Ampex AG-440B-8 Story...

Good point...let's see if I can work through that thought whilst away from the machine...

I can't run tape on it at the moment, and actually it may be dangerous to run tape on it at all at the moment...no pinch roller yet (I have almost all the parts though)...have to see if that matters in fast wind modes, but that may be inconsequential:

When a reel is placed on the takeup table and I put the deck in EDIT mode and give 'er a spin the reel flanges undulate about 1/4" up and down at their edge. Now I know I'm picky about getting all the eccentricities out of my reel tables, but that's a bit much, and I can see the table itself undulating a corresponding amount, and IMO there is no way the hub and table could be installed in such a way as to allow that kind of wobble...I'm 99% sure the shafts are bent, but I will be testing the runout with a dial indicator before I do anything. For those that don't know, a dial indicator is a cool little device with plunger connected to a guage. Push on the plunger and the dial measures how far the plunger traveled. In this way you can rest the plunger on a rotating shaft, spin it and see (within 0.001" accuracy) how much the shaft wobbles. You put the plunger in different spots along the length of the shaft so you can tell where the bend occurs and then lever at that point.

I've gotten some really good advice specific to the 440 on straightening the shafts over at the Ampex List.

Thanks for the pause, Daniel. Good food for thought and I will proceed cautiously
 
A Sample Of How It Might "Clean Up"...

Just for fun I took the "Pushbutton Escutcheon" (the plate that goes around the transport buttons) and cleaned it up to get sample of how the rest of the cleanup might go as I get to that.

Simply sanded the face of the escutcheon and then used window cleaner, a toothbrush and a little piece of old ScotchBrite pad to clean it up...found neat little automotive touch-up paint vials at Wal-Mart. They've got lots of colors but basics too. I bought black. :D It comes with a little integrated brush. I found that if I lightly touched the spots that were chipped, let it dry and then lightly scuffed the new glossy spot could get it to totally blend in with the eggshell sheen of the original surrounding paint.

The pictures, before and after don't do it justice. It was really yucky before, and is really nice now. As an aside I tested a little spot using my TR-3 auto finish cleaner/polish/protectant (which has become a real favorite for me in cleaning up all sorts of stuff) on the stainless dress panel of the parts 440...wow...that's going to look nice.

Anyway, here's the before and after shots of the escutcheon:


Before:
Pushbutton%20Escutcheon%2c%20Before.JPG



After:
Pushbutton%20Escutcheon%2c%20After.JPG
 
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They smell...

I meant to comment on this some time ago. I noticed right away when I picked up the 440-8 the distinct aroma...not bad, but very "old machine" smell...old lubricants or something. Anyway, seriously, its kind of intimidating in a way when matched with the size of everything.

Thought it might be just my 440.

The whole repair area smells like that now.

Then when I went to pick up the parts 440 I noticed that within minutes of loading it in the car smelled the same. So its not just mine...its just the 440, and I suppose likely lots of gear like this of that vintage, but its new to me having only owned Teac/Tascam decks from early 80's vintage and up.

Okay. Whatever. Now I don't have to think about putting this up anymore, and you can start wondering why I did...
 
I picked up the transport for my 440 today and made the mistake of rubbing my mouth shortly after... pretty good stuff.
 
Several of my recorders have a distinct "vintage" smell, especially when they've been on for a while. I kinda dig it though. Kinda like a sweet smell of glue or lubricants or something, as Cory pointed out. It's especially so on my TEAC A-3440 but also the TASCAM 48-OB somewhat. It's just part of the experience me thinks. :eek::D
 
sweetbeats said:
The 440-8 smells like a machine shop! :D
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No matter what people may think about the new car smell, I have never owned any new car that smelled a good as a room full of new Tascam equipment. And even 30 years later most of it still has that smell. Ahhh . . chemicals !
 
Yeah, there's something particularly attractive about vintage VOC's (Volatile Organic Compounds).:D
 
Just picking away at the 440 here and there...sort of a therapeutic wayside I guess to prepping my M-520 for sale...

