Tascam 48 + Tascam 308b + (gulp) patchbays

J

jessestriff

New member
Hi all,

I posted this on tapeheads.net also, but thought it might have veered off-topic a bit, so hopefully I landed in the right spot here.

I've been working with a 48 and 308b on and off for a little while and always made things work for what I needed to do, but never had an efficient setup or workflow (never really dug in to understand all the possibilities of the 308B either). Promised myself this year I'd change that so I picked up a couple of patchbays: a 48 point and a 40 point, both TRS.

I'm new to patchbays, but I've read up and understand them on a basic level. Figuring out the most effective routing for the aforementioned pieces has been giving me a headache, however.

I don't have a ton of effects or outboard gear, so I had been thinking I would assign that stuff to the 40-point bay and use the 48-point for all the Tascam inputs and outputs (both bays are half-normal, save for the last four points of the 48-point bay, which are Thru).

The 308 has a direct out for each of the 8 channels, but since the channels can be assigned to any of the four PGM groups, is it necessary to patch said direct outs to the bay? Is it smarter to just use the four PGM outs, or do all 12 need to be in play?

If it matters, I'll be working alone and mostly just recording one channel at a time, with the occasional second channel for stereo sources.


Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Jesse
 
Welcome, Jesse.

First question I have is why do you feel you need a patchbay?

Is it for the effects?

And why put the tape machine on a patchbay? Do you often need to input sources to the 48 from sources that aren't going through the M-308B? Or do you often send the 48 outputs to inputs other than the M-308B?

If the answer to both of those last points is "no", then what is the reason for the patchbay?

If you connect all your sources to the M-308B, and you always monitor and mix your tape tracks through the M-308B, then there is no reason for a patchbay.

If you don't anticipate ever needing to track more than 4 tracks at a time, then the PGM outs are a great set of outputs for your tape inputs. You see there is a pair of jacks for each PGM out, yes? Like a built-in 'Y' cable, yes? PGM 1 out jacks connect to 48 inputs 1 & 5, PGM 2 out jacks connect to 48 inputs 2 & 6, etc. This allows you, in conjunction with the record arming switches on the 48, to access any of the 8 tape track inputs, or any combination of multiple tape tracks, from any of the M-308B's 8 channel strips.

On the output side of the 48, those should connect to the TAPE IN jacks 1-8 on the M-308B. If you are fuzzy on how the TAPE IN jacks work, I put something of an M-300 series overview on YouTube. It might be a lot of irrelevant info for you, and it focuses on the M-312 and not the M-308, but there might be something helpful in it:

YouTube

As far as the other patchbay for "outboard gear" give us some more specifics on what you have and how you use it and we can go from there.
 
sweetbeats,

Thanks a lot for the reply and video link. I'm sure it will be helpful.

The answer to your first question is probably naivete. Initially I did just pick one up for the purpose of routing effects. And you got me on your laser points. I simply thought the efficient way to do it was have everything all right there, and that it would stop me from having to constantly be reaching behind the mixer, plugging and unplugging.

My gear list is pretty minimal:

Symetrix 501 Stereo Compressor
Fostex 3070 Stereo Compressor
Alesis Midiverb 4 (Stereo)
Yamaha R100 Reverb (Mono)
Time Machine Echo unit (Mono)

...and then a handful of mostly mono guitar pedals (analog delay, MO-2, OC-2, etc.). I use the pedals more as production tools for non-guitar things and have 3 ft. TS-TRS Y cables for them. The other stuff I use just like anyone else would.

I definitely see where you're coming from about not needing a patchbay, but that's too much to just be hooked up to the 308b, no?
 
Well I understood you to say you were looking at two separate patchbays, one for effects/outboard gear, and one for the 48/M-308B interconnect.

I'm not certain, because you haven't addressed my questions about how you use the 48, but my assumption is there is no reason to need a patchbay for the 48. But for your outboard/effects gear? With only 1 post-fade and 2 pre-fade sends on the M-308B, and with that list of outboard gear, and especially if it is not convenient to access the jacks on the back of the M-308B where you have it installed, that is an exact reason to use a patchbay.
 
