Physicist at IBM says: magnetic tapes superior storage media!

cjacek

Analogue Enthusiast
Do Burned CDs Have a Short Life Span?

John Blau, IDG News ServiceTue Jan 10, 8:00 AM ET

Opinions vary on how to preserve data on digital storage media, such as optical CDs and DVDs. Kurt Gerecke, a physicist and storage expert at IBM Deutschland, has his own view: If you want to avoid having to burn new CDs every few years, use magnetic tapes to store all your pictures, videos and songs for a lifetime.

"Unlike pressed original CDs, burned CDs have a relatively short life span of between two to five years, depending on the quality of the CD," Gerecke says. "There are a few things you can do to extend the life of a burned CD, like keeping the disc in a cool, dark space, but not a whole lot more."

The problem is material degradation. Optical discs commonly used for burning, such as CD-R and CD-RW, have a recording surface consisting of a layer of dye that can be modified by heat to store data. The degradation process can result in the data "shifting" on the surface and thus becoming unreadable to the laser beam.

"Many of the cheap burnable CDs available at discount stores have a life span of around two years," Gerecke says. "Some of the better-quality discs offer a longer life span, of a maximum of five years."

Distinguishing high-quality burnable CDs from low-quality discs is difficult, he says, because few vendors use life span as a selling point.

Similar Limitations

Hard-drive disks also have their limitations, according to Gerecke. The problem with hard drives, he says, is not so much the disk itself as it is the disk bearing, which has a positioning function similar to a ball bearing. "If the hard drive uses an inexpensive disk bearing, that bearing will wear out faster than a more expensive one," he says. His recommendation: a hard-drive disk with 7200 revolutions per minute.

To overcome the preservation limitations of burnable CDs, Gerecke suggests using magnetic tapes, which, he claims, can have a life span of 30 years to 100 years, depending on their quality. "Even if magnetic tapes are also subject to degradation, they're still the superior storage media," he says.

But he's quick to point out that no storage medium lasts forever and, consequently, consumers and business alike need to have a migration plan to new storage technologies.

"Companies, in particular, need to be constantly looking at new storage technologies and have an archiving strategy that allows them to automatically migrate to new technologies," he says. "Otherwise, they're going to wind up in a dead-end. And for those sitting on terabytes of crucial data, that could be a colossal problem."

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20060110/tc_pcworld/124312
 
Interesting...

That's kinda scary -- I have lots of stuff on CDR's, simple because I didn't have any other way to record it at the time.

I've seen the effects of CD rot -- I once bought some cheap software from some bootlegger at a flea market (microsoft office 2000 premium for 7 bucks? OK!)

It's been a few years, and I can clearly see pinholes in the medium of the disk, where light shines through. 2 or 3 files are permanantely unreadable on those disks.

Clearly pressed CD's have a longer lifespan? I would think...

Aw hell. What if I don't wanna mess with magnetic tape OR CDR's. I could just buy one of those Vestax Vinyl cutters, and say, "if you want your own master, gimme another 15 bucks, and I'll cut you a vinyl!" :D

Until recently, tape drives were commonly used as backup at the Firestation Studios. The only 2 downsides to the format itself are: 1- it takes TIME to write/read data, and 2- there is no real-time data verification. So if an error occurs while writing data, you never know it happened until you go back and try to recall the file. But, of course, if your drive is in good shape, and you use tapes properly, that shouldn't be a huge big deal. Pretty reliable format for storage purposes, so I've heard.

I remember seeing somebody backing up their Pro-Tools session on a HP data tape downstairs, and once it finished backing up (a few hours later,) He tested the data, and tested if he could open each file, and play it back successfully from the data tape. About 4 hours later, I came back, and he was re-writing the tape, because he had found an error in his snare track. 2 hours later, he re-verified, and it was fine. But the whole ordeal took all damn day. At least he can rest assured that it's backed up for years to come.

-callie-
 
Oh great, there go all the inexpensive tape decks!! :rolleyes: :D

I have CDs older than ten years that still play fine. I don't know, it's probably true but not to that extreme. 5 year life span?
 
I've have a few commercial CD's that have turned to crap. One in particular is a Rush CD, where I can hold it up to the light and see thru it. It looks like the coating on the "painted label" side is too thin, and the laser is reflecting right thru the entire disk. It skips and repeats and in extreme case wont play at all.
The actual disk surface is flawless, but the internal flaws have f***ed it up.
If it was analog, there would always be SOMETHING to recover, but not on a CD. I've heard that eventually all CD's will succumb to this kind of disease.
True????? Urban legend?? Yet to be determined??
 
Although the article talks about tape data storage for computers, I really think that it's a much larger issue related to audio as well. CDR's, CD's, Hard Disc Drives etc ... are the medium of choice for many who record/store music, from the home recordist to the bigger studios etc... and I think it is a real issue to be concerned about - storage life of such media.
 
technoplayer said:
I've heard that eventually all CD's will succumb to this kind of disease.
True????? Urban legend?? Yet to be determined??

I guess time will only tell but I've heard the same stuff said years ago and now this original article. It's not a good prognosis.

Well taken care of vinyl and good tapes, on the other hand, have a life expectancy of at least 50 years - and this we know for a fact. Sure, there was the "shed" problem of certain Ampex tape of yesteryear but that's a very isolated issue due to specific binder used. Be that as it may, projects could still be accessed and saved on these problem tapes.
 
