As it happens, I've also purchased a Fostex A8LR which is a much older machine, running 1/4" tape at 7.5IPS so I'm hoping between the two machines I should be able to get the desired levels of tape saturation. For me though, it's actually more about adding a sense of 'realism' to my recordings. Of course, the analogue pre-amps and EQ from my desk achieve a lot of that, but most of my drums are MIDI created in Logic, so sending those out to a tape recorder should really make them sound much more real. The cool thing about the Fostex is that one does have 3 heads, so I could use it as a tape echo as well. It was quite a bargain (£108), but the seller says channel 1 doesn't record (it registers input signal and plays back, just doesn't record) - hopefully it'll be a relatively easy fix, but if not, I've still potentially got 7 more tracks of grit to play with!
Benefit of using Inserts as Direct Outs? (With 8 Track Tape Recorder)
- Thread starter olbean
- Start date
As it happens, I've also purchased a Fostex A8LR which is a much older machine, running 1/4" tape at 7.5IPS so I'm hoping between the two machines I should be able to get the desired levels of tape saturation. For me though, it's actually more about adding a sense of 'realism' to my recordings. Of course, the analogue pre-amps and EQ from my desk achieve a lot of that, but most of my drums are MIDI created in Logic, so sending those out to a tape recorder should really make them sound much more real. The cool thing about the Fostex is that one does have 3 heads, so I could use it as a tape echo as well. It was quite a bargain (£108), but the seller says channel 1 doesn't record (it registers input signal and plays back, just doesn't record) - hopefully it'll be a relatively easy fix, but if not, I've still potentially got 7 more tracks of grit to play with!
Not recording when obviously signal and bias are running can be a very obstinate piece of oxide in the head gap.
You sound like a bit of a 'tronics DIYer? One handy box to build is a LPF in a tin to trap out bias, then you can check signals in the record chain with a mV meter or scope.
Err? You mentioned ££s? Be you in UK? If so and you get around the Northampton area I have a very nice Wayne Kerr Radford micro V meter you can have.
Dave.
You sound like a bit of a 'tronics DIYer? One handy box to build is a LPF in a tin to trap out bias, then you can check signals in the record chain with a mV meter or scope.
Err? You mentioned ££s? Be you in UK? If so and you get around the Northampton area I have a very nice Wayne Kerr Radford micro V meter you can have.
Dave.
jpmorris
Tape Wolf
Are you sure? The basic A8 is a 2-head 15ips machine, I'd be a little surprised if the A8LR was that different, especially since the head is pretty much the most expensive part. If you do need a machine for parts, (and you are in the UK) my A8 is sitting in a box somewhere.
Ah, in which case I'll start by giving the head a ruddy good clean! I'm actually far from a 'tronics DIYer'! I like things to work when I get them, and like them to continue working for a long time. What I am however, is a perfectionist - and if something isn't working properly I sure will do my absolute best to get it working again, whether that be doing it myself, asking for help on a forum or getting a friend or technician to do it for me!
That's funny, I am indeed in the UK and the Fostex deck I picked up was in Northampton! That's very kind of you to offer me your VU metre, although I wouldn't have a clue what to do with it or what I'd be checking!
Going off on a bit of a tangent, but crazy situation you might be interested in - the rubber around the pinch wheel on the Fostex looked a little bit sticky, so went to clean off whatever it was with some isopropyl. I soon realised (after my finger made an indentation) that the entire rubber tyre had the consistency of gooey tar and I was literally squashing it down to nothing in my fingers. After around 40 minutes of removing the gooey mess from my hands with cellulose thinner, I was able to use my phone and source a replacement rubber tyre for £16 (bit of a ripoff for a little piece of rubber!) Absolutely fascinating that something which was once firm rubber could turn into something so malleable - although I now highly doubt the seller's claim that it was recently used on a band's LP and worked perfectly. I am pretty confident that if any tape had come into contact with that roller, it would've totally destroyed the tape, not to mention the other issues it would've caused! After doing some research, i've discovered that it's actually quite common, and due to some rubber parts being outsourced from overseas and the manufacturers didn't properly cure the rubber!
That's funny, I am indeed in the UK and the Fostex deck I picked up was in Northampton! That's very kind of you to offer me your VU metre, although I wouldn't have a clue what to do with it or what I'd be checking!
