Tape to digital transfer (A&H ice 16)

R

RFR

Well-known member
Ok, here's the the deal. I have lots of old 1/2 16 track tapes done on a Msr 16. I have a damn near old stock mint Msr 16. My fomer bandmate has gone totally protools.
What I want to do is bake the old tapes if needed and get the individual 16 tracks as wave files to him so he can edit, mix, etc. in protools. Myself, I have no daw.
I would also like to take these digital files and put them back on new tape without sss.

The allen and heath ice 16 seems perfectly suited for this.
My dilemma is that is costs a grand. I'm not gonna spend a thousand bucks on anything without fully understanding its practicality.
I like that it has 16 in and out and that it is just a converter and recorder. The rca jacks, while a turn off for many , are perfect for my gear.
On the Web,:all I see is it's use for live recording. There is no mention of it being used for my purpose.
Am I the only brilliant person to concieve of this application, or is there an issue that I'm unaware of??

Anyone familiar with it?
 
Your purpose isn't really unique...I mean....it's just 16 analog channels/tracks of conversion happening at the same time.
There are other boxes that can do that, and it's nothing unusual to do. It's nice that it is 16 x 16 in one box...though you can also use a pair of 8 x 8 boxes linked together...etc.
I do 24 tracks off my 2" tape deck to my DAW all the time...I use (3) 8 x 8 converter boxes. Before the 2", I use to do the same thing with my 1/2" 16-track.

Do you really want to buy it just for this transfer process...or do you plan on using it for other things down the road?
It's really your decision if the cost of the unit is worth the purpose.

What's the reason for wanting to put the converted tracks back to tape again if your band mate is going to edit/mix them in the DAW...?
 
He (bandmate) is 500 miles away. I dont have a daw, hence wanting the stuff on tape for myself. Fresh tape rather than the sticky stuff.
At some point I'll go hybrid and learn about ITB.

The dedicated 16 track A&H recorder lind of appeals to my simple mind. Its just a recorder. Hook it up to a board and record and mix through a board. Simple, that I can understand.
Everything else that has that amount of ins and outs is crazy money.

At this point, I'm reading, learning and becoming slightly familiar with this brave new world
Not there yet, thats why i'll ask questions .that may seem stupid to others.
☺
One more thing, it seems as if this unit will enable 16 tracks to be recorded in real time. In other words when it goes to a daw all tracks will be lined up and in time with each other.
 
The tracks should all be in sync in the DAW when recorded all at once.

So if he's 500 miles away...after you give him the files...how will you get them back to the tape...does he have a tape deck too?

How many tapes are you talking about here?
A few reels...or dozens of reels...that need baking and transfers...?

If it's a few reels...shit, I can bake them for you (I have a dehydrator that I've used on my 2" tapes), then transfer them to DAW using my Fostex G16 for playback, and then from the DAW drop them back on whatever fresh tape reels you have, and send you back the tapes and files on a CD that you can then send to your band mate.
It will just cost you the shipping...and you don't need to buy the 16 channel converter.
Of course...if you are eager to get the 16 channel box and get your digital feet wet...then go for it. I think that box should do the job, though I have not read the specs or manual closely yet to know its full capability.

Also...if you go for it...you don't need to run the tracks through a mixer, just go right from the tape deck to the box, and then from there to the DAW...assuming you just want what's on the tapes...a direct transfer.
Now, if you're going to be doing some kind of mixing/processing as you do these transfers...then I can see a purpose for a mixer.
 
I did some editing to my previous post while you were responding...


I use Echo Layla24 boxes. I have 24 channels of A/D/A. They can do up to 96k...but these days I'm just using 48k.
 
That's a wonderful offer miro.
I have a bunch of stuff as in dozens. But right now I'm concentrating on a few choice reels.
One of the reasons i want to get it on tape is cause there are half finished good songs. Long story short, got involved in an album project and during that time the band broke up. Bingo! Songs unfinished.
Thanks for the offer, but isn't the fostex dolby c? The tascam is DBX. Dont remember if it was used or not, but if so, sounds like compatability issues.
 
Yeah....the Fostex is Dolby C.
Only option would be to turn of the NR and go that way...but honestly, you may already have bigger issues than the NR...if the tapes are old and sticky and need to be baked. I'm not sure how much sonic quality will be improved or retained after the second generation back to new tape.

