Micro Lynx + Tape Deck + DAW

miroslav · Dec 23, 2017

Hey brainditch...you may already know this, but I happened to be looking at my Timeline Microlynx manual, and saw that they do list a part number for the Alesis cable. Their number is 71385.
All their other cable part numbers correspond to the PDF numbers that I have...but as I said, I don't have the PDF for the Alesis cable.
You could try searching for a "71385.PDF"...but I doubt it will turn up the schematic for you. I think if it existed it would have been in that archive that I pulled from before it was taken down.

It's funny how once the company closed down all the information just faded away, but I guess that's how it is for a lot info that wasn't converted to electronic format...though it's also interesting how much very old info has been.
Must be all down to some individual who has the info, and manages to pass it on...otherwise, it just disappears over time.

brainditch · Dec 24, 2017

Yes, thanks for the tip miroslav. Actually, it was the reference to the cable in the Microlynx manual that got me wondering about slaving all the decks from a single source. I have an ADAT BRC already, and as I mentioned a Tascam MTS-1000 Midiizer, but sadly neither of these units will connect to each other directly, nor will they drive an Otari directly (or in the case of the BCR, interface with a transport sync unit without the AI-2). The MTS-1000 requires an IF-1000 Parallel Interface, and these are apparently very rare, as of course are the interface cables.

As to be expected, I found a different part number for each of the cables to interface with the Lynx 2 (usually one digit different than for the Microlynx), given that the Lynx 2 uses a 50 pin D-sub, rather than the 50 pin Ribbon-Cable connector (whatever the official name for it is called) for the Microlynx. Just to make things "squirrely", Alesis decided to use a 50 pin Centronics connector to interface on their end with the Microlynx/Lynx 2. Actually I should say that Timeline made that decision (as OEM designers of the AI-2). I think the key here is that they were clearly holding tightly the reigns of power over their cable business, otherwise the pinout data wouldn't have been so difficult to pursue.

Damn, I wish the wayback machine had downloaded the entire catalog of files from sessioncontrol-dot-com, as there were apparently more pdf files there than were preserved, particularly regarding the Microlynx!

All of which led me down the golden path towards other options, such as the Lynx 2, Microlynx and Zeta 3. I guess I'm still not sure which of the last three options I should pursue, as I really need the cable data to make sure of what would be the easiest solution.

The most difficult way would be to hook up a scope and/or logic analyzer, and "sniff" the ports to ascertain what the port responses are to working conditions (if in fact all the older sync machines aI acquire are themselves working), but even this might not resolve all questions, as for many units that the Lynx family interfaced with, external components were sometimes needed, sometimes pull-up/pull-down resistors, sometimes "OR'ing" diodes. The port descriptions are available for the Microlynx and Lynx 2 via examination of the cable diagrams for other decks/interfaces, however not so for the AI-2.

{Sigh}...I might need to take a chance and try to get a service manual for the AI-2 (and while I'm at it try to get one for the IF-1000), at least then the veil could be lifted a little.

Anyway, thanks for responding, and have a Happy Holidaze

miroslav · Dec 24, 2017

brainditch said:
Damn, I wish the wayback machine had downloaded the entire catalog of files from sessioncontrol-dot-com, as there were apparently more pdf files there than were preserved, particularly regarding the Microlynx!

When I did the PDF file download...I took everything that was there at the time.
I downloaded files for gear I don't have and never will. I had no reason to omit any specific PDF files.
That's all there was on that site at that time...but there may be more...somewhere...?

It would be good if we knew who was running sessioncontrol . com. That person may still have copies of the files, but it's all just turned into internet vapor.
Almost every reference to Timeline files points to that one site...no one seems to have any more info.

miroslav · Dec 24, 2017

Here is everything I have for the Timeline cables....for the next person looking for schematics, and in case I get hit by a bus and am not here to reply.

First go to the manual Appendix PDF (scroll down, it's on page A-25) and find your cable, then find the PDF schematic if it exists in the list of files.

The complete manual is also here...both as individual chapters and as a single file, so you can choose how you want to download it.

Merry Christmas!

brainditch · Dec 24, 2017

Thank you once again miroslav! I had just last night spent many hours studying and comparing the (then) available schemos for possible clues to the evolution of the Lynx 2 and hopefully more about the Microlynx.

I was just about ready to come back and ask you for any more available data on the Microlynx, in case you had saved more from sessioncontrol that might aid me, and low and behold- your anticipatory reply!