Apologies for skirting that question. I was indeed looking at two, but simply because I thought I needed enough patch points for the 48, M-308B and all the effects.

I'm not going to be doing anything out of the ordinary with the 48. Just multi-track recording and mixing. Can't think of any reason why I'd route something to or from the 48 that won't first go through the M-308B.
 
Okay. Cool.

So regarding the 48, you can do it however you want, of course, but how I suggested to interface the 48 with the M-308B in my earlier post is how I would do it, and how Teac intended the M-300 series consoles be interfaced with an 8-track multitrack machine.

Regarding the outboard gear patchbay, forum member bachelorb has put a considerable amount of thought into his setup that includes a multitrack machine, an M-312 and a host of outboard gear including insert and send type effects. Maybe he'll chime in here, but what he's been working through might give you some insight or at least trigger some more focused questions. The last few pages of his thread linked below include some diagrams he's worked up as he's worked through (and continues to work through) his patchbay setup:

Tascam 312B Project

My experience is it takes awhile when you are unfamiliar with using a patchbay to learn how it is best setup for *your* setup, and for what you need out of it...and just to get your head around how your patchbay works (there are subtle and sometimes not so subtle differences in how an individual patchbay can be used and configured).

What make and model patchbay do you have?

I feel like a good place to start is to identify what send and insert jacks you really need access to. Like, you've got insert points on all your input channels and PGM and main outs...do you anticipate needing all of them accessible? If you only have enough outboard gear to occupy half your insert points, for instance, you may not necessarily need all your insert points on the patchbay. Maybe mixer channels 1-4 are your channels you use with outboard processing and you want the flexibility to have quick access to move devices from one channel to the next...so just think about that first...some of your gear is typically only going to be used with your EFF/AUX sends, and some only with your insert points. So divide your gear up into those categories and then consider how many of your insert points you really need ready access to...maybe its all of them. That's fine. Or maybe you're not sure, so you'll setup...*something*...and learn really quick in use "Geez I really need [all of such-and-such]" or "Geez I'm never gonna need those on the patchbay...why did I hook them up" After a couple revisions you get pretty close to a setup that works until you change gear or your process or something, but you learn each time and the configuration of a new patchbay or reconfiguration of an exisiting patchbay gets easier.

HTH get you started.
 
Ha! I've been poking around different forums looking for info on this gear and some stuff goes back to the early 2000s. Funny that I'm right on the heels of such a dense thread. Much appreciated. I copied the info that's relevant to me into a notes document. Will study up.

On page 4 you mentioned that the M312B was designed for use with an 8-track. I've often wondered if that was the case for my 308B, because it seems more like a 4-track/8-track tweener since there isn't as much channel flexibility. Similarly, you two discussed the benefits of being able have twice as many channels on your board as tracks on your recorder.

I don't see why I would need to use all the channel inserts at this point. I've been thinking I'd want one for each compressor, and maybe 3 for the effects that I prefer to have mainlined directly into a channel. The project I'll be working on is going to predominately revolve around a six-track setup:
-Rhythm loop (complied in Garageband and sent via either sampler or the line outs of my Focusrite 2i2)
-Bass guitar (running through a Tech 21 VT Bass rather than out of an amp)
-Mono synth
-Vocal
-Doubled Vocal
-Open track for additional component

The remaining two-tracks may or may not get used, depending on the song.

As far as patchbays, I've got a Neutrik-NYS-SPP-L1 48 point an a Furman PB40. The Neutrik is all half-normal, save for the last four points, which are in thru mode. The Furman is all half-normal.


Really appreciate how specific you get with this equipment. I'd had a hard time finding a thread that wasn't either too off-topic or just too over my head up until now.

Will have some more specific questions shortly.
 
The M-308 is equally well suited to mate with a 4 or 8-track multitrack machine. Having double the input channels as tape tracks is more of a concern if you don’t have inline monitoring capabilities as are found on the M-300 series...so your channel count is more determined by the number of sources you routinely want to have control of via the mixer.

Are you sure you want to use the inserts for your send effects (the multi-effects and reverbs)?
 
I see. Well that's good news.

Regarding the inserts, that's just something I was considering. Not married to the idea at all. What's a smarter use for them?
 
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