Analog Session! Noise Reduction Question

H

HomesickAlien

New member
A little background... I'm recording my friends quartet - upright bass, acoustic guitar, mandolin & violin...

I'm going to be recording to my Tascam 34B through a Soundcraft 200 (8/4/2)
We plan on renting a U 87 to use as a room mic and then close mic every instrument as well.. (they will be playing as a band in one room...)

I recently snagged the mixer and got a deal on a Tascam DX-4D noise reduction unit..
After reading the manual (for the 34B) I understand how to hook it up and that I am supposed to get my levels with the unit on BYPASS...
But when I record I am obviously going to turn it on right? I know it sounds dumb but I haven't tested it out yet and was wondering if anyone has any tricks up their sleeve or experiences they would like to share...

Also an even bigger question - should I even use the noise reduction unit? I've been reading that in some instances it may be better to keep it out of the chain so the machine can hit the tape harder... The band is going to play 3 songs and do 2 passes of the songs so I will be able to record once with the unit on and once with the unit disengaged but again, I'd like to hear any input that anyone is willing to throw into the ring....
Any other rants or comments are more than welcome...
 
actually... damn am i ever new at this... how would i even use the noise reduction unit with my mixer/tape machine...

34b.jpg Tascam 34b

nr.jpg Noise reduction unit

mixer.jpg soundcraft 200

.. did i just screw myself? hah..

I could use a tascam LA 40 if I could ever find one i guess but shit.... anyone?
am i just going to have to buy a whole bunch of XLR to rca adapters?
 
Ok, so I think I can just run the aux outs to the unit instead of using the XLR group outputs... makes a bit more sense going from 1/4" to rca obviously.
 
How is the tape deck currently connected to the mixer? Whether the NR unit is there or not, you'll still have to go from the deck's RCA outs to the mixer using some kind of RCA-jack cable.

I've not used the NR modules before (though have a pair...) but I think it's encode-in to tape deck out,encode-out to tape deck in, and the input and output sockets are wired up just as you'd usually wire the tape deck if the NR unit was not there.

I do notice that the 34 seems to have dedicated mic inputs, you probably won't be able to use those.

EDIT:
What is with the sticker over the NR control socket on the deck? If the control socket is missing, the NR unit isn't going to work unless it's been modded.
 
jpmorris said:
How is the tape deck currently connected to the mixer? Whether the NR unit is there or not, you'll still have to go from the deck's RCA outs to the mixer using some kind of RCA-jack cable.

I've not used the NR modules before (though have a pair...) but I think it's encode-in to tape deck out,encode-out to tape deck in, and the input and output sockets are wired up just as you'd usually wire the tape deck if the NR unit was not there.

I do notice that the 34 seems to have dedicated mic inputs, you probably won't be able to use those.

EDIT:
What is with the sticker over the NR control socket on the deck? If the control socket is missing, the NR unit isn't going to work unless it's been modded.
Click to expand...

The sticker just says "READ MANUAL BEFORE CONNECTING".. the socket is still there. Luckily for me my partner wasn't able to pick up the NR unit and the mixer from the seller yesterday. This was all hypothetical.. But upon further reading I think I'm just going to ditch the NR unit and run straight from the mixer.. I was planning on sending each group from the mixer into the mic inputs and then using rca to 1/4" to plug into the returns... By the way, going straight into the mic inputs would result in a better sound then going through the RCAs, correct?

Anyways since I am still speaking hypothetically and haven't purchased the mixer yet, does anyone viewing this thread have an opinion/experience with the Soundcraft 200 8/4/2 board? (and yes, I've tried searching but didn't really get much out of it expect for the fact that I think it's worth the risk - might be a cool, warm unit)
 
...

Even with the 20db pad on the Mic inputs, I don't think they will be a proper level or impedance match to a mixer's Line Outputs. Also, I don't see a verified reference to the operating level of the Line Outs on the mixer. Would at least give a clearer picture. I believe if the Soundcraft line level is -10dbV it will interface properly with the 34B's Line In/Outs, simply with some XLR-RCA adapters or conversion cables. Either way, you'll have to go from balanced to unbalanced line to get it done.