Talk about your Christmas miracles! Well thanks once again, and I'll report back my findings when I have been about to sort through the voluminous files you posted.

brainditch · Dec 24, 2017

brainditch · Dec 24, 2017

Sorry about the formatting folks, that last list sucks. Any tips miroslav to getting that nice scrollable block of attachments? - edit: finally got it looking legible at least.

miroslav · Dec 24, 2017

brainditch said:
OK, thanks once again miroslav, and the least I can do is re-title some of your gift of the PDF's so that we won't have to open every file to at least know a little of their contents.

I was going to do that...but then it's easy enough to look at the Appendix PDF, and each PDF "should" correspond to the cable part number and machine name.
It's good to let everyone look through all the PDFs...make them earn it.

brainditch · Dec 24, 2017

Well, for many of them, the cable part number and drawing number do not match. Some evidence I just noticed has to do with mr. N.F. changing the way the drawing numbers are utilized or generated. The files (finally renamed properly in my scheme above) for the "Sony VD-5850 A.pdf" vs. "Sony VD-5850 A1.pdf" were apparently generated on the same date (4/19/2003), are very different revisions, and have no disclaimer that I can see that qualifies what revision of physical hardware they apply to (at least that I can surmise).

If I needed a cable for a VD-5850, I would have to try the A1 schemo, as it seems to be the most advanced, as if the other file were simply a starting revision which needed to be fixed to work properly with the actual hardware.

Regarding my speculation about the drawing numbering scheme changing midstream, which the above schemos illustrate: "Sony VD-5850 A (original dwg #70620A)" may refer to a later part number for the cable (because the Appendix Cable Ref has so few part numbers like it), whereas "Sony VD-5850 A1 (original dwg #70D105)" seems more in keeping with an earlier attempt at distinguishing physical inventory from production documents (letter "C" in the number indicating cable, letter "D" indicating drawing or production document).

A piece of supporting evidence from the earlier Lynx cable drawings which I gleaned from Internet sources - specifically the cable for the Studer A-800 - shows a date in the schemo title block of 1/5/1990. This A-800 drawing also shows Timeline's offices (at least the engineering offices) existing on 270 Lafayette St. New York, New York, whereas the A-800 cable drawing for the Microlynx shows a (curiously familiar) date of 4/19/2003, and an address of 2401 Dogwood Way, Vista, California.

I don't mind getting people of their lazy butts to "earn what they learn" (as you so wisely insinuated), but I'm sure I'm not the only one who would be relieved to have more access to the "ungarbled truth" regarding these essential and rare pieces of equipment.

The sleuthing shall commence anew.

miroslav · Dec 24, 2017

Let me know when you find the smoking gun.

I've given up all the evidence that I had.

All I was ever interested in at the time, was a cable for my MX-80...so apart from just downloading all those files, I wasn't trying to sort them all out, but I thought if I was ever to get a different/another multi-track (probably small chance of that)...at least I would have the PDF files.

We're all coming into this about 10-15 years too late...but looking back at that time, I was heading in a different direction. I didn't see a big 2" deck in my future or the need to sync it all up. If I did, I would have been on top of the Timeline stuff while they were still in biz...or shortly after...while the info was still fresh.

So now you got me on the EPROM case.

If/when I get to that, I'll post back.

brainditch · Dec 26, 2017

Well, I just bit the bullet and decided to pick up a Microlynx + Controller Keyboard, an Alesis AI-2, and a service manual for the AI-2 off of the fleabay, so we'll see in a week or so what can be gleaned from some hands-on cross-examination of the suspects, er...subjects.

Of course no cables or power supplies in the lot of them, so I'll have to probably jump through all the hurdles most folks, including timkroeger have had to.

I'll probably have to start out with some power supplies and an Ethernet cable, and may just initially try out the method sweetbeats used of getting an ATX computer supply and terminating it with a 5-pin DIN plug to do some initial testing.

Speaking of which, for the greater good and for the record: my earlier statements about the AI-2 requiring a 50 pin Centronics connector is incorrect, TimeLine in its wisdom (and parts sourcing efficiency) used a 25 pin D-sub connector for the AI-2, like the ones used on many 8 channel A/D cable fan-outs these days (did Tascam start this trend?). Also, I mis-spoke myself, the Microlynx does use a 40 pin not a 50 pin connector, but I was correct in that the pin spacing is very much identical to "header" connectors (often used inside desktop computers) with 2.54mm / 100 mil termination "pitch".
I'll report back with progress.

sweetbeats · Dec 27, 2017

Just want to say this is a fascinating thread. Multiple facets to it.