Here's another thing to consider.
If the tapes have bits-n-pieces of unfinished songs...not sure how you would want to transfer all that to DAW and back to tape.
I mean...it's possible to say, just run the full reel, non-stop and record into to the DAW....but then those 30 minutes/reel (I assume 15 ips) files will be huge, and they would need to be cut up for DAW use per song, etc....but then you would also need/want them played back non-stop from the DAW as the complete reels, in order to have them go back to tape on new reels in the same manner, and have everything be where it was, in bits-n-pieces same as on the original reels...unless you don't care about that, and you want to have your band mate first cut them up, and then transfer them as individual songs back to tape...rather than as whole reels...???

Honestly...if I was doing this for my stuff...I would transfer those old tapes to DAW and never look back.
I know you say you're not ready for ITB, but if you're going to get the 16x16 converter, you might as well take the next step and get a DAW set up for basic use. :)
The ease of editing/comping, seriously trumps anything you think you will gain sonic-wise putting the tracks back to tape...plus, you would not be dealing with any second generation copy when in the DAW.
I dunno...just doesn't seem like it's worth the effort or the use of fresh/new tape. :D

Save the tape for new tracking projects.
Get your converter and a basic DAW setup, and then run hybrid.
Just work in the DAW with a tape recorder mentality.
Heck, with the 16x16 converter...you would still be able to mix 16 tracks OTB from the DAW out trough a mixer and outboard gear...and while the files are in the DAW before mixing OTB, you can do spot processing and edits that you could never pull off with the tape reels.
A hybrid setup really opens up the production possibilities.

Anyway...the offer stands....but I can appreciate you wanting to do it yourself, your way.
 
Ha! We could of done this all through pm, judging by response on this thread☺
However, could be useful info to more people than just myself. Thanks.
lots to think about.
 
Just to ressurect this topic, and to invite others to this wonderful conversation Miro and I have been engaged in, I ask you this;

What are some of the options for getting
16 tracks all at once in real time to a daw?

looking for a converter that does 16 in and 16 out. Or 8/8 linked. And what's involved in linking them?

Sorry don't know much about this stuff.


I am getting closer to entering the hybrid world though. I got a real powerful pc.

A buddy that does tech work for Google custom made one for me.

I'm not up on all the specs, but it has two drives and a shitload of ram.
one of the drives is solid state, and the backup drive is a conventional hardrive.
It's running windows 7, which is my favorite.

Cool thing is, it's in a one space rack!
Never owned a rackmount computer before.
It has a rack mounted monitor as well.
pretty cool.

Anyway, Im looking to find out more about analog to digital transfers.
How is it generally done?

Pardon my lack of knowledge in the area.
:-)

Ps. @ Miro, you're not excluded from this. :-)
I like your input.
 
Last edited:
We may still be better off doing this with PMs. :D

Simple answer...hit up some online audio stores (like Sweetwater, Musician's Friend, etc) and just search through their Pro Audio/Converter-Interface sections for stuff in your budget range.

There are a few brands that make 16 channel boxes...just make sure the 16 = analog I/O, and not some combination of analog/digital. Like some will claim 16 I/O channels...then you find out only 8 are for analog and the other 8 for ADAT or some such thing.

I'm running three 8 channel converters, because back when, they only made 8 channel converter boxes that didn't require a small mortgage (Echo Layla24), and I needed 24. While I was only using a 16 channel tape deck and could have gone with a 16 channel converter for transfers to the DAW, I wanted to also mix back out of the DAW through my console, and I felt that for that, I would want at least 24 channels to mix down from. If you plan on staying/mix in the DAW once transferred, then you just need as many converter channels as you need to simultaneously transfer.

If when I ever decide to completely upgrade my converters and DAW (I just did a DAW upgrade, and I'm still using the three 8-channel converters, linked together)...I will try to go with a single multi-channel box, rather than linking several together, just because it's cleaner and a bit easier for configuration.
I was checking out the new MOTU 24 channel converter boxes....though with them, you need one box for 24 channel In, and a second one to do the 24 channels Out.
There's also the Lynx Aurora stuff, RME...and you can keep going up in price to the Antelope Audio and Burl stuff....$$$$$

Also...decide if you just want/need a converter box...or do you want some "all-in-one" type box (aka "interface") that also includes preamps, etc.
 
miroslav said:
We may still be better off doing this with PMs. :D

Simple answer...hit up some online audio stores (like Sweetwater, Musician's Friend, etc) and just search through their Pro Audio/Converter-Interface sections for stuff in your budget range.

There are a few brands that make 16 channel boxes...just make sure the 16 = analog I/O, and not some combination of analog/digital. Like some will claim 16 I/O channels...then you find out only 8 are for analog and the other 8 for ADAT or some such thing.
Click to expand...

