Bouncing Tracks Internally Fostex R2R / Mixer setup

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bigsix964

New member
Hello all,
I am having some trouble figuring out the bouncing / ping pong procedure on my Fostex Model 80 / 450 mixer setup and am hoping someone here is familiar with said gear and can help out. As a primitive example, let's say I have a click track recorded on track 8 and want to send it to 3 instead and erase 8. I should mention now that I have the mixer output connected to the deck's input via the 4 buss method, not the 8 Direct Outs. The Model 80 has channels 5-8 in parallel to 1-4, so the 4 Buss outs can still be printed to 5-8 on the tape machine by simply arming those respective tracks to record instead. I thought that I would be able to set the channel 8 input to "Tape" then assign the playback to Buss 3 and voila, the Buss 3 output should have carried the signal to Ch.3 Input on the Model 80, but this did not work. I'm showing no input signal level on Ch.3 meter of the deck. Obviously there's something I'm missing regarding the signal flow between the individual strips and the 4 groups when the input is set to tape, but I am too new to analog to figure it out on my own. Help!
 
I used to have a 450, paired with a Tascam DA88, but I'd have to see it again to remember those details.

How about patching the 80 output directly to its input for this one operation?
 
Thanks for the fast replies guys. I have the manuals for both the mixer and recorder. The one for the recorder actually specifically mentions being able to bounce from one track to another, but does not say how. Argh! I can't find any explanation online of how to do so, either. I almost sure it must be possible with my setup because the two were meant to be sold together as a pair. Given that fact, I can't imagine the mixer being unable to execute a function that the recorder is designed to do.
Regarding the second response (sorry using the phone version and can't reference your user name :( I don't think that would work at all because that would give me no control over the gain of the I/O between the channels but I could be wrong.
EDIT: This also would not give me the ability to patch more than one track together to be mixed down, which ultimately is the goal. The click example is for simplicity's sake. Also, I should clarify that in the above mentioned setup I have going, the Buss 3 meter on the mixer shows the playback from track 8 loud and clear. The problem I'm experiencing lies between the Busses and the Inputs on the tape deck.
 
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Do you have "TAPE" selected on the INPUT SELECTOR for CH 8?

Can you verify that you're getting the signal into the mixer (either by a meter or by hearing it?)

Edit: Just saw your edit about the Buss 3 meter showing the signal from track 8.
 
So, just to verify, you have the BUSS OUT jacks 1-4 from the 450 connected to the 80's INPUTs 1-4, correct?

Have you tried another Buss yet? In other words, try connecting Buss 1 OUT to the 80 Input 3 and assign the signal to Buss 1.

Wait a minute .... this may be a setting on the 80. I have an 80 by the way.

Do you have the "Input Monitor" button pushed?
 
famous beagle said:
So, just to verify, you have the BUSS OUT jacks 1-4 from the 450 connected to the 80's INPUTs 1-4, correct?

Have you tried another Buss yet? In other words, try connecting Buss 1 OUT to the 80 Input 3 and assign the signal to Buss 1.

Wait a minute .... this may be a setting on the 80. I have an 80 by the way.

Do you have the "Input Monitor" button pushed?
Click to expand...
Yes, of the two conventional ways to wire these units together, I am using the "Buss method" if you will. I have no use for recording all 8 tracks simultaneously and thus don't need to use the direct outs on the channel strips to connect to the recorder's inputs. I have not tried criss crossing the 1/3 wires but I will give it a shot. I felt I didn't need to go through the trouble, because when I plug a stereo keyboard into Channels 1&2 of the 450 and assign them to Busses 3/4 respectively to send a stereo image to tape, the meter on track 3 of the recorder shows the left channel's signal as it should. This at least tells me that the wiring between the board and recorder is operational in both directions. Thus, it's beginning to look like I'm facing a circuitry issue, whether glitch or factory I'm not sure. I suppose it's possible that the program busses of the 8 channels only send out of the Monitor and Stereo Master jacks when the input is set to "Tape" but I don't know enough about these things to say that's true or false.
Lastly, yes I am familiar with the Input Monitoring button and the Track 3 meter works perfectly when setting up a signal to record via the Buss Out.
Is it possible that I just need to grow a pair and hit Record and see what happens? If the recorder is unable to meter the input signal while in playback mode than I may be overlooking the fact that I have everything right and will simply not be able to meter the input at the recorder while "overdubbing". I've been resisting the urge to try this in fear of gnarly/damaging feedback. I'm new to the rig and analog in general, so this is all mysterious to me.
You said you have a Model 80. What have you done in the past to overcome this issue?
Again, thanks a million for all the help fellas!
 
Ok I just said a prayer and tried the experiment I mentioned in my last post. Nothing happened. Regardless of the position of the assign switch, the signal does not print to either track 1 nor 3 with the pan knob set full "odd". The only minor occurrence was that when I switched the pan knob to even, there was tremendous feedback with the switch in the 3/4 position due to the normalization of inputs 4 and 8. Still looking for an answer here... :(
 
Problem solved. I feel like a dummy but alls well that ends well...
I had made all of my previous attempts with the "Input Monitor" button depressed on the recorder, which shows only all 8 channels of input. The repro of track 8 was not being sent through the mixer for track 3 to catch while the machine was actually recording, only when I was playing it back to troubleshoot. Thanks for everyone's input. Happy recording!
 
Hey, that's great news! That makes sense.

I've not had the 80 for very long. I got about 6 or 7 months ago and tracked one song with it. But then a friend of mine gave me his Tascam 388 for free, so I put the Fostex in the closet as a backup. I do remember that the manual, although succinct and orderly, didn't go into a lot of detail with regards to some of the functions.

Glad you got it figured out! :)
 
I'm glad you got it figured out. I sold him this recorder/mixer and was hoping that there wasn't some issue with it that I wasn't aware of. Good thing you figured it finally.
 
I found this post after reading the Model 80 manual, stunned at how it has a section talking about the mixdown/ping pong-function without telling the user how it's done. That's incredibly weird.

So, am I to understand a mixer should be used? There is no mixdown or ping-pong in the tape recorder itself?

Best regards from Sweden
 
metaphysician said:
I found this post after reading the Model 80 manual, stunned at how it has a section talking about the mixdown/ping pong-function without telling the user how it's done. That's incredibly weird.

So, am I to understand a mixer should be used? There is no mixdown or ping-pong in the tape recorder itself?

Best regards from Sweden
Click to expand...

Hi and welcome to the forum.

The Fostex 80 is just a recorder --- it's not a portastudio --- and therefore it does not have an on-board mixer at all. You'll need to pair it with a mixer in order to use it, the same as you do with all tape recorders that aren't "portastudios," such as the Tascam 38 all the way up to highly revered units like the Ampex 440 or the Studer J37 (the recorder used for Sgt. Pepper's).
 
famous beagle said:
Hi and welcome to the forum.

The Fostex 80 is just a recorder --- it's not a portastudio --- and therefore it does not have an on-board mixer at all. You'll need to pair it with a mixer in order to use it, the same as you do with all tape recorders that aren't "portastudios," such as the Tascam 38 all the way up to highly revered units like the Ampex 440 or the Studer J37 (the recorder used for Sgt. Pepper's).
Click to expand...

It's just that the manual talks of it, without mentioning any other gear, which is pretty bizarre. Most people would understand that you can run, say tracks 1-6, through a mixer and record them onto track 7-8. The thing here is that the manual talks about it as function on the tape recorder, but without mentioning how it works. :)
 
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