Micro Lynx + Tape Deck + DAW

The PSU for my Microlynx was dead when I purchased it (disclosed by seller...got a good deal).

I modified a standard ATX PC power supply to power my Microlynx.

And yes in the keyboard interface cable...standard CAT5 or CAT6 RJ45 patch cable.
 
I also purchased a used original PS from a music store, online...when it arrived...it too was dead. They refunded.

They may be "weak" in their design, and die prematurely...but I don't think that's the reason you see many Timeline boxes without them.
I think people just lose/misplace power packs.
Timeline was around for a decent number of years...so if there was some design flaw in the PS, I would think it would have been corrected.

Anyway...not to dissuade brianditch or others from their Timeline plans...but man, it's been awhile now since Timeline closed its doors, and their use/need has faded away. There's less and less useable stuff out there...or info. I guess the threads here will keep some of that alive...but you still need to source all the boxes, and then hope you get ones that work.
The main box and keyboards are as old as the power supplies....and there are EPROMs in them that are susceptible to data loss over time. I think someone once told me to never let these things stay powered off for too long. Same thing with my Otari MX-80 and its remote. Both have EPROMs with instructions/data sets on them, and that they should be "juiced" regularly. Not sure how valid all that is...? I know sometime my Timline unit misbehaves, but after it's powered up for awhile, and I do a couple of reboots...it settles down.

I think I'll go power up my MX-80 for a bit... :p
 
No kidding...never considered any of that. My Microlynx units have been powered down for years. They are probably all jacked. :eek:
 
I'm not sure powering the EPROMs up helps. AFAIK they are programmed by energising the memories with UV light. That sets all the cells to the same state, not sure if it's 1 or 0. Programming then shorts out the bits you want to change state. What this means is that the energy given to it during erasure will gradually leak out over several decades, ultimately leaving everything as 0 or 1. I'm not sure that using them helps retain the energy - IMHO it's more likely to cause it to leak by reading the contents continuously.

Either way, if you have the ability to read the EPROM contents to computer, that would be a really, really good idea.
 
Well...it may not have anything to do with the EPROMs...but I know the Otari that did work on my deck, which included reprogramming all the necessary EPROMs with the latest version that he had...said that they do become corrupt. He didn't explain what/why.

A former Otari rep, did tell me not to leave the deck powered off for two long, as it could case some issues...again, not offering a lot of detail.
Maybe I just put the two together in my head.

A mic tech/designer also told me the same thing about condenser mics...he said power them up once in awhile.

Not sure if it's something to do with the caps...or chips...or what...but there appears to be something to it.
Then again, maybe it's just a myth.

Yeah, I wish I could dump the Otari EPROM data to some backup device...but I guess you need the right tool to do that, and to be able to write it back to them.
I still have my Otari contacts...so I'm not worried for now, but the Otari tech could end up retiring from it all. I mean, at this point he was servicing the gear privately, since Otari closed up shop in the USA. I had bought out a lot of their parts and test equipment, etc...so he is the man for it...hard to get a hold of, but he does good work. He completely rebuilt my spare remote for the MX-80. I was one of those eBay "parts" finds. Needed a bunch of work, new switches, and reprogramming of the EPROMs...and he got it all going again.
Funny...I was using that remote for the last couple of years, as it's the later model from the remote that came with the deck...but just recently I had pulled the original remote out of the closet and put it back into service mainly because the idea that it needed to be powered up occasionally. :D
 
Yeah, capacitors are said to fare better if regularly powered up. It wouldn't surprise me if that's true. I just doubt it applies to EPROMs and those tend to be the most difficult thing to replace.
 
brainditch said:
[...]
@ timkroeger- I presume that you swapped the keyboard unit between your two Microlynx systems, or did you keep them separate after you discovered the error codes/strange behavior? There might be a safe way to troubleshoot your system, even without schematics, and if you have the time your technical competence might allow you to at least tell whether the System Unit or the keyboard had gone bonkers. By inserting some small value resistors in the signal paths (in between the cables and the units, in other words), you might be able to check the keyboard's responses between the two system units without causing a dead short (in other words without causing a healthy unit to fail by corruption with a diseased one). I should think something in the range of about 1 Kilohm to 10 Kilohm would do it, and maybe start with the 10K first to check that the symptoms were consistent.
[...]
Click to expand...