Going off on a bit of a tangent, but crazy situation you might be interested in - the rubber around the pinch wheel on the Fostex looked a little bit sticky, so went to clean off whatever it was with some isopropyl. I soon realised (after my finger made an indentation) that the entire rubber tyre had the consistency of gooey tar and I was literally squashing it down to nothing in my fingers. After around 40 minutes of removing the gooey mess from my hands with cellulose thinner, I was able to use my phone and source a replacement rubber tyre for £16 (bit of a ripoff for a little piece of rubber!) Absolutely fascinating that something which was once firm rubber could turn into something so malleable - although I now highly doubt the seller's claim that it was recently used on a band's LP and worked perfectly. I am pretty confident that if any tape had come into contact with that roller, it would've totally destroyed the tape, not to mention the other issues it would've caused! After doing some research, i've discovered that it's actually quite common, and due to some rubber parts being outsourced from overseas and the manufacturers didn't properly cure the rubber!
You know what, you're right. The eBay listing for the A8LR stated that it was a 7.5IPS machine and I stupidly just took their word for it. As for the heads, I think you're right about that as well... I'd been looking at some photos of an A8 and noticed it has some input switches to change between input & tape - I assumed this meant you could monitor the tape while recording? Regardless, since looking at some photos of the A8LR, I can see that those monitor switches have actually been replaced with buttons to arm 5-8 independently!
http://ukhhsoc.torrens.org/makers/R...AudioNoisemeter_leaflet_001_Jun_79/Page1.jpeg
Not a VU meter ^ Full blown AC microvolt meter with weighting filters. I was given it but no longer have a use. Ideal for tape machine work.
Oh! BTW NEVER attack pinch rollers with anything but de-ionized water or spit if desperate. For a very badly glazed one a bit of Fairy Liquid is ok.
Dave.
Not a VU meter ^ Full blown AC microvolt meter with weighting filters. I was given it but no longer have a use. Ideal for tape machine work.
Oh! BTW NEVER attack pinch rollers with anything but de-ionized water or spit if desperate. For a very badly glazed one a bit of Fairy Liquid is ok.
Dave.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
I switched from direct out to inserts as direct outs when I made the jump from digital tape to DAW. Since I had no automation it was helpful to build in some track end fades and ride a vocal take while it went to tape. Those things saved me time and effort in mixing. When I made the switch to DAW it was more advantageous to track without fader moves. The signal now takes a slightly shorter path from the mixer preamp to the interface than it would with the direct outs.
Just found the manual for the A8LR and it would seem there were two versions! So I have got the 7.5IPS model - still only 2 heads though. Bummer.
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
No
Running a signal to/from a 2 head deck will not give you off-tape saturation, or any tape effects in real time. It is simply running the signal to the input op amps, thru to the output op amps, and therefore is a wasted loop in the signal chain with added components.
The reason you'd want a mixer and a tape deck like this is to record directly to tape.
Any tape saturation or tape artifcacts would be derived in playback mode only, after the original signal is printed to tape. It must be recorded first, rewound and played back.
Running a signal to/from a 2 head deck will not give you off-tape saturation, or any tape effects in real time. It is simply running the signal to the input op amps, thru to the output op amps, and therefore is a wasted loop in the signal chain with added components.
The reason you'd want a mixer and a tape deck like this is to record directly to tape.
Any tape saturation or tape artifcacts would be derived in playback mode only, after the original signal is printed to tape. It must be recorded first, rewound and played back.
Running a signal to/from a 2 head deck will not give you off-tape saturation, or any tape effects in real time. It is simply running the signal to the input op amps, thru to the output op amps, and therefore is a wasted loop in the signal chain with added components.
The reason you'd want a mixer and a tape deck like this is to record directly to tape.
Any tape saturation or tape artifcacts would be derived in playback mode only, after the original signal is printed to tape. It must be recorded first, rewound and played back.
Yep, fully aware of that. Plan is to record to tape (and record a clean version straight into Logic), then record the tape playback into Logic.
Do not like the term "saturation" when applied to tape, valves, transistors or transformers since it implies a total ceasing of all parameters i.e. zero gain and in the case of transformers, blown fuses! But I freely admit it to be a lost cause like that mathematical absurdity "rms" watts so I shall whinge no more!
But! There is a huge number of variables in producing a tape "Mildly Distorted Sound" shall we say (catchy huh?) . If you are trying to emulate the early Beatles stuff e.g. then you don't have the same machines, same tape formulation (all sticky dust now?) no idea how it was biased, the levels used and you are probably using a different recording EQ! (CCIR & NAB were a problem when I was using tape).
The bottom line here is that it is probably AS economic to buy tape hard or software emulation? Bloody sight less hassle!
Dave.
Just thought I’d post a quick update that I’ve got both machines up and running and i’m getting exactly the results I wanted. I’ve recorded some jams direct to tape and the sounds are so inspiring. Not only is the process much more involved and enjoyable (actually having to think about where I want to route things instead of Logic doing it all for me) but it’s so much more rewarding this way and these vintage vibes definitely can’t be recreated digitally. I think both machines are going to become pretty good friends of mine!
Thanks for all your help and suggestions
Thanks for all your help and suggestions