Need new smaller mixer

fstrat76

Member
I am looking for a new analog mixer for my hybrid studio. I need to downsize.

I want to replace my Tascam M-2600 24-channel 8 bus analog mixer. Its exhibiting some intermittent issues and its just a monster.

My workflow and equipment: I setup a project in my DAW (Logic Pro X) - sketch out the project. The DAW is sync’d with my Tascam 38, track 8 striped with SMPTE. I am using a PPS-2 for sync and an Apogee Ensemble 8 channel audio interface and sometimes hookup another aggregate 8 channels for 16 totoal possible into the mixer (if I want to do an analog mix).

I track many things to tape such as live mic’d guitar amps. vocals, and acoustic guitars, etc. I have several other devices I may use also. I am using about 10 inputs just for the different sources. When tracking I will record one (or more) of these sources through the M2600 mixer group busses to the tape machine.

After tracking, most of the time I will transfer the tape tracks through the mixer again and into the DAW. So there’s another 8 ins and outs for the Tascam 38 tape that are connected to the mixer.

When ready, I mix to a Tascam 48 2 track tape using 4db XLR outputs.

I don’t think I need the 8 Auxes per channel but they can be handy and are used for channel and tape monitoring and outboard effects. I’m not sure if I need 8 busses anymore since I really only record 2-4 tracks at a time. The live monitoring from tape is nice, and the monitor and talkback section are nice to have also.

Its been a while since I purchased a new mixer.

What do you guys recommend as a (smaller and newer) analog replacement?

Is there anything new out there that's worth looking into?
 
I've just gone through what seems to be an annual event......ripping the studio to bits, then re-building it.

I'm delivering one of the last bits tomorrow. The Tascam M3500 that I went over 400 miles to bring back here a year ago is shipping out tomorrow. The reason?
It takes up the space of drum kit. I have had a nice mid priced kit and cymbals sat in cases for almost ten years....hard to believe I know. But I had a hard look at the studio space and decided I want more instruments available rather than recording equipment. Without realising it I've had an awesome piece of gear in my rack for almost a year. When I got the two Fostex G24S refurbed I wanted a good convertor to put the stuff into the computer after tracking. The piece I picked up was an RME Fireface UFX. It is a 30in / 30 out convertor. But more than this is the fact that it is also a 30 track recorder (via USB) for tracking live events without the need for a computer and also a digital mixer via a program called Total Mix. This mixes sources from the analogue inputs and also from the computer's software outputs to the hardware's outputs. I've got it couple up to 2 x Behringer ADA8200, which gives me 24 analogue IN /OUT as standard.

Like I said, I hadn't realised it could do all this, so this is the plan.

The unit also has 4 hi-quality pre-amps on the front panel. For most recording duties these will suffice. I also have various pre-amps, so I'm going to track straight to the G24S inputs, with the outputs going to the 24 analogue INS on the RME. There are two sets of headphones on the front panel, but any 2 of the 24 outputs could be used to create a stereo mix. I have a Behringer Powerplay, 4-channel headphone amp, so could creat another 4 stereo headphone mixes.

After tracking the tape can simply be sent to Reason's inputs and mixed there.

That's the plan anyway.

I couldn't tell the difference between stuff coming back from tape and from the computer when I tested this last year, but admittedly that was with everything going through the M3500. I also have a Yamaha O2R and a Yamaha AW2400 to try mix wise if Reason doesn't cut it.

I know this wasn't what you asked, but I do feel now that unless an analogue desk is top quality, then the time you spend maintaining it may be time that's wasted. Just my tuppence worth.
Al
 
I know this wasn't what you asked, but I do feel now that unless an analogue desk is top quality, then the time you spend maintaining it may be time that's wasted. Just my tuppence worth.
Al

This a good point. I do not want a mixer that will be its own fix-it project for sure. The only new mixer I can find that matches the functionality of my M2600 is the Toft that witzendoz mentioned above.

The Soundcrafts and Allen & Heath look OK but don't seem to have the monitoring/solo/aux capabilities. The Mackies are closer to having that functionality. I'm just very unsure of the quality of these lower priced units now.

The idea for me at least, is to have the option to not only have a hub where most gear is perm plugged in, but also have the possibility of final mixing up to 16 channels (from DAW) to 2-track tape.