[MENTION=198037]brainditch[/MENTION] That's some interesting information and I'd love to go down the route of troubleshooting if I just had the time ;) In the end I went with the spare that I had, set up an ebay search job and bought a few more of these units whenever they popped up in Germany for a reasonable price. They have different ROM versions and different add-on card configurations but I think it's safe to say that I won't run out of devices anytime soon. It's a different story though with the PSUs where I only have one spare. I think I'd go Cory's route of using an ATX PSU unless you have something up your sleeve that needs less modification? Here's a picture of the Micro Lynx rack:

timeline.jpg

I went totally crazy in 2015 then, bought a 2" Studer A80 with 24 channels because I had some time and there was an "opportunity", built the cable and synced it to the DAW and the ATR-60/16. That was awesome to look at but more than I needed. It is so unbelievably cool that this gear still works and is so versatile. Nowadays I run either through the Rosendahl nanosync to get to higher audio resolution or I use the RME in the computer that's tied to the Orion 32 where the RME can also do this kind of sync frequency doubling. I sold the ATR-60/16 earlier this year before I moved to Berlin. Not much going on right now as my place is much smaller now and I focus more on playing guitar again, but if anyone's curious and on FB, you can follow me here: Unknown Artist Studio Berlin - Accueil | Facebook. It's more of a museum currently ;)

Cheers
Tim
 
timkroeger said:
[MENTION=198037] Here's a picture of the Micro Lynx rack:

View attachment 101371
Click to expand...


Damn, Tim....you have 11 Microlynx units...!?!?!?
No wonder I hardly ever see anymore on eBay. :D

OK...I get the whole "backup" thing...and even the "backup for the backup" thing...heck, I can even understand a third backup...
...but did you really feel you needed 11 of them? :p

I hate to ask how many keyboard units you have. ;)

I have 3...maybe 4 (I would have to go check) backup units of each, though I think one of the Microlynx boxes was all oxidized and rusty, so I wouldn't call it a backup. I got it just for the spare parts...and if I recall, one of the keyboard units has some issues.
Still...it leaves me with three solid backups, which is more than enough, considering I am still using the main unit and keyboard that I installed a few years ago.

Oh...how do you like the Orion 32?
If/when I ever need to move on from my multi-converter box setup...I would give the Orion the first look as a replacement.
 
The Orion is very transparent and I like that I can use it via USB (it's the older non HD version) for the PC and for the mobile rig which is my trusty Macbook Pro. In my stationary setup I connect it via MADI to the RME and it's rock solid. I bought it to hook up my Harrison 3232 so I'm able to record through the console and also use it for mixdown. It's a lot of fun; manufacturing the cables got boring pretty fast though ;)

siemens.jpg

I only got up to 11 system units because I scored a complete lot of eight all at once. I didn't expect them to work at all but most are good. I have much less keyboard units ;) I still see them come up on ebay form time to time around EUR 100.- incl keyboard but I don't pull the trigger anymore. This one went for EUR 1.50 and EUR 10 shipping in October.
 
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timkroeger said:
I bought it to hook up my Harrison 3232
Click to expand...

Did your dual Tascam 3500 rig go bye-bye?
You did have a pair tied together...right? (if I recall)

So then, you have a fairly involved studio rig plus a mobile rig...but you're not recording much anymore?
Is that temporary...or are you kinda done with it?
Not trying to be nosey...just curious what happens to us guys and our studios when the candle starts to dim. :D
I've got my own "involved" studio...and wondering where it's going or how/when it will end.
 
I had a Tascam 3500 but no 2nd one. I also sold the 3500 because the conversion between the different levels for the outboard was a hassle. I just enjoy the tinkering and maintenance currently which is what I do to relax over the weekend. To be honest I've been feeling the joy of owning things shifting towards feeling the burden of ownership for quite some time but I'm not ready to go full mobile / minimal, yet. I've set up a rule for myself that before I buy something new I need to sell two things of the same type / category. This helps me to reduce the total number of stuff I haul around. Moving to Berlin and having to scale down was some sort of a wake up moment. So much stuff! :D I had a dedicated place (two rooms) for the studio where I lived before but now it's in the appartment after I moved. That's definitely temporary, but think years, not months. I'm only recording my own stuff for practice currently but I'm not going to get rid of the rare stuff as long as it fits into the room ;)
 
Sorry...had you mixed up with another guy, who I'm pretty sure was also in Germany (and why I thought it was you). He had two 3500 boards married into one.

