Teac 80-8 [Project](Newbie)

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YoungCoconut

New member
Hi! I'm new to this forum; it's wonderful to meet all of you, and I wanted to ask for some help. I'm a bit new to analog recording; I was very fortunate to acquire a Teac 80-8 from my local store alongside the Teac 3 Tascam Series Mixer. The tape machine is in really good condition the previous owner didn't let it collect too much dust over the years, and the heads work great. It came with a half inch tape reel, the owners manual, this catalog, and the service manual and I've been looking through them a lot to get the linguistics behind tape recording down.
So of course, the issue. The only issue I seem to run into is that I've been trying to record a simple drum and guitar track, the recordings never seem to line up for some reason and I tried as much as I could to resolve it. I record the guitar first then the drums, and every time I listen back to it on my monitors the drums just seem to be off. I thought of multiple possibilities of why this could be off, but from my personal lack of experience I wanted to ask what you guys think could be wrong. Something tells me that this issue is really easy to resolve and I'm just breezing over it, but who knows.
And again, wonderful to meet you all!
 
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Hi YoungCoconut--- When you record --are you recording off of the SYNC Head
another words the "NORMAL Button must be depressed on your 80-8?
If you record off of the Playback head MONITOR Button on your 80-8
your tracks wll be out of Sync. Easy to have happen at first.

1. record -- normal button
2. playback -- normal or Monitor button

Jack :)
 
Thank you so much Jack!! :listeningmusic: And yeah I guessed it right I completely breezed over the "norm" button, silly me. For some reason unfortunately whenever I'm recording the first channel produces this awful white noise that blocks out the track that's playing which is pretty strange, would you know what's going on with that? Or anyone else of course. I'm going to attempt to debunk it myself but if anyone knows, it would be super helpful so I can save the time and just getting to recording! Thanks again!
 
Also have you tried changing cables going in and out of
your 80-8 from your Tascam model 3. Or change channels
on your Tascam model 3 ouput. Remember the 80-8
and the Tascam model 3 are 40+ years old now and things get tired.
I to have a Tascam model 3 and a Tascam 48ob. I recently had the
Tascam 48 totally refurbished.

Jack :)
 
-jpmorris:
Gladly the white noise stopped but now I'm just having this issue where whenever I play it back on the norm switch it sounds like a large vibrato-like effect coming out now which is a little more frustrating.

-Jack:
I've tried moving the cables around a few times, but I seem to manage to get everything running through the direct out to the input of the machine, with the output running into the line in. Honestly, I also sort of get a little lost with the attenuation switches, along with the eq's below it. I've attempted various switch configurations, but for some reason I get the same feedback with that vibrato-like effect coming out. Then while I'm adjusting them and possibly moving some switches around I get these wild feedback sounds, which then I'm adjusting the master level and monitor level as well.
 
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Hi Youngcocanut--- do you have the manual for the Tascam model 3?
If not you can get a free copy over at HIFI ENGINE.COM create a user name and password.
Try to playback your tracks on your 80-8 from Monitor (Playback Head).
I have a feeling your problem is with patching with your tascam model 3.

Teac model 3.PNG

Jack :)

PS: All Teac model 3's have some little jumper
cables patched from the Cue outs to the Submix in's.
Are yours there?
 
YoungCoconut said:
-jpmorris:
Gladly the white noise stopped but now I'm just having this issue where whenever I play it back on the norm switch it sounds like a large vibrato-like effect coming out now which is a little more frustrating.
Click to expand...

That may mean that the capstan belt is coming loose. The rubber deteriorates with age and needs to be replaced occasionally. Also make sure the rubber pinch roller hasn't gone sticky, since you'll get similar effects if the tape isn't being gripped properly.
 
Alright I have some wonderful news! So I decided to try the second channel, and it played back quite crisp and how it should be. So the real question is why the first channel might be going, which is causing that vibrato-life effect.
 
YoungCoconut said:
Alright I have some wonderful news! So I decided to try the second channel, and it played back quite crisp and how it should be. So the real question is why the first channel might be going, which is causing that vibrato-life effect.
Click to expand...

Let's make sure we're on the same page - is the pitch wavering when it does that? Or just the volume level? If the pitch is changing, it will do so on all 8 channels and that is a sign that the belt or pinch roller is failing.
If the volume is changing (only on channels 1 and 8) but the pitch is staying consistent, that may means that the edge tracks aren't making good contact with the head, may be a tape path issue.
 
jpmorris said:
Let's make sure we're on the same page - is the pitch wavering when it does that? Or just the volume level? If the pitch is changing, it will do so on all 8 channels and that is a sign that the belt or pinch roller is failing.
If the volume is changing (only on channels 1 and 8) but the pitch is staying consistent, that may means that the edge tracks aren't making good contact with the head, may be a tape path issue.
Click to expand...