Totally disassembled/cleaned/lubed one of the reel clampers. I should have taken pictures of the parts when disassembled...an engineering work of art AFAIC...This deck has seen some hours and the moving parts of the assembly show almost no wear...so overbuilt. I didn't weigh it either. Thought about doing that but take my word for it: it is a solid chunk of metal. All the cast parts are so nicely done. There is a real difference between how things used to be manufactured. Both reel clampers were frozen from dirt buildup and hardening of lubricants...not uncommon I guess and the typical fix is to spray lube into it and work it loose. You know me...had to take it all apart and clean it all up, but it is interesting to me to see how it works and it builds my appreciation as well. The clean one now operates really slick. Here is a picture of the cleaned one in the foreground and the as of yet untouched one in the background:


Reel%20Clamper%20Clean.JPG



Also picked up a used 1" EditAll splicing block. I haven't cleaned it up yet but it needs little. Its in pretty good shape. $22 shipped. :)

Splicing%20Block.JPG



Got a dial indicator and magnetic stand for it at Harbor Freight for about $20 in preparation for straightening the reel motor shafts...not Starrett quality but it'll do the job...its actually not bad. Tried it out on the capstan shaft which, much to my relief, spins true. I will have to address the alignment of the capstan motor though. The way it is done is there are heavy-duty spring washers (similar to split lock washers) between the motor housing and the transport plate. Four screws hold the motor to the plate, and then there is a procedure for adjusting the mounting screws in pairs as you watch the tape behavior in the guides and through the pinch roller. The problem as I see it is that that basically leaves the capstan motor floating on spring washers. This may work quite well for the 1/4" and 1/2" 440's, but there are a number of things about the 1" 440 that were never quite up to the engineering standards of the 1/4" and 1/2" decks...as I understand it, Larry Miller, who was the project manager for the 440 at Ampex, did not like the 440-8. It was never designed to be a 1" transport. In my opinion, because of the over-engineering ideology that Ampex employed, it is a hearty deck, but there are certain things that get called into question because they weren't designed from the ground up for handling 1" tape. SO...I can easily wiggle the capstan motor by 0.001" ~ 0.002" measured at the tip of the capstan shaft and I'm assuming that is because it is floating. Maybe that will have no ill effect but my instinct says I want that capstan motor firmly fastened to the transport plate, so I'm going to track down some shim washers and set up the capstan motor that way. It'll take more time (observe behavior, unmount motor, install washers, remount and back to step 1 until it runs right), but once it is setup it'll be setup.

Pulled one of the reel motors out to start looking into the bent shaft issue and it looks like the bend is all the way down to the nose bearing or thereabouts. That is actually good AFAIC as the bearing provides a built-in place where the shaft is being firmly held straight, and my job will be to lever the shaft then as close to the nose bearing as I can.

Got some other needed parts to finish what's needed for the pinch roller assembly and some stuff that was missing from one of the electronics modules.
 
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Just found this thread. I restored my AG440C-8 in 2005. What a wonderful machine! I also had a bent motor shaft. I ended up getting a replacement motor. Any 440 motor will work. You just need to swap out the reel hold-down.

Steve
 
Steve, I was told that the reel motors are different...that they were beefed up for the 1" transport...so is that not correct? Are the brakes different? I have a 440 1/4" ~ 1/2" parts transport in the shop too so I can compare motors and related assemblies but I thought the windings were different or something...or is it just that the 1" transport has the power boost? :confused:

Got any pics of your 440C-8 you can put up? :p

Sheesh...if the motors are the same that will really simplify the motor shaft issue because I'll just swap them out...they all need new bearings but I found a source that has them for under $1 each...better than the eBay auction I saw that is listing 2 used bearings for $20 + S&H! :eek::mad: And of course it takes just a few minutes to pull a motor on these things. :cool:
 
Man, if this is true then this will indeed simplify resurrecting the motors. Keeping my fingers crossed.
 
I'm pretty sure that's why people don't like this machine for moving 1" reels. It's asking a lot of the reel motors. On mine the supply motor had a bent shaft. I was lucky and found a broadcast supply place that had a NOS supply motor for a 1/4" AG440. I swapped the hold down and cork piece from mine and was back in business. The motors are the same for all 440 models (at least they are for the "c" machines). The part numbers on both the old and new motor matched. Check the connector wiring. If I remember right I had to use my old connector.

The brake bands are asbestos lined and probably also used on all the 440's. You need to get practiced at the Ampex toggle between rew and fast forw to slow it down to a stop once it's been spinning fast. It's a fairly crude transport but it's never givin me grief once I went through it and brought it back to top condition. I altered the record cards on mine so I could align to CCIR which is a better sounding standard than NAB.

There's a certain tantalum capacitor on the record cards that should be replaced with an electrolytic if you haven't done so yet. I don't know which one it is off hand but the Ampex list guys will. It's a low voltage rated cap that if it dies will short circuit and potentially fry the record head. For some reason tants fail as shorts while electrolytics fail as open circuits (at least in general they do). I did have an electrolytic fail as a short in my Studer once though.

