Tascam MSR16 calibrated for SM900/499 tape

Chilljam

transitional phase
I've just got my hands on a Tascam MSR16 dbx model and I know that most people (including Tascam) recommend 456/SM911 tape for this machine. However, this is my first 1/2" machine and the only 1/2" tapes I have are about half a dozen Ampex 499 and RMGI SM900 tapes. Wondering if the MSR16 will even bias up to this tape? I assume that the DBX won't have any issues with the tape if it's all calibrated correctly?

Used 1/2" tape is pretty hard to come by here in Oz and buying new RMGI 1/2" SM911 here is about $750 for a carton of 6.

Hoping I can utilize what I have until I can find enough used 456/SM911 then I'll re-calibrate the machine back to 456.
 
A couple or three thoughts/questions.

1 - Do you have a +9 MRL calibration to to attempt this in the first place?

2 - Its my understanding that you can just use the 499 tape as is at the current 456 settings and at worst, having the slight under bias, you'll just end up with a slightly brighter response as under biasing tends to boost the highs along with the harmonic distortion...which should be inaudible because of the safer/lower dbx settings which are looking for conservative levels out of the gate. Perhaps test the 499 tape as is and see if the sound is acceptable before you go and change a bunch of settings that may be hard to re-set properly because of the deck being a two head design.

3 - I would be concerned about adjacent channel leakage with the higher levels and possible dbx pumping-breathing issues when you expose it to levels its not specifically designed to cope with.

Disclaimer: I've never owned or used an MSR-16, so I'm only offering theoretical advice here.



Cheers! :)
 
I agree with that. 499 used on a machine bias for 456 will be Ok. The problem is if you ever want to send those tapes to someone else for use on a different machine. That too can be overcome to a degree by remembering to record test tones at the start of the tape.

Also if you go to MRLs website they have many informative subjects there, including how to use things, like how to use +3 or +6 tapes to do a +9 alignment.
 
1 - Do you have a +9 MRL calibration to to attempt this in the first place?

2 - Its my understanding that you can just use the 499 tape as is at the current 456 settings and at worst, having the slight under bias, you'll just end up with a slightly brighter response as under biasing tends to boost the highs along with the harmonic distortion...which should be inaudible because of the safer/lower dbx settings which are looking for conservative levels out of the gate. Perhaps test the 499 tape as is and see if the sound is acceptable before you go and change a bunch of settings that may be hard to re-set properly because of the deck being a two head design.

3 - I would be concerned about adjacent channel leakage with the higher levels and possible dbx pumping-breathing issues when you expose it to levels its not specifically designed to cope with.

Thanks for the thoughts/responses:

1 - No, I will be getting a tech to align the deck.

2 - It's strange that both of you have suggested this which is obviously the easiest option but I was thinking that the narrow track format of the machine + DBX NR would be extremely unforgiving when using tape of different bias and operating level than what the machine is calibrated for. It doesn't hurt to give it a try I guess so will report back on my findings.

3 - Once again, I assumed that if the machine is re-aligned to 499 then 0dB in is 0dB out and the DBX won't be pumping/breathing. My understanding is what causes the DBX pumping/breathing/mistracking are discrepancies between the input and output levels caused by misalignment or THD from either overloading the tape's operating level or machine's electronic headroom.

I understand that crosstalk will more than likely increase significantly but I'll have to see how big of an issue that is in actual real-world recording scenarios.
 
Its really only the bias temperament and THD that would change slightly. The levels would remain the same. The dbx encoding and decoding would also behave as it did before. THD doesn't affect it just as recording distorted guitars doesn't either.

Think of it like going from a 300 HP to 400 HP car engine but still sticking to the speed limit.



Cheers! :)
 
The dbx encoding and decoding would also behave as it did before. THD doesn't affect it just as recording distorted guitars doesn't either.

I don't understand you here. Doesn't DBX rely on the recording being as transparent as possible?

Input signal ---> DBX NR Encoder ---> Tape

then on playback

Tape ---> DBX NR Decoder ---> Output signal

So if there is distortion added when recording/monitoring from tape, that distortion will be multiplied by 2 (such as THD) because of the DBX NR 2:1 compander on decode. This is my concern and why I think I'll need to calibrate the machine for 499/SM900 before I can use it with any decent sounding results.
 