As for what to use vs the Soundcraft 8/4/2 mixer, I'd suggest a properly matched Tascam recording mixer, such as the M30, M300 Series, M200 Series, etc. These mixers will all have RCA Line In/Outs and -10dbV line level, not to mention being great mixers that are optimized for your proposed recorder.

:spank::eek:;)
 
Personally, I would avoid using the noise reduction unit altogether. Unless tweaked properly (and some people say even when set up correctly), they will add (in my opinion, an unpleasant) coloration to the sound. A little tape hiss never hurt anyone.

An NR unit messes with the signal in a big way. Noise is just background hiss. Pick your poison!
 
A Reel Person said:
Even with the 20db pad on the Mic inputs, I don't think they will be a proper level or impedance match to a mixer's Line Outputs. Also, I don't see a verified reference to the operating level of the Line Outs on the mixer. Would at least give a clearer picture. I believe if the Soundcraft line level is -10dbV it will interface properly with the 34B's Line In/Outs, simply with some XLR-RCA adapters or conversion cables. Either way, you'll have to go from balanced to unbalanced line to get it done.

As for what to use vs the Soundcraft 8/4/2 mixer, I'd suggest a properly matched Tascam recording mixer, such as the M30, M300 Series, M200 Series, etc. These mixers will all have RCA Line In/Outs and -10dbV line level, not to mention being great mixers that are optimized for your proposed recorder.

:spank::eek:;)
Click to expand...


"The Series 200 is normally supplied to be compatible with standard professional equipment. ie. +4 dBm (ref. 0.775 volt). It says I can add resistors to allow it to operate with semi-professional tape machines which operate at -10 dBv (ref. 1.0 volt)..

I don't know too much about this stuff unfortunately... What happens if I go ahead and use the equipment even without doing the mod and the impedance's don't match?
 
No, that is not correct at all. I don't know where you read that.

Series 200 mixers:
There are 2-parallel RCA outputs for each PGM buss, 1-4, Unbalanced, with a nominal output level of -10dBV (0.316v), which is ideally matched to recorders such as the 34B, (32, 34, 38, 234, 238, etc.) line level inputs.

There is 1 additional XLR output for each PGM buss, 1-4, Unbalanced, with a nominal output level of 0dBu (0.8V). Notice here the XLR PGM outputs are UNbalanced. Not sure what that's used for, but it's there if you need it. Sometimes you have to think in terms of 1980s design to understand these products.
See: http://www.tascamvintage.com/M208M216Service.pdf

Here is a wealth of info for your reading pleasure: Tascam Manuals
:spank::eek:;)
 
Last edited:
As to your second question,...

A level and impedance mismatch would produce troublesome level controls and unwanted noise, and in extreme cases damage to the equipment.
:spank::eek:;)
 
Oops shouldve mentioned that

A Reel Person said:
Series 200 mixers:
There are 2-parallel RCA outputs for each PGM buss, 1-4, Unbalanced, with a nominal output level of -10dBV (0.316v), which is ideally matched to recorders such as the 34B, (32, 34, 38, 234, 238, etc.) line level inputs.

There is 1 additional XLR output for each PGM buss, 1-4, Unbalanced, with a nominal output level of 0dBu (0.8V). Notice here the XLR PGM outputs are UNbalanced. Not sure what that's used for, but it's there if you need it. Sometimes you have to think in terms of 1980s design to understand these products.
See: http://www.tascamvintage.com/M208M216Service.pdf
Click to expand...

My bad, I should've mentioned that I was quoting the Soundcraft 200 Series manual.
I tested it out even though I probably shouldn't have and what happens is that the signal going to the tape machine through the 1/4 jacks is really hot and the RCA connectors don't even receive a signal.. When I send the signal back through the returns after recording through the 1/4 jacks the signal coming out of the mixer is really low. Guess sometimes you gotta learn the hard way. Oh well, still recorded the session, just straight to the deck through some art preamps and the tracks sound nice...
 
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