I’ve been really struggling this last month with my own overwhelming personal inventory of gear and projects I fear as I approach age 50 and have a baby on the way I will never get to...and it all started because my digital rig at the time (approaching 15 years ago) lacked a number of sonic properties I believed I could only get with an analog rig. And life has been so full and I’ve taken on so many very big projects I’ve simply lost the ability to get what I aimed for in the beginning...a simple 8+ track rig hooked up ready to record at any time. Only for fleeting moments have I gotten close to that. It sounds stupid, but if you knew a little more about what’s happened in my life over the last couple decades it would make more sense. But now my benevolent brother has semi-permanently loaned me some gear and I’m playing with new DAW software that is knocking my socks off with the sonic results...and I’m just tempted to cut and run from the projects. I miss making music, and I’m tired of the big burdensome gear projects just sitting there while I lack the time to progress.

As a pertinent aside I checked all my TimeLine documents on-hand and I must have done the same thing as Miro and downloaded everything that was available at the time...same document set. The Alesis cable is weird...there are only two cables in the list with only numbers for the designator. The rest are alpha-numeric. It must have been a special assembly or something, but that seems odd to me because the Alesis Gear was hugely popular for quite awhile.

Anyway, sorry I could help and thanks for the stimulating read.

brainditch · Dec 27, 2017

Thanks for checking back sweetbeats, and for all your encouraging shares of information. I definitely know what you mean about the huge projects and life itself getting in the way of the ultimate goal for many of us- getting back to the music! I'm glad for your sake your brother intervened to help you return to music making. Perhaps it will give you strength to pare down the projects which are overwhelming to the essential ones which will aid you in furthering the musical goals.

I myself am a rather persistent (some would say crazy) so-and-so, and while I would relish the simplicity of a turnkey recording rig, I've never been able to afford one. I've come a long way though in the past few years, having just finishing up a modest remodel-type studio build that has taken me over six years to accomplish, including many custom carpentry/electrical/acoustical solutions. Before my current occupation as a Tradeshow carpenter, I was an electronics tech at a relatively famous Pacific Northwest pro-audio company back in the late '80's-'90's, and I guess that gives me the gall to believe I can prevail in this quest to add sync capabilities to this odd (and mostly old) collection of audio gear I've accumulated to fill the studio.

So as to my latest efforts- luckily I live in an area where there exist a number of technology recycling centers- in particular a place called "Re-PC". I spent about 1-1/2 hours there today seeing if I could get some supplies for the power supply issues with the coming Microlynx and the Alesis AI-2. I lucked out and found not just one, but two "wall-warts" that spit out the required 9Vac for the AI-2 -man are those ever getting hard to find new! Most companies these days are either designing custom (internal) supplies, using generic +5Vdc supplies, or selling to folks who are buying replacement AC to DC supplies for other low voltage electronics. Manufacturing and engineering suffers from fads also, I guess.

After rummaging unsuccessfully for one to make the Microlynx work something caught my eye- a 5 pin DIN plug. I pulled out the "line lump" it was attached to, an low and behold- an ITE triple output supply with the exact same pinout as the one miroslav photographed as the OEM one he's been using! The current supply specs were lower than I would need to fully run the Microlynx, however, but I reasoned that if I proceeded carefully, and didn't expect it to supply current to a working tape deck, I could at least assess the working condition of the Microlynx when it arrived. Um, well....NOT! DENIED! When I got the "line lump" home, apparently the 12Vdc portions were having problems. Oh well, it and the "wall warts" cost me next to nothing, and If I crack the case of the "line lump" maybe a Voltage Regulator IC, Capacitor, or zener diode has gone bad that I might be able to fix. However, the "wall warts" both check out fine with a multi-meter, so the day wasn't a total loss.

brainditch · Dec 27, 2017

[MENTION=79692]sweetbeats[/MENTION] - So, regarding the cable schemos you referred to on the list (there are actually four - the partial one for the Fostex 20, one for the JVC Type B1, and a couple for the Sony 7030-FM), I believe they are evidence of a period of rapid growth (and exceptionally rapid decline) that TimeLine went through in those latter days.

There's a very interesting story that I'm finally unraveling from the little information that still exists online. Part of it may be a sad one, I'm not sure. I'm thinking the "smoking gun" of who/what killed the company may involve their "partnership" with Tascam.