My apologies, It's just the volume. I recorded on the second channel and nothing odd happened, that defective sound coming from the first channel didn't occur and the track came through clearly. I didn't have any issues pertaining towards the pitch changing. Whenever I tried on the first channel is when the issue arises.
 
Is the 1/2" tape supplied brand new? If, as I suspect it is almost as old as the machine you really need to invest in at least one reel* of new stuff.

Is the 'contact' side of the tape scored? If you look along the tape path in motion does it weave at the top? Such are the symptoms of knackered, oft used tape.

A new reel will cost you around $100 AFAICT and someone else here can tell you the best brand/type # for that machine. Even then, the machine should be 'lined up' for the new tape and you don't seem equipped for that job equipment wise nor (WTGR) "headwise" atmo!

*Not involved any more but you might make a bit of a saving if you can get a tape on a plastic reel, run that off to the spare NAB then dump the old tape back on plastic. I am guessing 1/2" NAB reels are NOT inexpensive these days?

Fork! Thomann want 70 quid for an empty 1/2" NAB with the VAT and shipping! Buy a very decent AI for that!

Dave.
 
The last reel of half inch tape that I bought was £75 from Studiospares (about 9 months ago). I'd go for Recording The Masters SM911 as that's closest to the sort of tape that the Tascam would have been designed for. If you have some old reels of tape of dubious quality (like old Ampex) then you can buy SM911 on hubs and then screw the Ampex flanges to the hubs. Looking at Open Reel Tape - 0.5" it looks like buying tape on hubs will save over £30 per reel.
 
I have an ampex reel that came along with the machine, and something tells me its some pretty old tape. I've been having to clean the tape paths often and the tape seems to shed quite a bit sometimes which is a bit concerning. I just hope I'm not slowly unconsciously destroying the machine as I attempt to get it working. I wouldn't mind possibly looking into aligning the machine if I have to, I've been looking up a lot of info on it and the least I could do is go back to the shop and talk to my friend there, and possibly help me to fix it.
 
YoungCoconut said:
I have an ampex reel that came along with the machine, and something tells me its some pretty old tape. I've been having to clean the tape paths often and the tape seems to shed quite a bit sometimes which is a bit concerning. I just hope I'm not slowly unconsciously destroying the machine as I attempt to get it working. I wouldn't mind possibly looking into aligning the machine if I have to, I've been looking up a lot of info on it and the least I could do is go back to the shop and talk to my friend there, and possibly help me to fix it.
Click to expand...

It occurred to me that the shop should be your first port of call. How was the machine sold to you? "As seen"? "In working order but needs some attention"? AFAICS it was NOT sold as "refurbished to factory specification". If the recorder was sold to you without an agreed qualification in THIS country it would not be "of merchantable quality" and you would have a claim against the shop to put it right or refund.

To my mind a "proper" store selling such goods would have them brought to original spec and they would certainly not supply them with a clapped out reel of tape! They might give you the option of say a 10minute section of tape with response checks on it or a full NAB reel of the right brand which of course would have a cost implication. Has the machine even been PAT tested?!!

All props to you wanting to get into the intricacies of tape alignment but you will need some tricky to find test gear and expensive test tapes Plus a deal of electronics knowledge. BTW "shedding" could indicate worn or badly aligned tape guides.

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
It occurred to me that the shop should be your first port of call. How was the machine sold to you? "As seen"? "In working order but needs some attention"? AFAICS it was NOT sold as "refurbished to factory specification". If the recorder was sold to you without an agreed qualification in THIS country it would not be "of merchantable quality" and you would have a claim against the shop to put it right or refund.

To my mind a "proper" store selling such goods would have them brought to original spec and they would certainly not supply them with a clapped out reel of tape! They might give you the option of say a 10minute section of tape with response checks on it or a full NAB reel of the right brand which of course would have a cost implication. Has the machine even been PAT tested?!!

All props to you wanting to get into the intricacies of tape alignment but you will need some tricky to find test gear and expensive test tapes Plus a deal of electronics knowledge. BTW "shedding" could indicate worn or badly aligned tape guides.

Dave.
Click to expand...

Thanks I appreciate the gesture. The more I think about it, I may return the machine. I'm just have these odd struggles and I'd rather pursue my musical journey without risking this much money on the line when I contrast between tape and just utilizing my desktop. I just wanted to explore some new areas of recording, but I also would like to keep moving along. Honestly I can see myself getting another tape machine in the future, and I've always dreamed of having a machine like this, or a tascam 388 or 38. But like I said I think I might just keep it on hold for now for the better, though I'm never really a fan for throwing in the towel.
I'm glad that you got this information to me Dave, as I mentioned I just don't want to end up using this machine towards the end of its life sooner than what it should be. Have a good one all of ya!
 
