New Tape Recorders On The Horizon!

It's called supply amd demand. What you just said was "Yes, but that's precisely one of the reasons these machines became extinct - their cost of manufacturing exceeded their value". Unless you can come up with a RADICAL new concept that will slash the cost of these machines to a fraction, that will be true for new machines as well.
 
regebro said:
It's called supply amd demand. What you just said was "Yes, but that's precisely one of the reasons these machines became extinct - their cost of manufacturing exceeded their value". Unless you can come up with a RADICAL new concept that will slash the cost of these machines to a fraction, that will be true for new machines as well.
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Yes but with this line of thinking no one should ever complain then that TASCAM or whomever else doesn't tool up and make analog gear anymore nor that these companies went belly up or started offering cheapo products. We want manufacturers to start making quality open reels again but then we say that "these machines sooner or later will end up used for much cheaper". Something's wrong here ... :confused:

~Daniel
 
cjacek said:
Yes but with this line of thinking no one should ever complain then that TASCAM or whomever else doesn't tool up and make analog gear anymore nor that these companies went belly up or started offering cheapo products.
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Correct.

We want manufacturers to start making quality open reels again
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Then, buy them. Or are you claiming that Studer is not quality open reels? http://www.studer.ch/index.aspx?men...udes/product_sheet_include.aspx?product_id=21
Yeah, it costs $58.000. Yes, that's what an analog tape recorder costs. Do you now understand why Tascam doesn't manufacture them any more?

Stop complaining and put your money where your mouth is.
 
regebro said:
Correct.

Then, buy them. Or are you claiming that Studer is not quality open reels? http://www.studer.ch/index.aspx?men...udes/product_sheet_include.aspx?product_id=21
Yeah, it costs $58.000. Yes, that's what an analog tape recorder costs. Do you now understand why Tascam doesn't manufacture them any more?

Stop complaining and put your money where your mouth is.
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Right, and that's why companies such as TASCAM began offering their versions of "semi-pro" open reels for a fraction of the cost of the bigger boys. Regrettably, I got into music late and didn't get a chance to get a brand spankin' new 4 tracker. Recently I posted that the TASCAM 34B was still being made. I'm sure you saw that post. Anyway, call me a fool for not taking care of my own first, but when I got the money together (about $3000) the 34B's were sold out. I guess my adverstising "push" worked, at least for someone else. Ok, so I missed out but give me a proper and new 4 track recorder and I'm gonna spring for it. I got the money and I WILL put it where my mouth is! ;)

No, I never had an interest in getting a $58,000 Studer. It's too much product for my needs and it costs way too much. No, I'm not gonna support the company with its $58,000 machine for the sake of supporting their efforts. I feel right at home with a TASCAM. Their 34 and 38 offerings didn't cost more than 3 - 5 thou if I'm not mistaken and I feel that was a bargain vs what other "pro" gear cost at that time. It was a way to get these type of machines to a typical home recordist for a budget price. TASCAM delivered and in many cases over-delivered. I truly feel that if a person can afford to buy a brand new car, has a nice place to live and eats good, that he/she can and should be able to afford an 8 track open reel recorder for $5,000. I mean, what is different between that and a car for example ? You mean you need a new car but for your music you can't afford but a $400 used, 20 year old TASCAM 38 ? I don't get that ... :confused:

On the other hand, if you're a poor bastard then I certainly understand .. ;)

~Daniel
 
cjacek said:
Right, and that's why companies such as TASCAM began offering their versions of "semi-pro" open reels for a fraction of the cost of the bigger boys.
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Sure. But we are then talking about $5000 and not $50000. And today, you can buy them for $500. How many do you think are interested in paying ten times the cost to get a newly manufactured thing than to get one in good second hand condition? Right. We are talking about a small group of rich religiously fanatic analog-buffs.

You are prepared to pay $3000 to get a new four-track. Can you really not see how incredibly unusual that is? For that amount of money you can build a complete 8-analog studio second hand. Or, you can buy like a Yamaha AW4416, and get a complete *portable* digital studio and have money over for a bunch of mics.

No, I never had an interest in getting a $58,000 Studer. It's too much product for my needs and it costs way too much.
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And yet, that is the only analog multi-track that is available today. That's where the (incredibly limited) market exists today. The semi-pro market has gone digital, becuase it gives them better sound for the money.