So yeah...the gear thing can get out of control. I've got a studio busting at the seams...and could easily use another room the same size and both would feel pretty full.
Luckily...it's in my house...so I don't need to downsize for that reason, but certainly, as time goes by it does make you wonder how/when to start unloading some of it. I think I have a good number of years to go before I get there...but it's harder selling it than it is buying it!!! :p

I had a bunch of amps and guitars up on eBay...just really need to throttle back on those things. I still had a pile of guitars left, and my amp use has narrowed down to 2-3 favorites, and the rest collect dust.
I tried and tried...managed to sell 3 guitars out of 6 that I put up...and not a single amp, and man, I was practically giving them away, but they are not cheap amps.
I thought this time of year would be good...but nope. Lots of watchers, not many buyers.
So the amps went back into their studio spaces just this weekend...they are happy...I'm not. :D

When I look at the rack gear, the console (heck, I also have my old 3500 in storage :facepalm:), the tape decks...I have no idea how this stuff will go one day, though I'm sure some of it will sell easy enough, but there's a LOT of stuff that's accumulated over the years, and I hate to say it, like some of the amps, it's not getting used as much anymore. I've developed my favorites and my workflow...so I kinda stay with that.
 
No problem :) I went through the same with amps and kept lowering the price again and again. Sometimes you just have to wait (I use another classifieds service here, not ebay). I pick the buyers then, all local. It's ok for me if it goes to someone nice for a lower price. The stuff I want to let go goes down in price anyway and the stuff I want to keep, keeps going up ;)
 
[MENTION=101872]timkroeger[/MENTION] - Sorry I didn't catch that you had tried other combinations of working/non-working arrangements , and that you had properly assessed that the fault was in the System Unit.

Thanks so much for the info folks, and thanks to sweetbeats for chiming in to confirm that an Ethernet cable should work to connect the Keyboard to the System Unit.

So the replacement power supply mod (starting with an ATX computer supply) that sweetbeats has accomplished is kind of close to what I had in mind, but with the added notion of designing/limiting its size to what would fit into a 1RU sized empty project chassis. The actual circuit that I'd be repackaging into the project chassis would be:
Mean Well #RT-65B
+5Volts @ 5 Amps (Channel 1)
+12Volts @ 2.8 Amps (Channel 2)
-12Volts @ 0.5 Amp (Channel 3)
(conservative ratings based on the data sheet)
98mm (3-7/8") Width X 129mm (5-1/16") Depth X 38mm (1-1/2") Height

And using this supply would mean bringing wiring/pluggable connectors to the chassis as panel mount jacks. So a little wiring and metalwork is involved, but nothing that couldn't be accomplished in an afternoon or so.

I guess no luck on finding a schemo of the cable wiring for the Alesis ADAT AI-2 then? I'll have to look at the other wiring diagrams you folks have helped provide to assess the likelyhood that they designed its interface to be identical to the pinouts for some other Timeline interfaces that utilize a 25 pin D-Sub. Since Timeline designed the AI-2 for Alesis, I'm hoping they took an easier route and didn't design something exclusive to the AI-2 (for once I would be grateful for a design teams' efficiency/laziness). It looks like the cable will need to integrate/contain RS-422 and SMPTE timecode as well as some other signal types just based on what I gather from the AI-2's block diagram in its manual.
 
I don't have any cable schematics for the Alesis...sorry.

So...are you still able to find tape for the ADATs...?
I thought they were pretty much obsolete...I mean, I haven't heard of anyone using them in a long time. Point being, if you are going to convert your audio to digital and transfer into a DAW...why would you even want to use a 16 or 20-bit ADAT...?
Not understanding how the ADAT fits in with the tape decks...and the transfer to the DAW. I mean, why are you needing/using it?
 
[MENTION=94267]miroslav[/MENTION] - Thanks for trying on the AI-2 cable schemo, you've been a great help already.

