Cleaning Faders...

[sweetbeats]

Prompted by a discussion I've been having with someone I took a short video demonstrating how I open up the faders found on many, many Tascam mixers (as well as other brands) in order to effectively clean them. Here is the video:

YouTube

Hope it is helpful.

BTW, these are the faders we are talking about...the typical ALPS low profile faders like this:

 

[Ignatius-]

Wow, that's great... I just picked up an m-312b and think I need to clean the faders. It's the only problem with the mixer (which I already love). The faders make a crackling sound whenever they are moved - I haven't taken it apart yet, but I would assume that it has something to do with getting them cleaned (?)... I might order some of that Deoxit F5 in a couple of days and try it out (if that is the problem). Thanks a bunch for the video.

 

[cjacek]

Prompted by a discussion I've been having with someone I took a short video demonstrating how I open up the faders found on many, many Tascam mixers (as well as other brands) in order to effectively clean them.

Here is a link to the video...it is in Quicktime format and is around 45Mb in size so be patient :

Hope it is helpful.

BTW, these are the faders we are talking about...the typical ALPS low profile faders like this:

Yes, immensely helpful, Cory. Many thanks for this especially well made and informative video. It's really a one of a kind "how to...." on cleaning faders. Haven't seen anything like it anywhere. Thanks for the time it took you to do this.

Do you feel that serrated needle-nose pliers are better suited for this or would smooth ones do? I have the latter.

I like the idea of spraying the make up remover pads (with the cleaner) and wiping the element. Might prove cleaner than spraying soldered in elements in my 320. Good option to have. I'll have to actually go and do one and I'll prob have questions answered for me, rather than speculate.

Wow, that's great... I just picked up an m-312b and think I need to clean the faders. It's the only problem with the mixer (which I already love). The faders make a crackling sound whenever they are moved - I haven't taken it apart yet, but I would assume that it has something to do with getting them cleaned (?)... I might order some of that Deoxit F5 in a couple of days and try it out (if that is the problem). Thanks a bunch for the video.

Heh, ain't it funny. I have the same thing going on with my 320B. I'd be real surprised if a good cleaning (as per Cory's video) wouldn't resolve the issue. Mine had a spill in its history and, as Cory pointed out, those things have the elements horizontal and dirt, grime, dust and spills accumulate in there, especially in boards which were not taken care of well (not covered, gigged with drinks spills etc....). Some faders are open bottom and have elements on its side but that's another story...

Again, excellent video from sweetbeats!! Guys, give Cory more REP points!!

 

[The Great Cobb]

fader help

Beyond helpful.

Thanks.

 

[miroslav]

BTW, these are the faders we are talking about...the typical ALPS low profile faders like this:

I'll just point out that on some TASCAM mixers (like the 3500 series) the ALPS faders are a different type (ALPS K fader), they are bigger and actually come apart quite easy (no pliers needed).

Also...while I can't speak for the type of ALPS seen in your video, I can say that for the ALPS K faders found in my 3500...the Caig Fader Lube is NOT what you would want to use.
I spoke in depth with TASCAM and Caig about this a few years back, and TASCAM specifically told me not to use any type of lubricant in the ALPS K fader....Caig agreed.

What was recommended by Caig was the D100 (not the D5). Reason was that the D5 has solvent in it, which is needed when you can't get at the area you are cleaning and when the object is very dirty --- the solvent helps flush the gunk away. However, the solvent does leave a residue behind.
But with something like a fader that can come apart, the D100 is pure cleaner and no solvent...so it was the best choice for the faders. You wipe it on to clean, then you wipe it dry so as not to leave any film behind.

Again…the Caig Fader Lube may be just the ticket for some brands/types of faders…but not for all.

 

[sweetbeats]

Do you feel that serrated needle-nose pliers are better suited for this or would smooth ones do? I have the latter.

Daniel, I'd use the ones with serrated jaws...the serration grabs the tip of the lock tab when opening the fader up, and when you are closing it the pliers kind of rock on the lock tab so that you aren't just squeezing but rather applying pressure and rocking the lock tab back over to the closed position and the serrations help there again to grab the tip of the tab. I hope that makes sense. I think smooth jaws might result in some frustrating slippage.