YoungCoconut said:
Thanks I appreciate the gesture. The more I think about it, I may return the machine. I'm just have these odd struggles and I'd rather pursue my musical journey without risking this much money on the line when I contrast between tape and just utilizing my desktop. I just wanted to explore some new areas of recording, but I also would like to keep moving along. Honestly I can see myself getting another tape machine in the future, and I've always dreamed of having a machine like this, or a tascam 388 or 38. But like I said I think I might just keep it on hold for now for the better, though I'm never really a fan for throwing in the towel.
I'm glad that you got this information to me Dave, as I mentioned I just don't want to end up using this machine towards the end of its life sooner than what it should be. Have a good one all of ya!
Click to expand...

Guys like Sweetbeats are the real ferric gurus at HR but it seems to me that most of these old machines are way past SBD! Yes, they can be made to work but it cannot be much longer until a major component fails. Big M capstan motor or a power traff. For sure, transformers and motors can be re-wound and new shafts and bearings made but at what cost? I think it will only be studios that can get artists to pay handsomely for "tape sound" that can continue to run these old monsters.

Saw a program a year or so ago about a wonderful "gravity powered" direct recording disc cutting lathe. I shudder to think what it cost to build and I believe it to be the only one in the world. Important it should exist and I feel much the same about Old Tape.

Then of course, there are some very good tape emulation programs around now and "data" is virtually immortal!

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
Guys like Sweetbeats are the real ferric gurus at HR but it seems to me that most of these old machines are way past SBD! Yes, they can be made to work but it cannot be much longer until a major component fails. Big M capstan motor or a power traff. For sure, transformers and motors can be re-wound and new shafts and bearings made but at what cost? I think it will only be studios that can get artists to pay handsomely for "tape sound" that can continue to run these old monsters.

Saw a program a year or so ago about a wonderful "gravity powered" direct recording disc cutting lathe. I shudder to think what it cost to build and I believe it to be the only one in the world. Important it should exist and I feel much the same about Old Tape.

Then of course, there are some very good tape emulation programs around now and "data" is virtually immortal!

Dave.
Click to expand...

Very very true, something else I also tended to realize is that much of my favorite albums are created digitally, plus I think it may be more proficient if I begin my approach to using actual equipment with by starting with a mixer and working down the line. And the more I think about it, I know the price marks for the Tascam 388's are very hefty these days but I would put in my all to save for that machine..it just looks so intriguing.

I did search around quite a bit and I realized that I do have some bad tape unfortunately (Ampex 456 Reel), the least I could think of doing if I can't get a full refund for the machine is actually keeping it and eventually getting a new reel and cleaning it a lot for the time being. I found some reels from ATR for roughly $90 which really isn't bad. Lastly, I wouldn't mind calibrating the machine but then I would have to get the test tape which is more on top of the new reel, the tools, and learning what to do. I wouldn't prefer to send it to get refurbished, I sort of seeing that being lazy with myself. I'd love to gain the experience and knowledge.

But yet again, if I get the full refund then I can most likely manage to invest in a 388 after saving for a little bit. Decisions, decisions, decisions. Thanks to you all again, I'll keep you all filled in on what I'll be doing.
 
Yes test tapes, especially 1/2"and bigger ones are very expensive (and need great cosseting!) but (and I might get some stick for this) you CAN do without if you are not swapping tapes with "major studios" and Dolby NR seems to have lost a lot of its favour?

Armed with a good W/S manual and a decent audio oscillator and AC mV meter you can line a machine up, bias it and get a decently flat rec/play response. With modern OP AMPS you can easily build yourself a very good mV meter using a VU meter movement or splash out on a "proper" dial from say Sifam. In fact, unless/until you have the knowledge and skill to make such a relatively simple device you should not be let loose on a tape machine IMHO!

The PC can give you accurate tones and there is a wealth of free measurement software such as Right Mark Audio Analyser.

Dave.
 
Alrighty so I came to a decision, instead of dropping it all I'm just going to return the mixer and clean the machine. Everything seems to be working quite well and honestly I'd sort of hate to see it go, I'll post up some photos and show you all my progress. It's just going to take some time and patience, and some funds. So far everything is working quite well, all of the channels work, lights work, and the heads look alright. Thankfully I didn't do too much damage to the heads from the bad tape. The inside doesn't look too dusty but I'll keep cleaning it over time and get some oil to keep her in shape.

For a new mixer, I was leaning towards the allen and heath ZED 14 12 channel mixer. I am also open to some recommendations for mixers that fit well with analog.
In some time I'll get some new tape, and see how it sounds with the new reel on.

I really thought about it and instead of throwing in the towel this is my chance to learn about analog which I have been wanting for awhile, so I'm going to take it on. PLUS my dad told me that my uncle has tape machines and has experience, who knows maybe he has some gems sitting in storage that I could potentially take off his hands. :listeningmusic: Have a good one all of ya!
 
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