Many at the U.S. Library of Congress have the same opinion about tape verses digital medium for long-term music preservation. I have an article around here somewhere (I’ll have to find it) but the consensus was analog tape and more specifically BASF SM 468. The article addressed CD rot as I recall.

I posted it sometime ago, either here or the old Tascam bbs.
 
Ah yes, the beauty of analog tape as a storage medium! :)

I recently picked up a second hand Portastudio 244 that I posted about yesterday in another thread. I got it because I had a number of 4 track master tapes that I wanted to go back to and remix a few tracks. I played a TDK SA90 tape that was used in 1983 for one of my first productions with my original 244 that I bought new and I must say I was really impressed by how smoothly the tape played, with no drop outs and the full fidelity that I remembered it to have from all those years ago.

I was smart enough to store the tapes in the original cases, stacked vertically and away from direct sunlight and any magnetic fields, which is how we are supposed to store any magnetic tape and I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to come back to those same tapes 20 more years from now and work with them again. :)

I've not had as good an experience with storing data on hard drives unfortunately, having gone through 2 hard drive failures where I lost a lot files that I thought were sound as the pound. As well, I've also had a number of burned CD-Rs that after a few short years don't play properly, filled with unreadable files, though this did happen on no-name blanks for the most part.

While we analog enthusiasts can beam happily about the beauty of our format, we still, like everyone else out there, have to be concerned about the immature digital technologies that we love to play and work with and should make time to do data back-ups or else we will lose some very important possessions like all those nice pictures we all take with our digital cameras to name just the tip of the data iceberg.

Cheers! :)
 
The Ghost of FM said:
While we analog enthusiasts can beam happily about the beauty of our format, we still, like everyone else out there, have to be concerned about the immature digital technologies that we love to play and work with and should make time to do data back-ups or else we will lose some very important possessions like all those nice pictures we all take with our digital cameras to name just the tip of the data iceberg.

That's very true.
 
I dont know how true this is but a few years ago some people where saying that a labels glue can leach into the cd and screw up the data.
But this just might be one of those tails that gets started. :rolleyes:
 
I think what the biggest problem is/was with many CD-Rs is the actual chemical compositions of the pitted layer that holds all the microscopic holes that represent the ones and zeros of the data. They basically break down on a chemical level over time and especially so when exposed to too much light which speeds up the molecular breakdown of the discs.

Most CD-R manufacturers warn their customers about the dangers of stickers and certain inks that can also promote the contamination of the disc's surfaces that will hinder the light refraction qualities of the disc which in bad cases, makes the discs unplayable.

Perhaps the solution is to introduce CD stamper technology to the consumer market so that we can all enjoy the superior stability of commercially made CDs?

Wanna build a clean-room, anybody? :D

Cheers! :)
 
I still recall many years ago, when companies started their bullshitting about how the CD, CDR etc ... was the "perfect" storage medium and that it would outlive just about any other format etc ..... As I live, I learn that this and all the other crapola the industry regurgitated over and over was just a big blatant lie to sell digital as the best thing since sliced bread. Meanwhile the only reason for digital was that it's silly cheap to make while making HUGE profits for the companies that make 'em. Then they package it all up with all the bells and whistles, dirt inexpensive of course, make promises to the recording wannabe's that they too can have a hit record and on and on .... It was and is a huge lie to make you buy their crap. I bought in to it years ago and so did a majority of the people outthere. It is the reason Analog is no longer supported as it was throughout the 80's ...

~Daniel
 
cjacek said:
If I had my way I'd stop technology advancements at Vinyl and Tape.
That's an interesting wish but even your wish itself has the evolution of progress built into it. Records came out first with limited lifespans after a given number of plays, were susceptible to scratches and skipping, had limited bandwidth and dynamics and also didn't offer any editing capabilities or very long play times...All of those shortcomings were addressed and improved upon with the advent of magnetic tape.

Magnetic tape recording also has it's known set of shortcomings and in many respects, the intentions and aspirations of it's digital replacements were honest attempts at delivering a more flexible format for sound engineers to work with and for the public to play with. I wouldn't characterize the manufacturer's intentions as evil or strictly capital driven! The only thing we can really say about digital that is true is that it is not a mature technology yet. We have growing pains to still go through with it. We need storage formats that are more reliable. We need interfaces to work with that are as intuitive as what we came to rely upon with good analog gear. We need computers that process all of the tasks we need them to perform with the speed of an analog circuit no matter how many things are going on in the background.

Once digital does mature to a stage where it is not only equal to analog in all of its beneficial fidelity and operational ways, we can at that point happily retire our analog equipment and storage mediums and move on to something truly superior.

We're not there yet.

Cheers! :)
 
The Ghost of FM said:
Once digital does mature to a stage where it is not only equal to analog in all of its beneficial fidelity and operational ways, we can at that point happily retire our analog equipment and storage mediums and move on to something truly superior.

But would you actually do it ? Go over to the "dark side" ? :D Seriously, would you miss the Analog as we know it to be currently ? I know I would. Even if Digital reaches the above goals, I don't think I would ever replace my current setup.

~Daniel
 
The Ghost of FM said:
That's an interesting wish but even your wish itself has the evolution of progress built into it.

Sure, but I'd rather have better and better vinyl and tape products and that by itself the major focus than switching over to an entirely different format. Vinyl and tape perfecting took more than half a century. :eek:
 
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