I truly feel that if a person can afford to buy a brand new car, has a nice place to live and eats good, that he/she can and should be able to afford an 8 track open reel recorder for $5,000. I mean, what is different between that and a car for example ?
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The car is useful?

So, no, you don't see how unusual you are. You really think that the main desire of everybody is to have an analog four-track, and you think Tascam have stopped manufacturing them out of pure evilness, or only to tick you off...


You mean you need a new car but for your music you can't afford but a $400 used, 20 year old TASCAM 38 ? I don't get that ... :confused:
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Eh? Since when was $400 used anything an issue? You are talking about $4000 NEW tascam 38s.
 
regebro said:
Sure. But we are then talking about $5000 and not $50000. And today, you can buy them for $500. How many do you think are interested in paying ten times the cost to get a newly manufactured thing than to get one in good second hand condition? Right. We are talking about a small group of rich religiously fanatic analog-buffs.

You are prepared to pay $3000 to get a new four-track. Can you really not see how incredibly unusual that is? For that amount of money you can build a complete 8-analog studio second hand. Or, you can buy like a Yamaha AW4416, and get a complete *portable* digital studio and have money over for a bunch of mics.

And yet, that is the only analog multi-track that is available today. That's where the (incredibly limited) market exists today. The semi-pro market has gone digital, becuase it gives them better sound for the money.

The car is useful?

So, no, you don't see how unusual you are. You really think that the main desire of everybody is to have an analog four-track, and you think Tascam have stopped manufacturing them out of pure evilness, or only to tick you off...


Eh? Since when was $400 used anything an issue? You are talking about $4000 NEW tascam 38s.
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Damn, it's late .. I meant to say: "You mean you need a new car but for your music you can only afford a $400 used, 20 year old TASCAM 38 ?".

Getting back to my example: Why doesn't the person who buys the used 38 use the same logic to purchase a used car and for that matter most everything else ? I see many people buying new this and new that, maxing out their credit cards for this and that and generally spending to live the good life but when it comes to their passion, music in this instance, they get their gear second hand for really cheap and think nothing of it ... ? :confused:

Yeah, a car is useful but a "new" car ? Ok, it's got a warranty and won't fall appart any time soon. One could always save a substantial amount and get a used 10 or 15 year old car, right ? But that's dumb 'cause you'll save in the short term but what about a month or two or six from then ... ? Getting a new car definitely works better for the long term. Ok, you pay more but only once and you'll have no headaches. Same thing with your music and tools you'll use to record. Personally I'd rather pay a bit more and have peace of mind. Sure, I've gotten good deals on eBay but you have no idea how I hated the whole "process". I literally prayed that the gear arrived in one piece or that it wouldn't cease to operate one day. I'd gladly have payed 5 times more to get something currently made. I only did the eBay thing 'cause nothing was available new. In an ideal world, my preference would be to purchase new and the best quality that I can afford that meets my requirements. I'd only purchase once, for life.

Ok, I'm unusual. ;)

~Daniel
 
cjacek said:
Damn, it's late .. I meant to say: "You mean you need a new car but for your music you can only afford a $400 used, 20 year old TASCAM 38 ?".
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Yes, for most hobby musicians such things as getting to and from work are more important than fulfilling some kind of wet analog dream.

Why doesn't the person who buys the used 38 use the same logic to purchase a used car and for that matter most everything else ?
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He does. If he can buy a car that is just as useful to him for a tenth of the price of a new car, he will do just that. And so will you.

The question is why you think people use a completely different logic for one very specific type of equipment: Tape recorders. There, suddenly, you say that
1. people should let go of any reason and start paying insane amounts of money for something that gives them little or no perceived value.
2. Companies should manufacture expensive equipment and sell them at al loss.

This does not compute.

Here. Read up on marginal value:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_theory_of_value#Marginal_Utility

I see many people buying new this and new that, maxing out their credit cards for this and that and generally spending to live the good life but when it comes to their passion, music in this instance, they get their gear second hand for really cheap and think nothing of it ... ? :confused:
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Bullshit. You are very well aware that most musicians (hobby or otherwise) are complete gear sluts.

Stop pretending to be daft. I know you aren't.
 
regebro said:
Yes, for most hobby musicians such things as getting to and from work are more important than fulfilling some kind of wet analog dream.

He does. If he can buy a car that is just as useful to him for a tenth of the price of a new car, he will do just that. And so will you.

Bullshit. You are very well aware that most musicians (hobby or otherwise) are complete gear sluts.