It would be cool to have motorized faders, mix recall but that's probably asking a lot.

The hunt continues.
 
I know this wasn't what you asked, but I do feel now that unless an analogue desk is top quality, then the time you spend maintaining it may be time that's wasted. Just my tuppence worth.

The exact reason I took my TASCAM 3500 out of service and replaced it with the Trident 24 London this past year.

The 3500 was/is still fully operational...but...at 25 years old, it was due for a recap and an overhaul...which, if I would have done, at most would have the board back to spec, as a good mixer, though I wanted something with more analog mojo.
To get that from the 3500 I would have had to do a lot of upgrading, which wouldn't be easy, the way it was designed and how the PCBs were laid out....and even then, I don't know how much better I could have made it.

Going with the Trident, the recap and all upgrades were pretty straightforward, and it certainly has more of the analog mojo that I wanted. It's a better sounding board, no question about it, though a bigger footprint than my 3500, but it worked out pretty good with a bit of studio re-configuring.

Now I have to get that 3500 out of my place...it's just sitting in a spare room, but it's gotta go by May.
 
I recorded by daughter singing a cover over a year ago using a Yamaha O2R and I think a Fostex D2424LV:

https://altruistica.bandcamp.com/track/im-into-you

All the tracks were recorded using the O2R preamps straight into the D2424LV, real simple.

I'm going to hook one of the Yamaha O2Rs up to the Fostex G24S and see how it sounds. The mixer is going for something stupid on Ebay at the moment......ok it's the earliest digital mixer, but it's Yamaha, which means it's built as good as anything on the market......testament to almost being 20 years old. Anyway, I had one in bits the other day to repair some things on it, and it seems to be very analogue, I'm not sure which bits are digital. If you're looking for automated faders, I strongly suggest you check one out. I've got one in a flightcase (not exactly light, but I've run some shows from it), another one I'm selling, another one that is fairly mint that I'm going to try with the G24S, and the last one which is fully working but which I use as the spares machine.

The facilities on this mixer for studio work are brill.......control room, aux feeds, auxes on faders. The only reason NOT to keep it would be because Total Mix and the RME UFX will also do all of that, only with a touchscreen for tactile response. The bigger too, is automation built-in, but it does require a SMPTE /MTC source to do this.

Al
 
The 02R is somewhat similar to my Tascam FW-1884 DAW Controller - although of course FW-1884 does not have 64 bit drivers for Mac so it no longer works directly - except that I am able to run it over MIDI network.

I've been looking closer at the Toft ABT - looks like a pretty nice albeit expensive mixer with a lot of features. Its also has only a slightly smaller footprint than my M2600.

Are the Toft ABT's really worth the price?

How about the higher end Allen & Health or Soundcraft boards - any good?
 
Are the Toft ABT's really worth the price?

:)

Seems a lot of people who get them...end up selling them...or at least trying to, but they have a hard time getting back the price they paid for it.
Not sure what that means...that's just what I've seen...and I can tell you, I spent the last 3-4 years looking for a console to upgrade to from my TASCAM 3500....so I've seen the Tofts come up many times, but I was never compelled to drop that kind of coin, for that console.
There are people that use them, like them...just not really sure they are worth those prices.

One of the negative comments that I've seen come up more than once...is that inside, they are built rather cheaply, and kinda light duty.

I can't for the life of me remember who it was though...but there was a guy around here that bought one new, a few years back...to be the centerpiece of his studio...and then after he had it for awhile, he was kinda underwhelmed, and I think he might have put it up for sale not to long afterwards...like he just didn't see that it added that much value/quality to his sound...that he could use that money better.
 
There's a good vid on YouTube about build quality of the Toft....a guy ended up keeping his Soundcraft Spirit Studio 24 and sent the Toft back. He's since bought a high end comp and pre-amp with what he didn't spend. I've rigged up one of the Yammy O2Rs with the 1" tape machine's outputs serving its inputs. I've put a couple of patchbays so I can also come 24 out of the RME UFX (and out of the computer) and just patch into the patchbay for mixing in the O2R.