I'll just point out that on some TASCAM mixers (like the 3500 series) the ALPS faders are a different type (ALPS K fader), they are bigger and actually come apart quite easy (no pliers needed).

Also...while I can't speak for the type of ALPS seen in your video, I can say that for the ALPS K faders found in my 3500...the Caig Fader Lube is NOT what you would want to use.
I spoke in depth with TASCAM and Caig about this a few years back, and TASCAM specifically told me not to use any type of lubricant in the ALPS K fader....Caig agreed.

What was recommended by Caig was the D100 (not the D5). Reason was that the D5 has solvent in it, which is needed when you can't get at the area you are cleaning and when the object is very dirty --- the solvent helps flush the gunk away. However, the solvent does leave a residue behind.
But with something like a fader that can come apart, the D100 is pure cleaner and no solvent...so it was the best choice for the faders. You wipe it on to clean, then you wipe it dry so as not to leave any film behind.

Again…the Caig Fader Lube may be just the ticket for some brands/types of faders…but not for all.

Thanks, Miroslav.

So are the K faders like the one pictured below? Those are the type that came in my M-520 as well as my M-308B...I believe they were an option for those mixers. They are also the type that are in my Soundtracs MX. Those are conductive plastic. Its interesting to me that Caig Labs themselves say don't use F5 FaderLube when F5 was designed, in part, for conductive plastic faders...sez right on the can, but I'm not going to argue with the horse's mouths (Caig and Teac).

Oh, and assuming what is pictured below is a 'K' type, how do you get them apart? Does that side cover just pop off? I've never tried to get into one but it'll be time before long if I have cleaning to do in any of my Soundtracs faders...

 

[cjacek]

Daniel, I'd use the ones with serrated jaws...the serration grabs the tip of the lock tab when opening the fader up, and when you are closing it the pliers kind of rock on the lock tab so that you aren't just squeezing but rather applying pressure and rocking the lock tab back over to the closed position and the serrations help there again to grab the tip of the tab. I hope that makes sense. I think smooth jaws might result in some frustrating slippage.

Yup, I had a feeling that would be your advice. Makes total sense. Will get some serrated ones indeed.

Its interesting to me that Caig Labs themselves say don't use F5 FaderLube when F5 was designed, in part, for conductive plastic faders...sez right on the can, but I'm not going to argue with the horse's mouths (Caig and Teac).

Hmm, I too have a problem with the contrasting views, first with a product which was explicitly intended for faders and then TEAC advises against. What's more troubling is that Caig follows suit. WTF? This doesn't sit right with me. Do they or do they not stand behind their product? Makes me question their competency. I mean, pretty much F5 is standard for those types of things. Doesn't it make sense to leave some type of proper lubricant (which F5 does) after the element's been cleaned, rather than a dry element and wipers? I see much more wear in the latter scenario.

 

[miroslav]

This is the ALPS K-Fader, found in the TASCAM M-3500 console. I included an AAA battery for size comparison, they are 100mm throw faders. As you can see, they just pop open, and snap back together. There are built-in clips on the ends that make it possible.

Don't view the TASCAM/Caig info as contradictory. I'm sure the Caig Fader Lube is the right choice for *some* faders...but not for the ALPS K-Fader...which is dry-as-a-bone even when purchased new (I know). The TASCAM tech I spoke with was clear to point out that any type of lubricant would only gunk up the K-Fader, and Caig agreed, saying that particular fader (and some others) are supposed to be dry, and that their Fader Lube would be the wrong product for it.

So...it's important to find out what YOUR particular fader requires --- a lubricant cleaner or a dry cleaner. If the virgin fader appears 100% dry when first opened, I would not use the lubricant cleaner on them…IMHO. As TASCAM/Caig said...the dry-style faders will appear to be fine at first if you do use the Fader Lube on them, but will only fail/gunk-up that much sooner afterwards. I went their suggestions.
The D100 was the cleaner of choice for the K-Fader, and quite honestly, having used D100 for several years, I think it's possibly the best pure cleaner (no solvent).
If you get the D100, I recommend the small non-spray bottle, and then just apply it with a small brush or Q-Tip (I think some bottles come with a brush).
The pump-spray version doesn't always spray well…sometimes you have to pump it several times to get one burst until it’s primed…and then if you don’t spray again for a few minutes…you have repeat the priming.