Haha, maybe you are right miro about the pms.


I have been looking, alot! There are a bunch that trick you. You got adat, spdif, breakout cables etc. That all gives me a headache. Lol.
Thats what attracted me to the A&H. It actually has 16 in and 16 out at a reasonable price. The lack of preamps bothers me none. I got preamps.

I'm just surprised that there isnt more stuff available. I'm not unique in wanting to transfer tape to digital.

@ Boulder sound guy.
another card in my computer is most likely not an option. It looks pretty stuffed to me.

Thanks
:)
 
So then let me ask you...are you not sure about getting the A&H...or you just want to know what other options there are for the heck of it?

If you like the A&H...go with that, otherwise, like I said, check out the bigger pro audio outlets online, and you'll see other options at various prices. I don't think you need to drop serious cash on the upper level stuff. It's going to better if you took all your digital gear to the same level, plus it will have maybe pro options that aren't needed by someone who is going to set up system with one basic SOP...and not need the many other options....so why pay for them.
You want a basic A/D/A converter setup...and frankly, if you plan on tracking analog and then transferring, and mixing ITB...then you really only need 16 A/D channels....and just a 2-channel D/A for monitoring/mixdown.
Of course, if you want to mix back out from the DAW through an analog console...then you'll need as many D/A channels as you want to run through your analog console....so having a 16 or 24 channel A/D/A all in one or two boxes is the way to go.

I've got the option to go 32 A/D/A as I have a 4th box...but I've never once felt that need for more mixdown channels.
Maybe a couple of songs where I had 26-28 tracks, but they were usually additional guitar or keyboard tracks, and I was always able to sum them with the other guitar or keyboard tracks while in the DAW, and then I still only needed 24 D/A for the mixdown.
 
I'm exploring options and at the same time trying to educate myself.

The thing about the ice that i like is that I can pretty much work the way I'm used to. With a console.
And since it works like a tape machine, that makes life easy. Only difference is it stores it either on an SD card or a harddrive.

I can then get a daw, maybe reaper, and start learning editing, and other itb stuff.

Seeing how I'm still living in the ancient world regarding recording, knowing my money isn't wasted is important.

Stuff that goes into my racks, I want to make sure it will give me years of service.

So, I'm cautious, and read and ask questions.

And I do very much apreciate the answers I get.
 
miroslav said:
Glad you posted.
So do you have one, and what's the good, bad, ugly?
I also don't think those are available anymore new...?...looks like they now have the 24Ai and 24 Ao as their big channel boxes.

MOTU.com - Products
Click to expand...

I use a 24i regularly. There's not much to it, connect line level signal to the inputs, get digital audio in the DAW. I never really have to think about it, it just works.
 
Well, well, well. Miro should be happy. He's been trying to push me off the fence for a while :D

I'm off the fence. I pulled the trigger and got the interface. Waiting on A&H to ship to Sweetwater. Should arrive to me in a week or so. Then the fun begins. I'm entering the world of hybrid recording and mixing. Hope I don't drive too many of you crazy with my newbie questions :D
 
Shit. I have the luck of a saint or the luck of the damned. :laughings:

So Im telling a friend about my purchase. He tells me he's getting a apogee symphony, and will GIVE me 2 Focusrite saffire pro40 units with a computer set up with firewire and PT 10.

I can still cancel the sweetwater order as the unit is coming from A&H and they wont bill my card till they ship to me.

So the 2 focusrites seem to be able to do what I want. Will they?????

Please help with any wisdom, as I have none. :laughings:
 
So if I'm reading the specs on the Focusrite Saffire Pro40...it's basically an 8 analog I/O interface (with some other I/O options)...?

OK...you were looking for 16 analog I/O...so two of them will give you that.
I'm not sure how well or easy they work together...but I would think as long as you can connect them both, and your DAW app recognized both...then you would be in business.

I'm running three 8-channel boxes, with old PCI technology cards...and I can use them together, so I'm sure the Pro40 boxes would do it easy.

Only thing...the Pro40 units are combi-interfaces...so you got pres and line inputs, and some digital options...which again, is just a lot more ways you can use them. My interfaces are pure converter boxes...so it's Line I/O...no pres, none of the options you get with the Pro40...but, for the way I work, I prefer that, since all I want out of my boxes is conversion of analog to digital and vice versa.

Anyway...when it's FREE...you take it, say thank you, and make it work. :)
If it doesn't...you can still reorder the A&H.

Maybe some guys who use the Pro40 can chime in.
 
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