I'll see what it's like. I've done the hard disk recorder into analogue desk......it added something. I've done the computer into analogue desk....again it added something (not to mention that I find it easier to mix on a console). Now I'm going to track to the 1" and either dump it to computer, possibly to mix back into the O2R, or just mix from tape into the O2R. I find until you try something, you're not too sure what's going to happen.

Al
 
I've put a couple of patchbays so I can also come 24 out of the RME UFX (and out of the computer) and just patch into the patchbay for mixing in the O2R.

Mmmm...can't you go digitally from the computer to the O2R...?
I haven't touched an O2R in like 15 years...but I would think there must be some kind of ditigtial-to-digital I/O between the 02R and interface that you could use (probably ADAT format on Toslink) rather than breaking it out from digital to analog, then to a patchbay, and then converting back to digital in the O2R...etc...etc....?
 
:)

I can't for the life of me remember who it was though...but there was a guy around here that bought one new, a few years back...to be the centerpiece of his studio...and then after he had it for awhile, he was kinda underwhelmed, and I think he might have put it up for sale not to long afterwards...like he just didn't see that it added that much value/quality to his sound...that he could use that money better.

Funny about the underwhelmed thing, I have a TOFT ATC2 mic pre compressor and when I got it I was totally underwhelmed, however after a few months of use I realised that it is a great piece of gear. I use it for snare a lot tracking through the mic pre and mixing through the compressor, I thought I didn't like it but persevered as it has a good reputation for drums, I realised that my snare sound in the mix had really improved but soloed did not sound that awesome, like the ATC2 just does it's thing.

When I recommended the TOFT I was trying to think of what would not be too old and fit the OP's requirements. I have a Tascam M3700, but out of the same price range consoles always like the Soundcraft EQ, there are a lot of Soundcraft studio consoles out there 2nd hand right now it's just that you don't want to go too old.

Alan.
 
I had the Toft ATC2 at one time...but I couldn't find anything really great about it...maybe if had spent more time with it like you...but it's gone now. :)
It wasn't bad...just didn't ring any bells...and TBH, I don't miss it.

I thought the pre was good...but I had better pres.
The comp section was nothing special.
The only thing I really liked was the EQ section...and I wished that they had made an EQ-only unit.

It came out when the lower budget, "channel strip" units were all the rage...and I think they just made it to make it.
It might have been better if it was just a pre/EQ...or two separate units.

I then ended up with a Manley Langevin DVC "strip"...yes, more $$$...but it's a 2-channel unit, with as good-pres...decent EQ complement...and the ELOP section is excellent. Oh...the DI s my favorite way to track bass...sounds great.
 
I had the Toft ATC2 at one time...but I couldn't find anything really great about it...maybe if had spent more time with it like you...but it's gone now. :)
It wasn't bad...just didn't ring any bells...and TBH, I don't miss it.

Your talking to a guy that keeps a Yamaha GC2020 compressor (that I swapped for a bottle of red) because it's my favourite for ........... Harmonica, Complete rubbish for everything else.

Alan.
 
It was awhile ago..but I'm pretty sure I let it go real cheap to some poor soul.
You know...there's a sucker born every minute. :D
 
Mmmm...can't you go digitally from the computer to the O2R...?
You're right Miro.....and given the slump in the secondmarket for all things hardware, the O2Rs I bought came with ADAT, AES and analogue cards. I can go from the RME to the O2R via 2 sets of ADAT connectors (giving 16 tracks). I would still need to go 8 analogue if I wanted 24 into the desk. As it is. I can't hear the conversions....and the other thing is that if I mocked something up in Reason, a lot of it would be electronic anyway.
 
So the Tascam M3500 went last month. I got £500 for it which was just about what I paid for it (including nothing for my time re-capping and sorting it out). I then jumped on an Allen & Heath ML3000, which is really a live desk, but I'd been looking at a few live desks simply because of the price and quality you were getting. The ML5000 appealed but they're just too damn big, so the ML3000 with its sweepable HPF (0-400Hz) will do just fine. Early testing with the Fostex G24S are impressive.....the 8 VCAs go a long way to controlling a mix and since I have the 32 channel version I can dedicate 8 channels to input / recording channels (25-32) and use the other 24 to monitor straight from the recorder. The sound is big, fat open although not as punchy as Soundcraft. With a full dog-box flightcase I paid £550....for a mixer than was probably £6-7000 in 2005. Nice....
 
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