Cleaning Faders...

I've been doing some further digesting of the words exchanged here (and also some research on the net) and I'm indeed leaning toward the D100. What I would like to know, however, is whether 99% isopropyl alcohol can be used on an especially grimy carbon surface, prior to doing the D100? Will the alcohol harm the carbon surface? Also, miroslav, how much time has elapsed since you cleaned your faders with the D100? Still doing OK? BTW, good suggestion on the non-spray bottle. I've got a local store here that has the D100 in 2oz. Pricey tho. :eek: Thanks!:)
 
It's been awhile since I first cleaned them. Originally I did some fader cleaning with the D100 at least 3-4 years ago...???
But then a year ago I purchased that bunch of spare 3500 parts, including a couple of dozen faders.

Last December I gave my 3500 a major cleaning...faders, pots, switches, jacks...(took a couple of days). At that time, I cleaned all the faders, the ones already in the console and the ones I acquired, as they were kind of gunky on the outside --- that's what happens when people spray cleaner just through the top of the boards into the slider cracks and the spray just goes all over everything! Some of the faders I got from him were still WET with excess spray on the outside…but NOTHING on the inside where it was needed! :D

Once I cleaned everything, I sorted through the entire lot of faders and picked the ones that had the smoothest operation. Those are what I put back into the console, saving the other clean ones for future spares.

When I cleaned my faders a few years back with the D100...they stayed nice thought that period, and last spring I used that console to mix my album...didn't have any issues. Of course...there's only so much that cleaning will do. At some point, they do wear out a bit, and even clean, they don't quite have the super-smooth feel of brand new ones...BUT...they have no static/noise, and work fine. That's why I picked through all of my faders for ones that also had the smoothest feel...otherwise, they all work well after the cleaning.

So yeah...let’s see what Caig has to say about which product is best for specific types of faders.
Have you tried calling TASCAM? I don't know who is left over there of the older crew in tech support...but there was a senior guy (name???) there still a few years back who was around when many of those analog tape decks and consoles were introduced by TASCAM...so he really knew all the fine details about each product.
 
If you look at the Caig Fader Lube data sheet....

https://system.netsuite.com/core/me...EFXAaS7u-Yr&vid=SiaZwEFXAXi7u38i&cktime=87873

It doesn't really say that Fader Lube is a *cleaner/deoxidizer*...it's more specifically a lubricant, and it also says it's NOT for metal contacts (which is what most fader brushes are).

???????? :confused:

But the D100 data sheet...

https://system.netsuite.com/core/me...EFXAaS7u-Yr&vid=SiaZwEFXAXi7u38i&cktime=87873

...specifies that D100 is a cleaner/deoxidizer (and also a lubricant) meant for metal contacts.
 
Last edited:
"Jimmy" as well as Jim Finch were still in the Analog Support department there at Teac, though its been awhile since I've had to call down there...if I don't hear back from Caig I'll call for one of them.

Yes the wipers are indeed metal but the element is not whether carbon or plastic...the 'D' series products are for metal indeed but specifically for metal-to-metal contacts.

I've had some gear like you talk about, Miroslav, where it seemes like somebody unloaded a cup of animal fat into the contacts...the mode control switches on my Ampex were like that...just gross and all it does is make it so the dirt and dust stucks. That's why what I've done with the the F5 in the case of faders is flush and clean and then blow and wipe clean wihth a pad moistened with the cleaner...it does dry. By the time I'm putting it back together the assembly is dry. unless you look at the label on the can I can't tell the difference between the D5 and the F5...it behaves the same.
 
Lots of good info from miroslav and Cory (sweetbeats). Thanks guys but don't you hate it when there's no consensus? :eek: .. ;) I really wanna get at the faders (got them serrated needle nose pliers :D ) but will need to be patient. Wanna err on the side of caution and it'd be nice if Caig replies and maybe Cory's tel call to one the guys at TEAC. I'd probably stumble and stutter on the other end. ;)

BTW, guys, if it's in-fact dry carbon we're talking about (seems to be the case), what's your opinion on using 99% isopropyl alcohol on it, wipe it clean prior to using [insert product name upon consensus]? :confused:
 
OK, guys, so I couldn't stand it anymore and called up "Jimmy" at TEAC and had a brief but informative conversation with him, sometimes eye opening. He basically told me that, when it comes to a carbon based element fader, he would only recommend deionized water (as first choice) and deoxit (as second choice). He would not advise anything with lubrication. He didn't distinguish between D100 and D5 but the D5 has a lubricant, I believe, so I assume the only choice to be the D100. On the other hand, he did say that those fader elements came with silicone added. So, there you have it. What are your thoughts?
 
I'm not sure what all that means....using de-ionized water ...and if he's talking about the 3500 faders or some other specific ones....
...but the D100 been berry, berry good to me...so I'm not going to change anything at this point.


Hmmmmmmmm..."water"...with copper contacts....???
Certainly would not be my first common sense call.... *shurg* :)


Since you called TEAC...you might wanna also call Caig, since it is THEIR products in question, and I'm sure people have been using and calling about fader cleaners for a lot of other stuff besides just the TEAC/TASCAM faders...so I would think Caig should be able to make a pretty good recommendation on which products for which faders to use.
 
Yeah, I'm not sure what all this means either, other than more confusing advice. I asked him specifically about carbon element faders, in much of the 80's mixers, and that's what he said. He mentioned the deionized water (applied with a rag for instance), when you can open up the fader and the deoxit when you can't. It is a bit confusing to be certain.

Cory mentioned that he emailed Caig about this so I'll wait for that.
 
