Lost Tapes

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Findlay

Member
Sorry if this is a strange thread but Sweetbeats' fantastic thread with the Akai 12 track got me thinking of old formats. I found out that until the late 70's 2 inch audio tape was still used for video by TV studios. I remember my late brother selling a couple of 2 inch 16 track studio masters to the BBC here in the UK in 1979 for this , and I guess they were used for TV shows. Even though an album was cut from the tapes, I wish I could have them now for re-mixing on the latest equipment. Anyone else have much loved tapes they have lost?
 
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The BBC used Quad until about 1982, I think. However, they also used 2" multitracks at least until the 90s. e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRYQEmwPJjQ
So, it was more likely to have been used by Peter Howell to record on than for actually taping a TV program. AFAIK videotape still has to be polished, even on a transverse scanning system since the headwheel is rotating at 14000 RPM... Heck, it could even have been used for Lord of the Rings or Hitchhiker's Guide or something...

As for lost tapes, I'm still a bit annoyed I erased my effects tape for the instrumental on "Three Little Pigs". I had stuck a mic out the window to record ambient sounds, got a really cool sound of a cat being scared away by a dog. Unfortunately I forgot to mark the tape and reused it. The version dubbed onto the multitrack has all kinds of reverse echo and stuff added so I can't recover it from that...

Emotionally, I think my biggest loss was a program Dad taped off-air in the mid-80s, a one-off documentary about motion picture technology, largely shot in one of Berlin's film museums. The soundtrack appears to be largely cinema organ music, some of which I'd really like to identify. I had the forethought to copy the soundtrack to cassette before the videotape got wiped, but it's something that I deeply miss having. I'm not sure who the production company was either, and I suspect they've probably chucked the tapes. The kicker was that I have a VHS tape which was labelled as having the program on it, but I only found it was missing when trying to digitize it to stick on youtube.
 
Thanks for the link jp and for sharing that about that lost tape of your Dad's.

As an offshoot of this link (probably much more suited to the digital section I guess) is that I've always wondered if it would be possible to work on the copies of the master I have. The main problem is that some of the songs are spoiled by some heavy-handed synths. Would it be possible to remove these or is such a thing very difficult/impossible?
 
Back around '96 I was working in an A/V department and TV studio ...and they still had these old Ampex video machines that used 2" tape. At the time, we were shooting with Sony Betacams on 1/2" tape, and doing editing either on Sony analog systems or on some of the new Avid digital systems that had recently been added...but...the old Ampex machines were still used when we needed to pull some archived footage off those 2" reels.
I'm not sure if the formulation of those Ampex 2" video tapes is the same as the 2" audio tapes...probably very similar, just made to deal with the differences in signal types...but anyway, they were fun to use. HUGE machines that stood up vertically, and you had the TV monitors so you could monitor the tapes.

Then one day, we got a new guy in charge...and he suddenly wanted to go all-digital.
So...no shit...out went all the old Ampex gear, all the 2" tapes, and we also had tons of 16mm film archives and machines with all kinds of historic stuff of them...and he literally just had it all rolled out and tossed. :facepalm:

I left shortly after that and moved over to the multimedia department....not because of the switch to digital, it was just a mellower atmosphere in multimedia...:)...but I really liked camera work a lot. Did a bunch of sports shoots, mostly football (college stuff), got to travel to a few states....though I wouldn't do it today. It was a lot of work...hauling those massive Betacams, and 30lbs of battery packs around my waist...plus it was always a 4-5 AM start to get set up.
Sometimes I shot off a tripod in one location...other times I was always on the move...very labor intensive...but I liked those Sony cameras more than the small digital stuff they got later. You could do nice steady shots with the bigger cameras....the small digital stuff would twitch if you took a deep breath.

Anyway...those are all lost tapes now...the 2" stuff...the 16mm film (ok not tape)...and even most of the Betacam tapes are probably gone at this point...at some landfill, I'm sure.
 
The 2" quad video tape is not the same formulation as audio tape. There are a couple of guys in the states that still stay pretty busy archiving 2" quad video for various customers...and are absolute experts at operating and maintaining the machines. Nice guys.

The Ampex MM-1000 was based on a quad video transport.
 
I used a cassette to make a demo for a film I was scoring back in January, then erased the tape to record the final score. Kind of sad that I did that now, but I do have the digital multitracks so if I ever want to go back and pull something off them. That's probably the lamest story on this thread, and I hope I never have any greater regrets...
 
I made the mistake of accidentally swapping the bias amp and right side R/P amp cards in my Tascam BR-20T halftrack. Amazingly the swap did no damage to any of the electronics, but this occurred while I was in the midst of calibrating the machine, and with the bias amp card parked in the R/P amp slot bias signal went to tape regardless of the state of the record status functions...I erased large passages on half of the tape of my new MRL multi-frequency tape before I realized why things were so wonky. Embarrassing tape loss. :(
 
I've got all my old...OLD...4-track 1/4" multitrack tapes from way back. Don't have a 4-track deck anymore...I think I sold that about 15 years ago. I don't expect I'll ever play those tapes again....but I do have the stereo mixes too, and those I can play on my Otari 2-track which can do either 1/2 track or 1/4 track playback.
There's really nothing on the multitrack tapes that I would ever want/need....I mean, it's not like I would go back and re-record any one of the tracks....that stuff is ancient...:D...but at least I can still hear the final mixes if I need a trip down memory lane. :p

Now it will be the same with my 1/2" 16-track tapes...since I sold the two Fostex G16 decks a few weeks ago...but all those tapes were transferred to the DAW, so I can still work with them, though same as my old 4-track stuff...I have no intention of reworking any of them. I don't go back too often...once it's done, it's done...and if I like a song and wish I had recorded some things differently, I will simply redo the whole song, from scratch on my 2" 24 track...though I've only done that with maybe a couple of songs. I tend to prefer writing new songs and recording them.
That said...on the CD I did several years ago...I was never happy with the final mixes, because I was eager to just finish that project and move on...so I've thought about remixing at least half of those songs at some point...the better ones, and if need be (if I ever actually do that) I may at that time add something or redo some of the tracks...but that's just an idea for now.

