldersoundguy said:
The plan was to record to tape and monitor off the play head and capture that in one pass, not recording to tape and then capturing it in a separate pass. It might not null against the original but it won't drift. The time offset will be essentially identical from start to finish.
Click to expand...

Yup...I got it...but the offset is based on the quality/stability of the tape mechanics.
If you do that more than once, all those tracks then have to be in sync. Your assumption then is that the tape deck will always fluctuate the same on ever track...which isn't always the case, and you end up moving one track one way, only to find out the other track needs to go the other way...etc...etc.
He does also at some point mention "bouncing tracks" which to me implies multiple passes.
This is why the "poor man's CLASP" works only sometimes and up to a point. The real CLASP system is employing a full synchronization setup.


I said he should try it and see if he likes the results, because I know that tape fluctuations without any synchronization will be "in the ball park" but I've see even a few samples/frames of differences from pass to pass, track to track, make a very noticeable difference in the feel of how the tracks all sound running together...but the OP wants my "credits" to prove what I know...even though I've only been recording to tape and synchronizing tape decks to DAWs for about 25 years now, but it's just my word...I don't have a YouTube video showing how I record and how I bounce tape tracks to a DAW. ;)

elijahlucian said:
Anyways I'll come back to forums again in another 5 years. Gonna go play with music. Not snobs
Click to expand...

Don't tease us...
...and when you come back in 5 years...I'll still know more than you about tape recording...plus 5 years. :)

Your problem is that you started off by saying that I said "you're stupid"...and everything that followed was about you being butthurt over something I never said. :rolleyes:
Now I wish I had said it.

All I said was tape wasn't meant for making things dirty...and that multiple passes to a DAW are not easy to sync up just by aligning their start points. There was nothing "you're stupid" in anything I said.
Of course...you, like so many nebws around here, get quickly upset when you hear something that doesn't meet with your "brainwave" expectations.
 
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