As to why I would bother with ADAT- Five things come to mind:
1. I need an ability to have working in situ backups of sessions, without using a parallel DAW.

2. I also need to be able to increase my track count easily for these live tracking sessions (not enough A/D channels for certain setups/projects).

3. Should I need to collaborate with other musicians whose projects have not yet been transferred to other storage media I can accomplish it.

4. Like it or not, I need to be reminded occasionally that all methods of music capture have historical relevance and that content will always trump quality, or inexorably become linked with the media of the time. If I should need to perform an anachronism in sound manipulation, it's much easier (and more unquestionably accurate) to use the tools of the era.

5. As it is with ATR's, part of the quality of their product has to do with the change in workflow that these earlier processes forced on musician and engineer alike. Perhaps more commitment to the moment was required in an era and circumstances when there was less chance of "fixing it in the mix". Sometimes the less polished forms were more energetic and spontaneous, but also the possibility of things going wrong left less room for laziness. Also, with the exception of tape threading, the ability to hit record and within seconds have a fully tracked session in progress might allow for better recording of extemporaneous musical moments to be captured in the studio. Seldom have I experienced a rapid-fire session-start occur with DAWS- too many options to consider/ check boxes to "tick" (at least until I have enough experience at it to have more comprehensive DAW preset templates).

A dwindling tape supply is happening currently, but i don't expect it to run out immediately. Doubtless it will eventually happen, but by then I will have become saturated by the approach, or run the machines to their bared spindles.
 
Oh I totally understand the spontaneity of other, non-DAW approaches...though, with use of templates and a predetermined workflow, it is possible to have some of that with a DAW also...but yeah, when I have my tape deck spooled up...it's just two buttons, and I'm recording. :)
That said...there still is a session preparation process even with tape or ADAT or whatever...that makes the spontaneity truly spontaneous. You have to spool the tape, patch the patchbay, set up your mics and whatever...etc.

I don't use it anymore (not sure why)...but my grab-n-go "ideas" recorder was always a cassette deck. It was quick to load up, and as long as I had a mic patched, I could grab a guitar and knock out some licks or tryout an arrangement, and be able to as quickly hear it back.
With a DAW there is certainly the most "prep" than any other medium that I've seen...unless you wanna do real sloppy-on-the-fly stuff. Just naming the files takes up time. With the tape deck, I can write down with pencil and paper much easier/faster.

Anyway...my question about the ADAT was more about the "for keeps" kind of tracking...where you would want everything to be on the same quality level.
My approach would be to pick out what I considered the "best" of the 3 formats you have on hand, and work out the sessions in chunks to make do with the limited track counts...and then just dump to the DAW and rewind, and add more. I mean, that's what the point of the sync is anyway...to allow that.
Of course, if you feel that locking up the MSR-16, the 5050 MKIII and the ADATs...and recording simultaneously to them will give you what you want, then that's your rig.

Only reason I even asked is that it reminded me of something I was doing way back...when I had a sequencer, a tape deck, etc., and I kinda become focused on making all the gear work together, getting it all sync-locked, and being able to go in any direction, or making any one the master or slave...etc...etc...
...and while I was able to technically have this involved, multi-piece synchronized rig, I quickly came to the conclusion that I was going overboard, and realistically, there was no real need for it on any regular basis....considering that I was never going to record more than a handful or two of tracks at the same time.
IOW, my whole workflow by its nature, broke things down to the drums and the rhythm tracks...then some additional, filler instruments...then the leads and vocals...etc. Even with a 4-5 piece band, it was often the same process...though maybe more mics.
Now, if you're talking really large sessions, with many players...then you can't get around it, you need the extra tracks.

So thinking back to my own situation...I realized that I was doing the elaborate sync hook-up just because I wanted to and to see if I could...not so much that I needed it or that I should. It reminded me of this movie clip...:D



So FFW...
These days I just go with my 2" 24-track...and I sold off my couple of 1/2" 16-track decks. When I need more tracks...I sync the 24-track deck to the DAW, dump some tracks off the tape, and add new ones...though I rarely do that any more. Instead, I find that I'll use the initial 24 tracks (well, 23 actually) off the tape, and then if I need to add a couple new tracks, I'm now going direct to DAW most times....unless I had like a couple of takes on the tape, and I wanted to do another one or two takes, then I'll go back to the tape, just so all the takes have the same overall sound.