Stop pretending to be daft. I know you aren't.
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Ok, I pretty much agree with you but I'm just so damn tired (have't slept all night) that I'm amazed that I'm still conversing with you when half of my brain is dead asleep. :eek: I'm sure that my replies, in my current "state", may have been incomplete or just not the way I intended so let me just stop right here and not risk further possible embarrassment. I gotta get some sleep ....

Daniel :o
 
No, you said exactly the same thing as you do when you are awake: You try to blame the lack of new cheap taperecorders on a combination of the ignorance of people and evilness of Tascam, when the simple truth is that it's not commercially viable to make tape recorders today.

You are religiously devoted to the idea of getting people to use analog. Just give it up, people do not want to use analog, because they don't think it's worth the money and effort.
 
regebro said:
No, you said exactly the same thing as you do when you are awake: You try to blame the lack of new cheap taperecorders on a combination of the ignorance of people and evilness of Tascam, when the simple truth is that it's not commercially viable to make tape recorders today.

You are religiously devoted to the idea of getting people to use analog. Just give it up, people do not want to use analog, because they don't think it's worth the money and effort.
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I agree. The reason that analog went away is that people WANTED and STILL WANT digital!.

Analog tape IS coming back slowly and I see it being big soon, but in a different way. I see analog as being an offered luxury and big labels will pay to get "That Sound". The analog market is not dead, but in a state of change. Wherever $$ is to be made, someone will be there with a product. ATR is the first step. There is nothing in any analog tapedeck that cannot be re-created by a good machinist or electronics guy. Analog tape will continue to be desired and the next generation will look upon analog tapeing equipment like our generation looks at Neve, or Neuman. Remember, all those old studios trew out Neuman mics because they were perceived as "old trash". Maybe the bad news is that this revival that I predict will probably be more for older pro-machines than consumer machines. I hope that this is not the case, but I fear that it is.
 
Regebro's great at overstating the case.

The fact is, that the street price for a new Tascam 38 was $1995.

That's a big difference from the $58k Studer A827. Like Daniel said, e'body doesn't want or need a 2"-24-track. E'body doesn't need a Studer, for that matter. I know, the 2"-24-track is considered the "holy grail" of analog, but everybody doesn't need one.:eek:
 
A Reel Person said:
The fact is, that the street price for a new Tascam 38 was $1995.

That's a big difference from the $58k Studer A827.
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Well,
1. The Tascam would be more expensive today.
2. The tascam has only a third of the tracks, which per track still is the 1/10 cost I used as an example.
3. It's the principle not the exact dollars that is important here. If a newly manufactured semi-pro 8-track would cost $2000 or $6000 will hardly make a difference, since the semi-pro market is not prepared to pay that much for 8 tracks.

Like Daniel said, e'body doesn't want or need a 2"-24-track. E'body doesn't need a Studer, for that matter. I know, the 2"-24-track is considered the "holy grail" of analog, but everybody doesn't need one.:eek:
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Nobody "needs" any analog recorder at all. Loads of people *want* one. Extremely few are *prepared to pay* more that a couple of hundred dollars.

Thats the point. If you can start making an analog semi-pro 8-track for around $500, you probably have a market. It used to cost $2000. It's not cheaper now.
 
I see people spending $2000 on their computers, soundcards & software,...

& the high cost hasn't seemed to stop them! :eek:

Analog's not that expensive, as compared to their digital counterparts.;)
 
And as usual, you are completely off the mark. I'm moving from tape because of practical issues, not because of cost. I already HAVE a tape recorder. Buying it is not an issue.

If you do not agree with what I say, come with arguments, or just say "I don't agree anyway" or something. If you agree, say so. Don't come with stupid insinuations. (It's things like this that make you an asshole, if you wonder).

(And it's a Delta ;) )
 
Layoff, jerk!

You're no more superior a thinker than any average guy on a bbs, but you are an arrogant prick. Cool yer jets. ;)
 
I never agree with you, regebro. Take it for granted.

I don't subscribe to the "regebro-world-view",... or haven't you heard?......................... :eek:
 
I don't need to buy a tape recorder, either, 'cause I have dozens of them,...

but I'm not going to be recording on my 'puter any time soon. :eek:
 
I'm quoting myself:...

A Reel Person said:
I see people spending $2000 on their computers, soundcards & software,...

& the high cost hasn't seemed to stop them!

Analog's not that expensive, as compared to their digital counterparts.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty complete thought, right there! Chew on it! :eek:
 
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