Dolby for tape decks

Saudade

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:D

Ok I got a Tascam 22-2, I'm looking for recommendations for any "affordable" used outboard Dolby/dbx NR units out there, preferably those easy to get in the used pro audio market or ebay.

I saw some Dolby 363s but they are kinda expensive. Any good alternatives?

erm btw I have no idea how to use them...from what I gather for recording I got to input my source signal into the NR unit, then channel the encoded signal into the 22-2; and for playback, channel the playback signal from the 22-2 into the NR unit and output from the NR unit for monitoring. Is that correct?:confused:

I have heard a Studer A80 24-track playing back stuff with or w/o Dolby and the difference was huge. :eek:
 
Have you done recordings without NR yet? Even just using a gate will make a big difference.

I've never had any issues with the amount of hiss on my 22-2. Just keep the levels strong, and like I said, a gate and compressor will really help.

-MD
 
...Do yourself a favor and read up on the uses of Dolby and such before buying/using. You have the basic idea right, but Dolby, if set wrong, can cause undesirable side-effects to the recording. The 363 units in particular (because they are pro) need the correct in-out-through flow of levels to prevent issues when recording/playing back.

You don't want to try to remedy one thing at the expense of good frequency response and such on your machine.

As for the Studer, if the tape on it was recorded with Dolby A or SR and then played back without it, yes, the difference would certainly show :eek: and not in a good way.
Now, if you are saying you heard the Studer play back (correctly) Dolby-encoded tapes and then, for comparison, you heard a non-encoded tape played back, you have good ears, because yes, Dolby (A or SR) are quite effective on tape hiss.

Good Luck,
C.
 
A bit of a sleeper which I have is an Advent Model 101 stand alone noise reduction unit. Nice and stout and I don't hear many negative reprocussions when you calibrate it (which is a do it yourself sorta thing). For a live electric band I've found NR to be unecessary (I have a 22-4 and I've never needed it) but for acoustic performances it is kind of nice to have.
 
Sony NR-500 Dolby C
You’ll need two of the NR-500 if you want to monitor off the tape during recording... but you don't have to monitor off repro. One will do in that case.

Nakamichi NR-200 Dolby B & C
You only need one of the Naks because it does simultaneous encode/decode.

DBX 150X Type I
You’ll need two of these if monitoring off the tape. They are half-rack size so are easier to manage.

DBX 150 Type I
Similar to the 150X, but full 19” rack. I like the 150X a bit better.

Rocktron 120A System One
This is neither Dolby nor DBX, but is closer to DBX Type I. This is the best sounding NR of them all, IMO. The big problem with this is that it’s very uncommon, so you will have a hard time replacing it if broken. It also never caught on as a standard because Dolby and DBX were already too entrenched, so you can’t send an encoded tape anywhere and expect anyone else to be able to play it back. I have one and it does a great job, but I worry about having to many encoded tapes if it should stop working.

There are several older pro Dolby A units made by Dolby Labs, like the 360 and 361, but they are getting on in years and will likely need some components replaced and internal tweaking. I don’t recommend those for people new to analog or noise reduction.

There also tons of vintage Dolby B units like the TEAC AN-80. This is one of my favorite consumer B types, but you can’t turn off the MPX filter, so it has no frequency response above 15k.

Behringer SNR-202 Denoiser 2-channel single-ended
This is one of the best single-ended noise reduction systems out there. It was made in Germany by the old (real) Behringer. It was also known as the Studio Denoiser MKIII before it was called the SNR-202. The newer outsourced Denoisers like the SNR2000 and SNR1000 aren’t in the same class.

A single-ended device is sort of like a smart gate. The tape is not encoded, so you don’t have to worry about having a bunch of encoded tapes around. You just put it between your reel-to-reel and digital portal… PC, CD recorder, or whatever.

You can also make the 22-2 (and other decks) quieter by swapping out opamps and resistors, if you know your way around circuit boards and are good with soldering irons. Not all the hiss is from the tape.

DBX seems to be a little more forgiving with calibration.

DBX Type I and Dolby A were the two most common pro standards in the industry when analog was king. Dolby SR came out later. There is also Dolby S, but good luck finding it in an outboard unit. And with Dolby S you have the same problem as the Rocktron 120A because it's so uncommon.

Dolby SR is great, but the model 363 that some people are falling all over themselves to get is not that great. There are mods for it, and IMO it needs a lot of hacking to measure up to older Dolby SR units. I wouldn’t mind having one, but the first thing I would do is take it apart and go to work.

:)
 
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what kind of stuff are you recording?

I just bought a Tascam 38, and I don't think I will be using any NR with it, at least not at first. If I find I'm getting too much hiss, then I may need to re-think this angle. But most of the stuff I record is loud guitar-driven rock, so I figure if I keep levels hot, signal to noise will be low. I really don't like what dbx does to cassette tape anyway.

I guess what I am getting at here is this: do you really NEED noise reduction? Do you find that your recordings are too noisy?
 
For loud, guitar-driven music, you should be fine.

I even did a recording on a Tascam 488 (8 track cassette) without NR, and because the levels were so hot, you couldn't really hear any hiss. Any hiss that is there, before a song gets started, could easily be removed by a noise-gate or within your computer.

-MD
 
:) Thanks for all the helpful tips

Hmm...yeah maybe some of you are right, i should think about whether I DO need NR...my stuff is done all in a DAW, programmed drums, real guitars/bass/vox. I'm using my deck purely to bounce (ahem..."master") the mix to deck and then record it back to my DAW. It isn't rock or anything heavy, pop-rock would be closer description.

I'm using some old Scotch 207 (which the ebay seller threw in with the deck) which I find I can't really push the levels up much without it sounding "glassy" or harsh in my own words. Maybe the deck wasn't calibrated properly etc (erm....don't open that can of worms cos I know jack shit about calibration or anything technical...:rolleyes:)

Like I said it isn't rock so I am not going for the smack, but rather I enjoy the FAT bottom end plus a little "brightness" at the top which I already get by keeping my levels pretty conservative. I know I could probably get closer to the "glassy point" (to improve on the S/N ratio?) by putting some "2 buss" compression or limiting in my DAW to squash the transients by 6dB thereabouts, before it hits the deck. But most of the time I prefer the sound of not having anything on the "2-buss". Compound this with the fact that I use as minimal track/group compression as possible even on drums.....

So as you can see I am trying to use the deck as my "mix glue" but like I said the wild transients (like drum hits) just forces me to keep my overall recording levels to tape quite low to avoid that nasty "glassiness". Yeah....I think I can live with the hiss, but wonder what my audience would make of it...

I just ordered some new RMGI LPR35 and SM468 so I hope I could have more different sounds/saturation points to play with.:D

I recalled my hearing the Studer playback was firstly with Dolby encoding/decoding and 2ndly without encode/decode. The hiss was gone with the Dolby but the fatness remains! ;) Best of both worlds...

I can't remember which dolby model it was, but it was I think golden colour and many rack units tall with a lot of knobs....
 
207 has a good reputation for smooth compression, so The first thing I would do is take your 22-2 in and have it biased and levels set for 207... or whatever tape you plan on using. If the 22-2 is set for Maxell UD 35-90, which they often were, it won’t be right on for 207.

Also make sure you're using high speed... 15 ips or things like sibilance and hi-hats will sound harsh on peaks.

:)
 
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