An Interesting Drum Issue

bachelorb

Cowboy Chord Virtuoso
I'm wondering if its the tapes, but thought I ought to ask y'all about it. I have a Tascam 234 and am using new "high bias" tapes, but the drums are fading and getting louder on the track without me adjusting anything. I thought the head might be dirty, but I've clean and demagnitize them after every song I do.
I don't notice it on the other tracks (....and yes, I always do track 4 for drums......)

Any Ideas?????

Thanks,

Braf
 
What are your levels peaking at?
I push em just a little.... the bass ( or as you new fangled kids say “ the kicker” :) ) pushes in the red.... but then it will fall back to mid meter and then come back to pushing red later..... It’s a drum track, so I’m assuming it should be the same level all the way through.
It’s not consistent though..... most songs the drum track is fine.... a few it’s all over the place (on at least two different casettes)
 
Just for kicks and giggles (hahah how punny is that?) try dropping the level on the drums a little so your peaks stay at or below 0VU. Those are averaging meters, so your peaks are actually well above what you see on the meter, especially with percussive dynamics like drums. The suggested possibility it is a dbx issue is a good idea. dbx noise reduction does not like extreme or near extreme levels...it can’t track well under those circumstances. Even on an open reel 15ips machine conservative levels are the order of the day if using dbx. So, try it. Alternatively you can try your idea to track without it, but then you’ll have increased noise.

“Kicker”...is that really what the youngins are calling it? I guess that’s not too far from “kick drum” which is what I typically say. Kick drum, kick mic...but...hm...”bass drum head”, “bass drum pedal”...I’m all over the place.
 
demagnitize them after every song I do.

As others suggested, might be dbx and/or levels, but you demag after every song? Its a whole different topic, but I rarely demag anymore. Maybe if I open up for routine or other maintenance, I'll do it then. But I'm always worried I'll get distracted during the process.
 
As others suggested, might be dbx and/or levels, but you demag after every song? Its a whole different topic, but I rarely demag anymore. Maybe if I open up for routine or other maintenance, I'll do it then. But I'm always worried I'll get distracted during the process.

I started doing that when the drums started dropping out (I forgot what a controversial item demagnetizing is .... :)

An update..... I recorded the drums on track 3. Levels all below 0VU. There was one small dropout and recovery. I re-recorded (same track and same levels), and didn't have a dropout.

Here's a 30 second clip of what I'm talking about
it changes at around 17 seconds. (it doesn't sound near as dramatic in that clip as when you've listened to the song)...
 
I thought the head might be dirty, but I've clean and demagnitize them after every song I do.

I didn't even catch this, because I was thinking about the DBX.

Like fstrat76 said...I would also suggest you stop doing that and forget about it for at least a month's worth of recording. :)

Back in the day...way back...when I had a 4-track open reel, and I was mixing down to a stereo cassette...I would demag regularly, like if I was recording all week (on and off) I would demag at the end of that, but I would always clean the heads and tape path after every session if the tape got a lot of work, and then if the deck sat for a longer time, I would clean the heads again.

These days...with my big 2" 24-track deck, and even before when I had the 1/2" 16-track...I stopped doing those weekly or even monthly demags.
TBH...I've been using my 2" for the last couple of years now (not every week, but I've gone through a few reels of tape on it)...and I can't remember the last time I demagnetized the heads/tape path. I don't even think about it all that much, and there has been some testing done that shows it's really not needed as much as myth has it.

All that said...with a cassette deck, considering it's a multi-track, which means real, real small track widths on the tape...I would may be demag that occasionally, since everything is kinda packed in there, and with such tight tolerances....but I mean like once a month if you really use it a lot during the month.

Back to the DBX...
The reason I asked if you were using it, is because the high level off the drums may be causing the DBX to "pump"...and that's what you are hearing.
If I'm not mistaken, there is both a compression and expansion happening with it...and possibly with the very hot levels, you are making it overreact.
That's where my thinking was going when I mentioned it earlier.

You can certainly test it by recording the same hit levels with and without.
Another thing...I would not hit a cassette deck with overly hot signals anyway...because your are NOT going to get any tape "saturation/compression" BEFORE you distort the preamps....so forget that "record hot" idea altogether. Just get a healthy signal, but keep it in the safe zone.
 
One additional tip-de-oxit all input and output jacks and double check all cables. Its the little s__t that will bite you. Or at least it does me!:p
 
Back to the DBX...
The reason I asked if you were using it, is because the high level off the drums may be causing the DBX to "pump"...and that's what you are hearing.
If I'm not mistaken, there is both a compression and expansion happening with it...and possibly with the very hot levels, you are making it overreact.
That's where my thinking was going when I mentioned it earlier.

You can certainly test it by recording the same hit levels with and without.
Another thing...I would not hit a cassette deck with overly hot signals anyway...because your are NOT going to get any tape "saturation/compression" BEFORE you distort the preamps....so forget that "record hot" idea altogether. Just get a healthy signal, but keep it in the safe zone.

This is a great point. I just finally picked up a couple DBX DX-4D units for my 38. I did some research on these and found that the levels can't be too hot with them engaged. Pumping sounds etc. Somewhere I thought I read the levels actually may show 1 or 2db difference on the VU's with DBX engaged. Definitely try lower levels recording.
 
As a follow up. I recorded drums to track 3 and reduced the levels with no problems. I switched the bass to track 4 (where I was having the problems) It faded on me once, I took out the tape and cleaned the head with alcohol, rerecorded and it was fine.

It seems like though I have to clean the head two or three times a song with alcohol. Every time I do, the q-tip is a little black. I'm really wondering why all the black on the q-tips. The tapes were new last year and this problem has happened with two separate tapes.... It's frustrating and perplexing at the same time....
 
Well...they may have been "new" last year (as in never been used before)...but how old are they from the date of manufacture?
If you are getting that much gunk throughout one session...you might want to try different tape, rather than continue with the same....just to confirm if it's the tape.

Also...what condition is your pinch roller in.?
I'm not sure on those decks if it presses on the recording side of the tape or the back of the tape...?
If it's pressing on the recording side, check that the pinch roller is not gummy...the stuff on the Q-Tips being "black" and not "brown" makes me wonder.
 
The fact that you move the bass to track 3 and working ok seems to point to head wear,as the tape will wear a groove in the head and the tape can skew in and out of that groove causing the levels to fade in and out.
 
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