R2R newbie tape storage question

famous beagle

famous beagle

Well-known member
As some of you know, I recently got a Fostex 80, and (after a few issues that I sorted out) it's now become my first fully functional multi-track R2R. I've started recording my first song on it, and I'm having an absolute blast -- and I'm also extremely pleased with the sound quality I'm getting. It sounds great to my ears.

Anyway, I hadn't really given much thought to the subject, but I've apparently been storing my tape heads out so far. It's been spooled on about 4 or 5 times so far, and I haven't noticed any issues at all. But recently when I looked in my Musician's Guide to Home Recording book (Peter McIan) for some other information, I remembered it mentioned a bit about tape storage.

The short story is that he said in pro studios, they store tapes tails out. He said this practice dates back to when tapes were stored in pancake form, and since play produces a much neater packing than rewind does, it helped to keep things tidy and prevent the tape from stretching.

So my question is: if you're not storing the tape in pancake form, is it still necessary or provide any benefit to store it tails out?

It seems to me that the pancake storage reason he gives must be correct, because, if you start with a tails out tape, you have to rewind it to the beginning anyway to hear the first song. So ... you're right back where you started if you had stored the tape heads out.

Right? Or am I missing something?

Thanks

P.S. Did I mention I'm having an absolute blast with this thing? :)
 
It's set up by default for heads out. IOW, when you get a new reel of tape, and you're holding the tape logo facing you, it implies that the tape reel be put on the left/supply side...but then, when you are done recording and you RW...it ends up stored heads out.

What I have always done is to never load new tape on the supply side. Instead I keep my take-up reel on the supply side, and I take the new reel, flip it, and load on the right/take-up side.
What that does, is by default, forces you to first RW, which is a good thing, as it will loosen the tape pack and give the tape a once-over across the guides...and it also puts the tape on the left side, where you now have the tape-up real.
Once you RW...if you need to flip the empty new real over to get it right side up...you can do that, and then as you record, it all goes back on that reel, and when you are done, you FW until it's all on that right side and back on you new reel...tails out.

:)
 
Thanks for the info. I read several people say that you should play the tape all the way through at the end instead of FF (or use the "spooling" option if your deck has it), because FF doesn't result in an even wind, which is one of the main reasons to store tails out.
 
I was told it has to do with print through. Im not sure I believe it or not, but...when stored heads out any print through comes through as a faint pre-echo of a loud part. When stored tails out the print through produces a faint regular echo of a loud section/part but its masked by the loud part.

Most pro level studio machines produce excellent packs in FF or RW, so I dont see how that was a driving factor.
 
Interesting. I remember the print through aspect, but I thought it was primarily about the played' tails out being a gentler wrap.
 
famous beagle said:
Thanks for the info. I read several people say that you should play the tape all the way through at the end instead of FF (or use the "spooling" option if your deck has it), because FF doesn't result in an even wind, which is one of the main reasons to store tails out.
Click to expand...

Tails-out is about the potential for print-through...though honestly, with the newer tapes that have a backing layer, you would have to record some serious signal to cause print-through...but then for long-term storage, it's probably safer to just go with tails-our regardless of the tape type.

AF not doing a FF/RW before storing tails-out...mmm...depends on how sloppy your deck is. :)
On my 2" MX-80 deck, the tape stacks as evenly/neatly in FF/RW as it does in library wind mode...so I never bother with library wind. If you watched it during RW, if you didn't hear the whoosh of the tape, you wouldn't think it was even moving...that's how smooth it spools.

My Fostex G16 is the same way, and even my 2-track Otari.

That said, I'm not much for tape archiving, since I dump the tape tracks to the DAW, and at that point, I don't much care about the tape tracks anymore. I mean, I save the tapes, but not for archival purposes.
If I was mixing direct off the tape, and especially if it was for someone else, then the recorded tapes would be archived and I would probably library wind just for the heck of it on the very last usage be for archival storage.
 
mixsit said:
Interesting. I remember the print through aspect, but I thought it was primarily about the played' tails out being a gentler wrap.
Click to expand...


The classic example is Led Zeppelin's "Whole Lot of Love"...where during the brake...you hear a faint "woman"...then "WOMAN"...then again "you need"..."YOU NEED"...
...that was caused by the heads-out wind print through.

The recorded signal printed through the adjacent tape wind, and placed it AHEAD of the actual signal. With tails-out, even if it prints through, it will be AFTER the actual signal, and just provides a touch of delay/ambient effect.

That said...as much as it annoyed the engineers when it happened on the Zep album, it was immediately assumed that they did it intentionally as some new FX...and it added a unique vibe to the recording...so it became a happy accident that worked out to be a benefit.
(Meanwhile the guys in the lab coats were probably all pissed off about it! :D )
 
The print through is definitely why you store tail out, but while we are on the subject of storage, tapes should always be stored standing up, never laying on the side. Also try to store in a dry, moderate temperature place that does not have massive temperature changes. And of course not near magnetic sources.

Alan.
 
witzendoz said:
... but while we are on the subject of storage, tapes should always be stored standing up, never laying on the side. Also try to store in a dry, moderate temperature place that does not have massive temperature changes. And of course not near magnetic sources.

Alan.
Click to expand...


Yup....boxes on edge.

I keep all my tapes in a steady-climate environment. I also toss a desiccant bag in the 2" boxes with the reels, and some larger bags in the two tape cabinets where I keep my 1/4" and 2" tapes.
 
miroslav said:
Yup....boxes on edge.

I keep all my tapes in a steady-climate environment. I also toss a desiccant bag in the 2" boxes with the reels, and some larger bags in the two tape cabinets where I keep my 1/4" and 2" tapes.
Click to expand...

Uh.. you know them absorbents are 'done in, I don't know, a day or so? Less you got them zip locked or air tight some how?
 
Well...it depends on the changing environment and how extreme it goes.
If it's always humid, then yeah, they will get saturated and no room for anything more unless you dry them out in the micro for a minute or so.

With the humidity changing, they dry out on their own in time.
I mean...I just use them to keep things balanced for those times during the summer months when the humidity might go up a bit, but they are in an air conditioned, steady climate room...and the rest of the year, it's either dry or acceptable humidity.

To seal them I would think is kinda pointless, because I would have to seal them with the tapes...and if could seal the tapes air-tight, then no need for the desi bags.
 
I don't think a pro/well designed deck winds and *tighter* in FW/RW versus Play or library wind.
You might get a smoother stack, with no tape edges sticking up even a hair out of the pack...but the sensors on the pro decks will keep things pretty uniform at any speed. Like I said earlier...my MX-80 will RW/FW smooth as glass.

IMO...the key to a smooth, even wind isn't so much the speed....it's the reel.
If you have a wonky flange or some imbalance to the reel...it wobbles...and that's what screws up the wind.
 
^^^^ +1

I get packs better than the new pancakes or reels in play, FF, RW or library (2" or 1/4"). Its machine quality, setup and reels. However with horizontal reels, if you stop mid wind and fuss about and lose tension you will get a turn that isnt perfect. Thats cause the tape falls to the flange when you lose tension. With a proper reel and a machine in adjustment, the tape pack doesnt touch either of the flanges.
 
Some recorders have a function called spool, this is a slower fast forward (or a faster play) that you use to store the tapes at the end of the day. A very handy function.

Alan.
 
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