Anyway, I'll look for some pics of mine.

Steve
 
I went and dug my old motor out and confirmed that the part number on the motor matches the new motor for the 1/4" machine. The brake system is also the same for both. To get 1" hold downs on you'll need to cut the new motor's spindle to about 3/8". You'll see once you remove the hold down from the bad motor. Once the spindle is cut to size and the cork removed you can install the 1" hold down and re-glue the old cork.

Here's some shots of mine:

http://www.pacinfo.com/~sholst/ampex1.jpg
http://www.pacinfo.com/~sholst/ampex2.jpg
http://www.pacinfo.com/~sholst/ampex3.jpg
http://www.pacinfo.com/~sholst/ampex4.jpg

Steve
 
Yeah...there has been a lot of bellyaching about the 440-8...it doesn't help that Larry Miller, the project manager for the 440 at the time at Ampex refers to the 8-track as "the ugliness that is the 440-8". The 8-track was developed after he left and he was never fond of the idea for the reasons mentioned...I have to contest tho that, IMO, standards were different than today. Crude transport? Hm...if non-servo means crude then yes I agree but there was so much science behind what guides were used and where, and the headblock and flutter filter still hold their own today IMHO...spec-wise the 440-8 has better flutter specs than my Tascam 58-OB...I don't do a lot of punch ins so I 'm not worried about that issue and I've heard about shuttling the transport to a near stop when fast-winding...yeah...that's crude, but loveable. :)

That tant cap is C32...the uggest replacement with a 22uF 50V cap...that and there is also a 'lytic behind the card cage...haven't gotten to that yet. You're right about C32...in the off chance it goes it will take out the record head. Crazy huh? I'm also going to replace the large 'lytic can in each PSU (2400uF 100V) and there are two caps in the control box too.

Well, I'm going to pull the motors off of my parts 440 then and check the runout on the shafts...that is really sweet...total boon. Thanks for the info. Can't check the pics you posted yet but I will. This is great.

BTW I'm active over on the Ampex List and have found a couple gentleman who are willing to mentor me on the 440 here and there. Dave Dintenfass is one of them from Full-Track productions. He has been a tremendous help.
 
Steve,

That is a beautiful machine ya got there.

DC servo capstan yes? And...:eek:...you've got the rare optional second flutter filter between the erase and record heads there. Sweet machine.

So you like how it sounds?
 
Most of those guys on the Ampex list are very, very helpful and giving of their expertise. A great resource for sure.

I think the 440-8 is beautiful! It sounds beautiful too. It has a spacious, huge depth of image that I absolutely love. Mine has DC servo and runs 15/30 ips. I don't run at 30 because I can't afford the tape costs. I replaced every electrolytic in the machine and cleaned and lubricated everything that moves. Not one lick of trouble since then. JRF did the head work and told me I have 75% head life left. Pretty good for a machine built in 1975.

By crude I guess I mean: lack of counter, no RTZ, funky shuttling (also agree it's somewhat charming), difficult punch ins. It specs really well and aligns very well too. Funny to think that in 1968 when it was introduced it cost something like $14000. You probably could have bought a house for that back then.

Where are you at in the Northwest? I'm in Oregon.

Steve
 
You are a brave man...
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Huh? Me or him? :???:

Steve...okay...we are on the same page as far as the transport. Don't know if you read earlier in thread but I had a laugh-out-loud moment when I realized there wasn't even a counter...talk about getting back to basics, but there is a real allure to that for me personally.

I figure I will eventually get around to replacing all the electrolytic capacitors, but for the time being I'm focusing on those most critical ones as advised by the folks at the Ampex List...It sounds like you have a really fine machine. You may have read I got a hold of a full nearly unused 'C' headblock and matching repro cards. The complete usage history is known and the block was used for two projects and that's it...John French gave his blessing on the assembly being in as-new condition. I'm excited.

I also plan on changing the electronics from NAB to CCIR eq...I haven't looked into the particulars on this yet though I know it involves some simple component swaps on the eq daughter boards...do you have any handy resources on what to change with what?

Mine has the AC capstan motor so I'm running 7.5/15...and I'm not looking to change it to servo. I don't know what the change to 30ips does to the frequency of the head bump or the LF knee point but I figure I'll be happy at 15ips anyway. ;)

Yeah...the cost...I did a rough calculation of what it would cost new in today's dollars and I came up with about $70,000.
 
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