So I hold on to those 4-track and 16-track multitrack tapes...though I think they will probably never be played again...and remain kinda lost. :)
 
Thanks for these stories. Just thought I'd add a small tale about a tape which I almost lost. In fact it was a tape I had forgotten ever existed.

I was clearing out a loft cupboard a few months back and came across about 30 old cassettes dating back to 1971-2 and recorded on a Philips portable. For some reason I picked up a BASF C90, labelled up as being some rock band or other (Led Zep I think) and took it down to play on my Sony deck. I wasn't interested in the music, just in how this old tape would perform recording on a newer machine with proper bias and Dolby S etc. I played it just to make sure there was nothing valuable on it - quickly skipping through side A and 9/10 of the way through side B. I was just about to use the last few minutes to record some test tones when something stopped me and made me check this last bit properly. And am I glad I did. I pushed play and out came this stunning song that my late brother had recorded - I must have copied it from the original made on his Tandberg 3000x 45 years ago and forgotten about it. It is the only surviving copy of this forgotten song. The quality wasn't bad at all, considering, and it is going to be released on heavyweight vinyl soon. I'm going to be extra careful from now on with old tapes!
 
Glad you liked it! I maybe should add that after the initial euphoria of hearing his voice ringing out with this great song, it soon changed to panic as I looked at the cassette window and saw the tape perilously close to the end... As the guitar solo started it was on the last windings and I was desperately hoping I had got it all. Thankful as th solo ended it went into the final part of the song before it got to the leader. I was able to fade out the ending on the digital copy I made to make it sound ok. I found the hand-written lyrics to this lost song in an old notebook a few weeks later at my Mother's house - as you say, priceless!
 
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The 1/2 inch 16 track of a demo we did was rendered unplayable because it was done on a goofy fostex machine with an odd noise reduction. The only fostex machines we could ever find with that noise reduction all ran at double the speed.

When we were looking to do something with it, digital was still just 44.1k or 48k, so we could just sample it at 96k and play it back at 48k... Then the tapes went sticky.

All gone.
 
And the opposite: What about found tapes?

When I was haunting the studios of Hollywood/Burbank a few years back looking for equipment. Many times after doing deals on equipment the offer was made for: take these tapes if you like. now that you bought the machine we have no use for them. LOTS of 2" masters. Some of the biggest names in music on those tapes. Do to IP rights they have no value as I think one could find ones self in very hot water real quick. But it is awesome to hear the raw masters of so many albums and mix them the way I'd like, priceless!
 
mdainsd said:
And the opposite: What about found tapes?
Click to expand...

Bizarrely I have the 1" master for 'Woodstock' by Matthews Southern Comfort, which was a number 1 single. The amount I paid for it was scandalous - less than a roll of blank 1" tape.
It played remarkably well on the MSR-24. Sadly there wasn't any talkback or other comments, and apart from the 8-track version it was mostly practice runs or noodling on drums, bass and vibe guitar.
 
Blimey JP - this is one of my favourite recordings of all time! I've just sent you a message about it.

I love the new turn this thread is taking. Just wanted to add that just after I'd found the tape of that new song of my brother's I digitised it and sent it to a record producer who mailed back within 10 minutes to say he wanted to release it on heavyweight vinyl....
 
Findlay said:
Blimey JP - this is one of my favourite recordings of all time! I've just sent you a message about it.

I love the new turn this thread is taking. Just wanted to add that just after I'd found the tape of that new song of my brother's I digitised it and sent it to a record producer who mailed back within 10 minutes to say he wanted to release it on heavyweight vinyl....
Click to expand...

Let us know when it's out, I'd be interested to hear it.

As for the Woodstock tape, I actually found the thing on ebay by chance and bid on it, figuring I'd lose. It came with a certificate saying that it was from Iain Matthew's private collection, and this note finished with a line something like "I have no idea how I ended up with this."

Being on non-backcoated tape it threw me a little as I wasn't sure which side was the playable side at first, but it did mean that it played fine with no stickiness, having been manufactured in 1969 or 1970. When I first got it the tape was wound head-out (naughty!) and the start was quite manky and worn. I've given it proper leader on both ends, though this did mean cutting off the manky part of the tape. I'm not quite sure what to do with the cutting as it is kind of like a sacred relic from the late hippy era.
 
Sure - will let you know when it is released. There is going to be a double cd issue around Christmas of the first 2 albums (recorded on a Tandberg 3000x in the early 70s) with this song and others as extras, then a heavyweight vinyl LP in the new year with this song and a others from other old tapes I found.

Awesome how you got this MSC tape. Is there anything at all on the cutting? As you say, a sacred relic!
 
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