Anyway...post back when you get all your pieces and cables together and working as you want. :thumbs up:
 
Thanks miroslav for the comprehensive reply, and the fine-grained look at the evolution of your workflow! Really, it's rare to see folks mentioning their creative process to such a degree, and this goes a long way towards dissolving the assumptions which are often mistakenly applied in such discussions. Unfortunately I wasn't able to view the video you linked to, due to current computer bandwidth limitations.

So I understand where your experience has led you, and as my journey develops I no doubt will utilize the segmented workflow approach out of necessity for certain projects. The need to be able to do multi-way machine synchro in my case is driven by the specific music I will be focusing on initially.

I term it Taqsim Americana (others might choose to call it "Free Jazz" or "Jam-Band", but these terms often bring the wrong kind of baggage to the party); and because it utilizes the potential of both form-based spontaneous composition and "form-drifted" or formless modes, there is no logical difference in structures derived from this. There is usually no "verse", "chorus", "bridge", etc. predetermined upon which one can develop a common workflow for the session (though these form identities are not precluded from the process).

To enable initial capture of this musically morphing montage, the only way conceivable is to have as many parallel, simultaneous, tracking paths as possible. Given that it's entirely possible for even an all analog instrument to have at least 3 channels dedicated to it (primary mic or source, secondary source, and a live FX channel), then a common 6 piece "rock ensemble" could easily consist of 25 channels or tracks needed for full capture.

If it is elected to impose compositional rigor to a piece (creating or modifying structures based on the original performance), then the normal non-linear workflow could be utilized, and would allow for such things as dumping analog tracks back to the DAW as you suggest. Unless, that is, the improvisational requirements extended to the mix phase as well, in which case an OTB mix arrangement might require that all tracks remain in parallel until the conclusion (the mix itself).

In such a compositional environment, the idea of having a specific, uniform audio quality is only one approach (and a potentially very expensive one, as I have illustrated). Where this uniformly high quality is not possible, it is not antithetical to consider that perhaps not all sources need to be of the same resolution. Indeed, it could be argued that the human "ear-brain" may be incapable of such quality distinctions once the quantity of sources exceeds a certain threshold. Be that as it may, the ability to have timbral differences between the different recording media will have its advantages, which is why I didn't initially seek out a large frame 2" ATR for this series of projects (or for that matter simply use a DAW for all tracking and add analog media simulation as a post-processing effect).

It'll be a while before I can post back my progress to this group, as I've already had to do a ton of research in a very short time to get this far. It will take me some time to finish selecting, procuring, and building the tools necessary to accomplish productive output and provide proof-of-concept.
Meanwhile, wish me luck in finding and integrating sync boxes and cabling!
 
OK...I see now that in your case, doing improvisational and spontaneous composition while recording, why this multi-machine rig would fit.
I'm doing more traditional, structured recording...and even though I tend to also use the recording session as "pre-production", experimental stage at times...I can usually break it down into sections, and there is room to take pause and do multiple dumps into the DAW as needed.

I wasn't questioning the validity of your reasoning, rather just trying to understand what your intent was and why...and that, only in order to provide the best suggestions. This being a home rec forum, and especially when it comes to the tape/analog stuff...we often get total newbs with big-eyed expectations, but they don't always have the mechanics worked out...not that I thought you were a total newb...I was just curious about your plans/goals.

Anyway...the video clip was from the "Jurassic Park" movie...the scene where Jeff Goldblum's character says:
"Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should." :D
 
Yup, I get your concerns regarding the sage advice of warning the "young'uns" to keep to the path. I often must remind myself of what the goal actually is with all this music tech stuff. Luckily, I grew up in an era wherein there was a vast resource of knowledge about electronics amongst the rank and file, and the manufacturing capability of an advanced society, (with all the commensurate component supply chain) to support actually physically building the products of wayward imaginations such as my own. I don't know how well we'll fair in this future scenario if all that capability is finally and completely farmed-out to say...China.

At least for now, I and fellow mad scientists can revel in our work until the moment of electrifying truth when we can proclaim "Eureka! It'a alive, it's aliiiiiive!"
 
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