I'm still jonesing for one of those rack mount Pioneer reel to reel decks. 707 or 909 ??
Just think they're cool, and people that have owned or own them really seem to like 'em.
buying lp's and cassettes - true analog listening ?
- Thread starter IronWine
- Start date
I'm still jonesing for one of those rack mount Pioneer reel to reel decks. 707 or 909 ??
Just think they're cool, and people that have owned or own them really seem to like 'em.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
DM60
Well-known member
I have an Akai reel to reel like the one in the video getting ready to pull it out. I am going to see if I can do some tape saturation and maybe use it as a delay. I will need to go find some tape as all of my tape is 30+ years old.
I used my Beta machine for a tape deck and I thought it had one of the best sounds. Even better than the reel-reel.
I used my Beta machine for a tape deck and I thought it had one of the best sounds. Even better than the reel-reel.
famous beagle
Well-known member
To what are you specifically referring when you say "it all went bad?"
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
Oxide buildup, magnetization and misalignment of the head, tape damage from magnets, the sun, dust etc. In real world use the quality was prone to degradation if one wasn't careful. With digital you can make multiple perfect copies and store them in different places to safeguard the recording.
Back in the day, I'd make a "mixtape" off of CDs for my car listening pleasure.
Good tape, good deck, etc, A/B ing against the source. It sounded remarkably the same. A year or two down the road. ...nope.
It degraded sonically, thats for sure.
I still have tapes that sound good, just not as good as the day they were recorded, so yeah the medium does degrade. But that's no suprise.
Good tape, good deck, etc, A/B ing against the source. It sounded remarkably the same. A year or two down the road. ...nope.
It degraded sonically, thats for sure.
I still have tapes that sound good, just not as good as the day they were recorded, so yeah the medium does degrade. But that's no suprise.
famous beagle
Well-known member
Interesting regarding the degradation of tape. That hasn't been my experience at all.
Of course, I have no way of going back to 1988 to hear what my Steve Vai Flex-able cassette sounded like then while using my current cassette player. All I know is that the cassette still sounds great today, and if someone told me it were a new cassette, I'd believe them.
I'm not saying that the medium can't degrade if it's mistreated, but that's the same with digital for sure -- especially CDs/DVDs and their respective players. I think my wife and I went through probably 8 DVD players in the 2000s alone. We used them every day pretty much (we like to watch a show before bed), but still ... we'd only get about a year and a half with one if we were lucky. That's pathetic IMO, even for a consumer grade machine. I definitely wasn't buying Nakamichi cassette decks back in the day, and I never had a deck quit on me. I did buy a few throughout my youth (probably about 3 over a 10 year span), but that was just because I was a kid and wanted something new --- not because the deck had died.
And CDRs ... my god ... they've been terrible for me. I think I probably filled about 10 or so with data. When the third one of those failed on me --- for seemingly no reason whatsoever --- I stopped using them and starting storing everything on external hard drives.
I haven't had an external HD quit on me yet (knock on wood). I've only been doing that for about 5 years now, though, so I'm looking into online backup now, because I know they won't last forever.
And yes, you can theoretically make back-up copies of digital files forever, which is great. That's one of the best things about digital, along with the editing power, etc.
Of course, I have no way of going back to 1988 to hear what my Steve Vai Flex-able cassette sounded like then while using my current cassette player. All I know is that the cassette still sounds great today, and if someone told me it were a new cassette, I'd believe them.
I'm not saying that the medium can't degrade if it's mistreated, but that's the same with digital for sure -- especially CDs/DVDs and their respective players. I think my wife and I went through probably 8 DVD players in the 2000s alone. We used them every day pretty much (we like to watch a show before bed), but still ... we'd only get about a year and a half with one if we were lucky. That's pathetic IMO, even for a consumer grade machine. I definitely wasn't buying Nakamichi cassette decks back in the day, and I never had a deck quit on me. I did buy a few throughout my youth (probably about 3 over a 10 year span), but that was just because I was a kid and wanted something new --- not because the deck had died.
And CDRs ... my god ... they've been terrible for me. I think I probably filled about 10 or so with data. When the third one of those failed on me --- for seemingly no reason whatsoever --- I stopped using them and starting storing everything on external hard drives.
I haven't had an external HD quit on me yet (knock on wood). I've only been doing that for about 5 years now, though, so I'm looking into online backup now, because I know they won't last forever.
And yes, you can theoretically make back-up copies of digital files forever, which is great. That's one of the best things about digital, along with the editing power, etc.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
I think the first time I got my hands on a tape recorder it was around 1969. It was a GE portable machine, one of those tabletop types. It didn't even have the piano key style transport control, just a rectangular thing you slid to activate play/record, fast forward or rewind. This looks about right:
By the late 70s I was duping my newly purchased LPs to cassette to preserve them and make them portable. I did the same thing with 8-track cartridges but that wasn't very satisfying. Track switching was annoying and they wore out even faster than cassettes.
When a CD or DVD player stops working it doesn't wreck the disc (though getting them stuck in a drawer that won't open can be a pain). When a cassette deck has problems it can kill the tape. Heck, all you have to do is leave your tapes next to a big speaker and they start to fade.