Unfortunately I've heard nothing and I'm totally buried here with the usual stuff plus crunch time on the remodel before insulation on Thursday...:eek:

(plus a couple other tidbits about which I'll be posting...)
 
So, which Deoixt product should I buy to clean out the faders on my m-312b? I have kind of waiting to see what everyone says, but... What kind of faders are in the m-312 - are they the same as in Cory's video, or are they carbon-based? Thanks for the help (and for making all these calls!).
 
Ignatius- said:
So, which Deoixt product should I buy to clean out the faders on my m-312b? I have kind of waiting to see what everyone says, but... What kind of faders are in the m-312 - are they the same as in Cory's video, or are they carbon-based? Thanks for the help (and for making all these calls!).
Click to expand...

Heh, I'm sure others are also "waiting to see.." :D .... ;)

Have you opened up the bottom of your 312 to see what type of faders you have? I understand that the stock 300 series came with low profile Alps faders, as in Cory's video. The word is that they're carbon based.

I also understand that there was an upgrade option where you could get a 300 series with those open bottom faders, similar to what miroslav has, also carbon based so it's just a question of gaining entry into it.

Chances are that your 312 has the stock ones, as per Cory's video but the cleaning "solution" would be the same (as in product to use), but we're still waiting on a consensus.

I think that one could easily justify any of the options named above, the F5, D5 and D100 but they're a bit different to each other and I'd like to have a perfect fit for the faders we're discussing. It'd be nice to settle on one product which is ideal for the job.

Lots of great people, with experience have shared their views, sweetbeats, miroslav, Jimmy (at TEAC) and there's still no consensus. Can we extrapolate from what we've seen so far tho?

Is it too far fetched to say that anything with lubrication is not ideal (for those faders)? But then why did Jimmy mention "silicone"? This would indicate that running it "dry" may not be good... Thoughts.

The ultimate question is: WHAT IS IDEAL TO USE AND NOT USE ON CARBON BASED FADERS?!
 
Straight from Caig's site (selected quotes):

"Normal" carbon surfaces will not be adversely affected by the D5 spray, however, you are working with vintage equipment, and it’s highly probable that the already fragile or mechanically weak pots will sustain damage after exposure to solvent, causing the removal of carbon.
Click to expand...

While not speaking directly about faders, it still applies 'cause we're in effect still talking about a type carbon potentiometer.

So it seems that D5 is OUT (due to its solvent) and F5 or D100 are IN, the safest of choices, if one of your worries is not to harm the fader element.

The next step is to clarify the F5 vs D100 and whether or not one is better than the other (for our particular type of fader). Chime in.
 
Have you opened up the bottom of your 312 to see what type of faders you have? I understand that the stock 300 series came with low profile Alps faders, as in Cory's video. The word is that they're carbon based.
Click to expand...

Well that was what I was kind unsure of... I haven't opened the bottom yet - my schedule has kind of inhibited that - but I will probably do it this weekend. I want to make sure I have enough time to do it in one sitting...

I just went ahead and bought the Faderlube - why not? I have another mixer that needs some fader-love and I figure that that is what it is made for... or not (?).

Anyway, thanks again for the info. I wish I could help, but I know next to nothing compared to you guys and wouldn't know where to start... I just want to get my new mixer working properly.
 
cjacek said:
Have you opened up the bottom of your 312 to see what type of faders you have? I understand that the stock 300 series came with low profile Alps faders, as in Cory's video. The word is that they're carbon based.

I also understand that there was an upgrade option where you could get a 300 series with those open bottom faders, similar to what miroslav has, also carbon based so it's just a question of gaining entry into it...
Click to expand...

Yes, the base faders for the M-300 series as well as the M-500 series are the ALPS "low-profile" faders like the subject in the video and yes these are carbon-type resistive element faders.

The "upgrade" faders are NOT carbon type...they are conductive plastic.

Here's another wrinkle (maybe)...all the pots on the mixers we're talking about are feature a carbon element. I've serviced hundreds and hundreds of those ALPS pots with F5 with great success.
 
Cory, just wanna put it on the record that I'm not questioning you, in any way but rather doing some thinking out-loud and hopefully being educated in the process. I hope we're cool.:)
 
Yeah...this is the fun of the forum...I had NO IDEA this would turn into such a spaghetti mess.

Here is a shot of the board in a fader with conductive plastic...you can see the element tracks are shiny and smooth and homogenous rather than the elements in a carbon-based fader which have a matte finish and you can see a gradation pattern in the elements in those.
 

Attachments

  • fader.jpg
    fader.jpg
    64.7 KB · Views: 85
sweetbeats said:
Yeah...this is the fun of the forum...I had NO IDEA this would turn into such a spaghetti mess.
Click to expand...

Cory, quite the contrary. IMO, anytime discussion is stimulated, we can only advance in our knowledge. I think your thread was a brilliant one and will surely prove (as it has) immensely helpful.

Here is a shot of the board in a fader with conductive plastic...you can see the element tracks are shiny and smooth and homogenous rather than the elements in a carbon-based fader which have a matte finish and you can see a gradation pattern in the elements in those.
Click to expand...

OK, I now see the difference and it does look like a night & day difference between our Alps low profile and even miroslav's K-Faders. Thanks Cory! :)

BTW: We posted at exactly the same time. See previous post please.
 
cjacek said:
Cory, just wanna put it on the record that I'm not questioning you, in any way but rather doing some thinking out-loud and hopefully being educated in the process. I hope we're cool.:)
Click to expand...

Oh-oh-oh! No absolutely not I don't think you're questioning. Seriously, I think anybody that posts in a public forum ought to do it accepting that anything they say could be questioned, so I don't get ruffled by that, and that questioning is how we advance anyway right??

Of course we're cool... :cool:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top