 

[cjacek]

Thanks for clarifying miroslav...... Can anyone confirm then, prior to me prying one open, what those ALPS "low profile faders" are like.. dry or lubricated?

 

[sweetbeats]

Well that K fader doesn't look like conductive plastic...it looks like a carbon type element which is like the low profile fader, though its hard to tell if they're dry when I open them because they're always covered with so much black crud.

Hm...

.. . . . ...

 

[miroslav]

Well that K fader doesn't look like conductive plastic...it looks like a carbon type element

Si.

 

[GCalo]

Wonderful how interest for this area never seems to fade!!!

 

[cjacek]

I was able to garner that the alps faders in question (low profile and otherwise), are indeed carbon based (not conductive plastic) so I'm assuming F5 (or any lubrication) would be wrong for this purpose... It's interesting that Caig's F5 states that it's in part used for "carbon compound faders". Hmm.. Is there a consensus on this, one way or another? More

 

[VESSEL2020]

excellent!!!

 

[miroslav]

Is there a consensus on this, one way or another? More

I think if you don't get a definitive word from TASCAM or Caig (or just wish to find out for yourself)...the best way would be to take two faders, hit one with the Fader Lube and the other with the D100 stuff....
...wait a few months and see which one holds up better!

I didn't mean to throw the fly into the ointment with all this... ...I was just going with what I was told awhile back when my own 3500 faders needed cleaning. I do agree, there's a bit of confusion surrounding the Fader Lube and I too originally thought that was the product to get...but the advice I got was good and I've had great results with the D100.

IMHO...unless you know 100% your faders need the Lube...the D100 will do the least "damage".
IOW...if the D100 isn't working for you, I think there will be less impact to then apply some Fader Lube afterwards…than it would the going other way around.

Then again...maybe we're over thinking this...?

 

[GCalo]

Miroslav has made good points but no one mentioned contacting ALPS to ask them!

And remember when in doubt leave it out.

Not a good idea to learn the hard way.

 

[miroslav]

Good luck contacting ALPS!
I tried when I was looking for some older ALPS pots for another piece of equipment.
I got nowhere with them.
Yeah...after a few emails to their Contact address, someone replied...but it was a very strained email exchange, almost like the ALPS party didn't understand English very well and all I got was a bunch of useless info and was told to contact some of their distributors for parts, since ALPS is a manufacturer that mainly deals in quantity sales with other manufacturers...they don't have an end-user sales/support department that I could ever find.
If anyone has better luck making contact with ALPS...let me know! I'm still in need of some special ALPS pots for another piece of gear.

Also...much of their stuff is built to order. It's not all stock ALPS parts that most audio manufacturers use over and over, so if it's something older that was a custom build, good luck!
Lucky for me, the ALPS K-Fader is still current and can be found through a couple of suppliers...like Mouser or even TASCAM, though not cheap --- like $30 a pop!
But there is another supplier, Newark, and they had them for less. I ended up buying a whole bunch of 3500 parts from a guy who parted out his 3500…so I took the best of all the faders I had and put them in my board, and I still have a bunch of spares and a few new ones. I acquired a nice pile of spare parts from him (even have a spare refurb PS for the 3500 ).
My 3500 is already 20 years old…but I can now keep it going for another 20!

 

[dodgeaspen]

Man this video sucks! Just kidding. After looking at the video I realized I used the D5 cleaner and not the F5 on my faders. It's been about a year and I've had 0 problems. I remember Cory telling me to be aware of the different types. I guess time will tell.

 

[sweetbeats]

I'm waiting to hear back from Caig Labs.

Not doubting what they said about your K faders, Miroslav, just wondering if that applies to the low-profile faders too or if there is something special about them.

I linked his thread in my email to them.

I'll keep you all "posted".

 

[cjacek]

Excellent linking Caig to this thread with your email, Cory. I too am looking forward to their reply. Thanks for doing that.

Thanks also to miroslav for "stirring the pot" . It's always good to have as much info as possible. "Over-thinking"? Perhaps but sometimes that's a good thing.