By the late 70s I was duping my newly purchased LPs to cassette to preserve them and make them portable. I did the same thing with 8-track cartridges but that wasn't very satisfying. Track switching was annoying and they wore out even faster than cassettes.
When a CD or DVD player stops working it doesn't wreck the disc (though getting them stuck in a drawer that won't open can be a pain). When a cassette deck has problems it can kill the tape. Heck, all you have to do is leave your tapes next to a big speaker and they start to fade.
famous beagle
Well-known member
Cool, I've never seen that recorder before.
That's true (about a CD player not killing the CD), but again, I never had a tape deck quit on me.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
Cool, I've never seen that recorder before.
That's true (about a CD player not killing the CD), but again, I never had a tape deck quit on me.
I've worn out several cassette decks. The last three I had were all 3-head models, and the last couple had bias fine tuning, which is essential to getting the absolute most out of the format.
Many (if not most) LPs made after 1983 are digital mastered from analog master tape (not talking about later digital studio masters).
Telefunken-Decca (Teldec) & Georg Neumann - Digital Metal Mastering (DMM).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_metal_mastering
Concerning cassettes and open reel tapes - who knows what was used. You can be sure about analog copy only in case you are yourself making it direct from master tape or fully analog LP.
Telefunken-Decca (Teldec) & Georg Neumann - Digital Metal Mastering (DMM).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_metal_mastering
Concerning cassettes and open reel tapes - who knows what was used. You can be sure about analog copy only in case you are yourself making it direct from master tape or fully analog LP.
VERY Intresting.
So it seems like the method of playing the music ("analog method") is much more appealing to people rather then the question if its "true" analog or not.
Cheers guys for an intresting thread
Over here people have been listening to "digital" for years and not realizing it. Our FM has been distributed on PCM links ("sort of" 13.5 bits iirc) for decades. TV sound was the very excellent and robust NICAM. Even the end user listening to FM, if he had a pulse counting detector (tricky to get right but lowest distortion) was getting a form of digital to analogue conversion.
Dave.
famous beagle
Well-known member
Yes, I know this is the case for me. I'm not a purist; if I were, I'd never be able to share my music online. I just enjoy the process of using tape and listening to vinyl.
I do buy a lot of old, original pressing LPs from the 60s, so I know that sometimes I'm getting an actual analog experience. But there's not really any special kind of magic in that for me. I just like listening to records and recording with tape because it's fun.
bachelorb
Cowboy Chord Virtuoso
Years ago, I bought a farm in Michigan and the owners had left an old 1960's am/fm/phono stereo console that didn't work. Well every other week, I'd move a load of equipment up from Alabama, and stay the weekend. One time, I brought up all my albums and fiddled with that console....
I don't think I have ever enjoyed "Machine Head " so much as on that snowy day... the quality was awful, but the experience was awesome!!!
I don't think I have ever enjoyed "Machine Head " so much as on that snowy day... the quality was awful, but the experience was awesome!!!
famous beagle
Well-known member
icon, I'd do it. 
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
A thought...
Perhaps it's not such a problem when music is recorded and/or mixed and/or mastered on digital then distributed in an analogue format like vinyl.
One frequent critcism of digital is that it's "too perfect". Well, perhaps producing your master with some or all digital in the chain could still give a more pleasing sound when distributed on vinyl.
(For the record, I discount cassettes on this. I've never heard anything pleasing in the cassette sound. They were convenient, allowing you to take you music in your car or when simply out and about with a Walkman--but quality was often poor and never more than adequate.)
Perhaps it's not such a problem when music is recorded and/or mixed and/or mastered on digital then distributed in an analogue format like vinyl.
One frequent critcism of digital is that it's "too perfect". Well, perhaps producing your master with some or all digital in the chain could still give a more pleasing sound when distributed on vinyl.
(For the record, I discount cassettes on this. I've never heard anything pleasing in the cassette sound. They were convenient, allowing you to take you music in your car or when simply out and about with a Walkman--but quality was often poor and never more than adequate.)
Agreed. It was convenient. That was basically all it had to offer. Only convenient game in town.
I've noticed another case of "analog=analog" occurring. Whether sourced or mixed from 'analog' is of priority or not, a studio Studer 2 track, or Otari 2" machine, running at 32ips is a very wide gulf from a cassette tape and only shares the title of 'analog' in the same way humans and paramecium share the title of 'alive'. For me, that's as far as cassette goes into 'analog'.
We learned early on that digital was by no means 'perfect' in the hands of imperfect engineers and I dismiss the moniker of "too perfect" as pedestrian commentary of what they don't/can't articulate specifically. Like all of you, I use both (and am horribly imperfect in my attempts ;-). Worse yet, sometimes what is called "digital" is no more than poor versions of .mp3 and no more represent 'digital' than a cassette truly represents 'analog'.
But unlike perhaps a few, I'll never be using cassette, again. Even after surviving the zombie apocalypse, I'll mix to at least VHS Hi-Fi or just pass until i can.
Ponder5