They actually won an AMPAS Scientific and Technical award in 2001 (along with Tascam) for their co-development of a digital dubbing deck called the MMR-8. Their development of the MX-2424 was a huge departure from the sync-only business they obviously excelled at from the Lynx, Lynx 2, and Microlynx. Even the work they did with Alesis for the AI-2 came from this well-engineered experience source.

Gerry Lester, who was a TimeLine head engineer at the time of their demise, was later tapped by Tascam to assist with the completion of the MX-2424. He was also given license following TimeLine's demise to continue development of the TimeLine model T-L Sync; and he became the owner of Session Control, which not only completed the T-L Sync unit but was the source for all the remaining information and documentation from the TimeLine archives (which we've obviously all benefited from regarding cable schemos).

The splitting up of the TimeLine corporate structure had apparently started as early as 1996, as the production testing and service departments of the company became a separate entity known as T/L Services. This info came from none other than Bill McMeekin himself, as he posted on the timeline-dot-net website (which I found courtesy of the Wayback Machine).

I don't yet know for sure what their ultimate cause for dissolution was, but it must have been very dramatic for so much apparent success to have been destroyed so quickly. By 2002 (according to Bloomberg) they were totally out of business, so from Academy awards to the rubbish bin of history in only a year! Do I smell a corporate-piracy rat? Or did some other tragedy befall a major player who could not be replaced in the organization? We may never know, or maybe the answer will come to us one day- perhaps some former TimeLine employee will pop up online sometime with the rest of the story. Dan Steinberg (former TimeLine product manager) did post some information about the products on the duc-dot-avid website after the company's demise. Who knows, maybe we'll hear from such luminaries as Pat J. Wraneschetz (who helped draft some of the cable schemos), Gerry Lester, or Neal Foxworthy about the details....unless they've been paid not to tell all.

sweetbeats · Dec 28, 2017

Fascinating. Just fascinating. Stuff happens. Jeep Harned got screwed and Sony ate MCI.

The Microlynx is an exceptionally well made unit. They had something.

miroslav · Dec 28, 2017

brainditch said:
I believe they are evidence of a period of rapid growth (and exceptionally rapid decline) that TimeLine went through in those latter days.

That was kinda my point earlier...that the ADAT stuff came during those days...so the existence of a cable part number doesn't guarantee that there was ever a PDF of the schematics, or even how many cables were out there in circulation at that point.

brainditch said:
I don't yet know for sure what their ultimate cause for dissolution was, but it must have been very dramatic for so much apparent success to have been destroyed so quickly. By 2002 (according to Bloomberg) they were totally out of business, so from Academy awards to the rubbish bin of history in only a year! Do I smell a corporate-piracy rat? Or did some other tragedy befall a major player who could not be replaced in the organization? We may never know, or maybe the answer will come to us one day- perhaps some former TimeLine employee will pop up online sometime with the rest of the story. Dan Steinberg (former TimeLine product manager) did post some information about the products on the duc-dot-avid website after the company's demise. Who knows, maybe we'll hear from such luminaries as Pat J. Wraneschetz (who helped draft some of the cable schemos), Gerry Lester, or Neal Foxworthy about the details....unless they've been paid not to tell all.

The transition from analog to digital left a lot of bodies in its wake.
Yeah, it might have been purely some business/partnership issue (look at how Gibson just killed off Cakewalk once it acquired it)...or it may have been a logical decision based on what was going on technologically in the audio world. Let's face it...we are just a small "handful" of people still bothering with this stuff...and that reality happened quickly back in the early/mid 2000s. So the need for synchronizing analog audio and/or video started fading rapidly even before that.
I was working in a TV production environment back in '96-'98...and even then we were already moving from the analog Sony post editing systems and spinning 1" video tape on some ancient Ampex deck to the new AVID digital systems.

Look at the CLASP system...all over and done with...and this was a system designed specifically to make use of all the old analog tape decks big studios had lying around collecting dust, by providing a new way to lock them up with their ITB rigs....and now that too is gone.
Not saying tape is dead...just that the number of people using it has become a small niche base. You either have what you need to work with tape...or you're going to be scrounging to find things to make it work.