I don't understand you here. Doesn't DBX rely on the recording being as transparent as possible?

Input signal ---> DBX NR Encoder ---> Tape

then on playback

Tape ---> DBX NR Decoder ---> Output signal

So if there is distortion added when recording/monitoring from tape, that distortion will be multiplied by 2 (such as THD) because of the DBX NR 2:1 compander on decode. This is my concern and why I think I'll need to calibrate the machine for 499/SM900 before I can use it with any decent sounding results.

There is 2:1 and 1:2 taking place as you described but is is specific to level. dbx does not have the ability multiply low level distortion and we are dealing with exactly that: low level THD. Nor does dbx require a clean signal to operate. It's strictly looking for level changes up and down to do its job which is to keep the program content above the tape's inherent hiss levels in a compressed package that can then be expanded on playback to expand that difference in hiss level and make the hiss that much more inaudible.

Let's look at the calibration process to get a better handle on this topic.

Using an MRL tape to calibrate for 499, we are setting only the repro level in this step of the process and we are turning down those levels because the tape level is that much stronger. So, in order for our meter to still show 0vu, we need to turn down the repro level which ensures that the circuitry is now operating at at a lower THD and because there is a very reasonable amount of headroom in the circuitry before audible clipping occurs we are not concerned one iota that any audio distortion will be detected by our human ears. Once that step is completed, the MRL tape is removed from the process completely. Everything else that follows is now concerned with getting the record circuitry to deliver a signal on that tape to equal what the now adjusted repro circuit is look for. So this means that the record circuit is now going to be raised to meet this elevated standard. Are we needing to raise that level an insane amount? No. We're only raising it by 3db, so we're still below the threshold of where the recording circuitry will clip and produce ugly, audible to the human ear distortion. So in reality, the circuitry is still happy and operating cleanly which also means that the dbx circuitry is also still happy because it's not being grossly slammed by this slightly elevated record level.

Now, if we look at using 499 with 456 settings, we will see a theoretical level drop of 3 db because the repro level is turned higher expecting for the weaker 456 flux level and if the distortion was inaudible before, it will now in fact be lower still because you're stressing that circuit that much less. Now, when we move onto the recording level side of this equation with our 499 tape at 456 settings, we are going to see the same levels because nothing has changed or been adjusted.

This is why I used the 300 HP motor verses the 400 HP motor but still keeping to the speed limit laws "parallel example". Yes, you could go faster but you're not going faster because you've set the cruise control to the posted limit. The cruise control can be thought of as the level controls inside your tape machine. Because no level setting have been changed, your levels stay the same.

I realize this stuff can take a bit of time to absorb and get your head around. I didn't learn it overnight and odds are you won't fully get it completely either via reading a couple of posts here. This is why we encouraged you to try it for yourself to see what if any tangible differences can be heard/seen/experienced via simply trying the 499 at the current 456 settings. You will learn more from practical hands on experiments then by just reading about it here.

Please let us know what your finding were.



Cheers! :)
 
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I see there is some confusion about tape types and level setting on this machine. The deck is made for a 250 nWb/M flux density and that is what it should be set for not changed 3 dB or any other amount. Doing this will not gain much S/N and also cause higher record levels offsetting the dBx required encoder in level. This is attempted on other machines and the same results happen- the dBx is messed up.
You can use and bias the machine to any good tape. Just because that tape is a plus 6 or plus 9 tape does not mean you have to change the machine to that level. You can do it on a 1/2 track but when you consider the track width of these channels, it is a bad idea.
You certainly do not need a MRL +9 tape for this deck as it would be the wrong item to use- read the service manual- it says what tape to use.
 
The whole "elevated level" thing was originally used to get away from using DBX/noise reduction when Scotch 996,and later Ampex 499 hit the market .If you are not going to use the DBX then 7-9mv higher on the bias above what's listed in the manual will get you in the ballpark for 499/996/900.I have set up lots of Tascam machines at +6 and neither myself noticed or any of the clients noticed/complained about DBX mis-tracking- but then again they were hitting that tape pretty hard to deliberately create tape "compression" and artifacts...
 
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