Like I said...we are about 10-15 years too late for still finding much of this technology out there and available...so now it is about rummaging though the rubbish bin to find still useable stuff.

brainditch · Dec 28, 2017

Yes miroslav, you may be entirely correct about digital conversion (eventually to become primarily ITB digital recording) mostly killing off the need for hardware-based recording, and thus the destroying the need for sync and all its applications, however, I would still say (in an off-the-cuff "guestimate") there are maybe a hundred or so professionals out there still using large-frame ATR's which might require sync, and maybe a thousand semi-pro's to serious hobbiests exploring it currently. A small niche, to be sure in terms of market percentages, but not so insignificant in absolute numbers.

About the ADAT AI-2 cable, I agree it's possible that the there were never any cables produced for integration with the Microlynx. However, having come from an electronics production environment with a small but significant pro audio company, it's highly unlikely that any cables would have been produced without any documentation at all. Production management and engineering teams utilize documentation to cover their department's butts, and would typically never give up that political/legal liability shield in order to fulfill an expedient customer order.

The data is still missing for a great many products that were listed in the Appendix Cable Reference, as in not found in our collection of PDF's, but I suspect that this represented the chaos of conversion to the new file system for them. Among the files in your collection, there is one that I need to point to as evidence of this:
readme.pdf
In it, none other than Gerry Lester himself, in a very formal, engineering style (note the original memo had a title of "README_20030520.TXT") explained that:
"MicroLynx Cable Drawings
Converted to OrCAD Capture 9.2 format on May 20 2003."
Which means that these CAD drawings were converted from their original format long after the closure of TimeLine Vista, perhaps in a final flurry of activity by the major players while the actual assets of the company (such as the company computer system/network server) were being finally collected for asset liquidation at an auction house.

Incidentally, in the same memo above, Lester almost apologetically calls out the "Known Errors" regarding the cable schemo for the Fostex 20, as being incomplete, almost as if he were personally apologizing to the only other technical soul who would have had a financial stake in the document accuracy- Bill McMeekin, the lead at T/L Services, which survived after the TimeLine breakup.

If only McMeekin were still around to verify this- however I believe I read on some of my exhaustive forum searches that another possible client had contacted him about obtaining a cable (it might have even been for the AI-2, I don't recall) but was dissuaded when he was quoted a price of $175.

Although there may be some out there who are merely toying with the idea of tape machines, there are some of us who are doing so out of necessity, or for fulfilling some specific purpose, either aesthetic or Process-Ergonomical. The death of the CLASP system (is it really dead, or merely reported as such, like the famous Samuel Clemens quote?) may have more to do with it being such an expensive bespoke system (costing as much or more initially as many of the remaining used 24 track ATR's available), rather than it being a non-useful one.

Who knows where all this will really lead? The resurgence in interest in vinyl as a storage medium, and a renewed interest in tape as a production/storage medium may have at their heart a certain dissatisfaction with the "perfect pat answers" supposedly provided by the digital revolution.

In fact leading sociologists (remember when they actually mattered to current governmental administrations?) might have predicted this very phenomenon if they had been consulted - every revolution spawns a disenfranchised portion of the former revolutionaries- "the outliers", who often go on to form their own "counter-revolution".

miroslav · Dec 28, 2017

brainditch said:
In fact leading sociologists (remember when they actually mattered to current governmental administrations?) might have predicted this very phenomenon if they had been consulted - every revolution spawns a disenfranchised portion of the former revolutionaries- "the outliers", who often go on to form their own "counter-revolution".

Was that Karl Marx...?

brainditch · Dec 28, 2017

Maybe, but I'll bet even Groucho Marx might have agreed!

Actually, the first sociologists I know of who were (surreptitiously) scientifically studying the phenomenon of "social implosion" were William S. Bainbridge and Rodney Stark. There may be other studies since then that illuminate the subject, but I haven't been able to follow them.

miroslav · Jan 4, 2018

brainditch said:
I believe I read on some of my exhaustive forum searches that another possible client had contacted him about obtaining a cable (it might have even been for the AI-2, I don't recall) but was dissuaded when he was quoted a price of $175.

Hey...I saw this on ebay...it's ready-made cable for ADAT and LYNX-2...might be something that gets you closer to a cable for the Microlynx...?

TimeLine LYNX-2 to Alesis ADAT Synchronizer cable 20' | eBay

Micro Lynx + Tape Deck + DAW

Cosmic Cowboy

New member

Cosmic Cowboy

Cosmic Cowboy

Attachments

New member

New member

New member

Cosmic Cowboy

New member

Cosmic Cowboy

New member

Reel deep thoughts...

New member

New member

Reel deep thoughts...

Cosmic Cowboy

New member

Cosmic Cowboy

New member

Cosmic Cowboy