Ampex AG-440B-8 Story...
- Thread starter sweetbeats
- Start date
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Made a 30" loop of tape yesterday and looped it between the capstan shaft and the new pinch roller held between my thumb and forefinger. then I timed how long it took for the loop to make it around once. 2 seconds. The machine is set at 7.5/15ips and I plan on leaving it there. Can't see a reason to go with 30ips unless I want to reduce record time. Not sure what that will do to the response curve either. I imagine it depends on the performance of the heads in the condition I get them to but I know it shifts the response curve up an octave which can take a head bump and put it in a nasty spot and take the LF knee point to a bad spot too...suppose its not as much of a concern with the 1" 8-track format (LF knee is typically lower) but no sense messing with it unless I'm not happy with how it ends up sounding at 15ips and I can get a reasonably good plot of the response and then project what might happen to it at 30ips and see if I think that will address what I don't like right?
Blahblahblah.
"Bessie" has become tempermental. During my testing yesterday the capstan would no longer shut off when the right tension arm was released nor would the takeup motor stop after being engaged (in any transport mode)...noticed that it would slowly reduce speed when the transport was stopped and that's what clued me in that it was a stuck brake...tapped on the brake solenoid and got that to work but who knows why the capstan no longer shuts off...dirty switch probably. Anyway, its a project right?
But I must say without the brake engaging on the takup motor that thing would spin for minutes...hurky.
Blahblahblah.
"Bessie" has become tempermental. During my testing yesterday the capstan would no longer shut off when the right tension arm was released nor would the takeup motor stop after being engaged (in any transport mode)...noticed that it would slowly reduce speed when the transport was stopped and that's what clued me in that it was a stuck brake...tapped on the brake solenoid and got that to work but who knows why the capstan no longer shuts off...dirty switch probably. Anyway, its a project right?
But I must say without the brake engaging on the takup motor that thing would spin for minutes...hurky.
technoplayer
Recovering Gear-aholic
Stop messing with the Ampex and finish the M-xxx console!!!!!
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Heeheehee...
I'm getting there. Actually took a sidestep to prep my 48-OB for sale, and last night finished completely tearing down my parts 48...my priority is actually on getting rid of some stuff right now...had an assisted epiphany regarding gear acquisition and I'm enjoying simplifying, BUT...the M-___ will certainly not be among the items I am letting go, and the caps needed to finish recapping the master section just arrived late last week. I've got about 50 items to put up on eBay from the parts 48 and once those are rolling I'll be putting those caps in and start reassembling the master section.
The AG-440-8 is in the same space where I'm tearing down the parts 48...hard not to reach over, turn it on, lift the tesnion arm and push a transport button...
...and then its hard not to measure out a 30" loop of the 1" tape that's sitting right there and grab the pinch roller and answer the burning "what speed is it setup for" question, andthenandthenandthen...
But that's all I did. Yup.
I'm getting there. Actually took a sidestep to prep my 48-OB for sale, and last night finished completely tearing down my parts 48...my priority is actually on getting rid of some stuff right now...had an assisted epiphany regarding gear acquisition and I'm enjoying simplifying, BUT...the M-___ will certainly not be among the items I am letting go, and the caps needed to finish recapping the master section just arrived late last week. I've got about 50 items to put up on eBay from the parts 48 and once those are rolling I'll be putting those caps in and start reassembling the master section.
The AG-440-8 is in the same space where I'm tearing down the parts 48...hard not to reach over, turn it on, lift the tesnion arm and push a transport button...
...and then its hard not to measure out a 30" loop of the 1" tape that's sitting right there and grab the pinch roller and answer the burning "what speed is it setup for" question, andthenandthenandthen...But that's all I did. Yup.
technoplayer
Recovering Gear-aholic
Assisted epiphany????
I was wondering when your wife was going to intervene in your gear addiction!!
BTW...how are the capstan motor bearings sounding on the Ampex? I need to Re-bearing mine (rumble rumble) and I figure if you're going to do yours, I'll wait for one of your excellent step-by-step pictorials and tutorials to follow.
No pressure here........
I was wondering when your wife was going to intervene in your gear addiction!!
BTW...how are the capstan motor bearings sounding on the Ampex? I need to Re-bearing mine (rumble rumble) and I figure if you're going to do yours, I'll wait for one of your excellent step-by-step pictorials and tutorials to follow.
No pressure here........
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Actually my wife isn't the one...I had kind of a holy epiphany when the auction on the 440 closed..."What am I doing??"...and from there talked to a good friend about it and started making changes right then and there...that opened my eyes to what I'd been neglecting with regard to my family which led to really good discussions on the homefront...the kind where I am actually listening. Don't mean to get all mushy on the forum but my wife's name needs to be clear. She has endured a lot...a lot that I didn't see or didn't want to see. And if it is any testament to her nature then remember that, in spite of her struggles she has gladly helped unload/move my M-520, the M-___, the 48, the 58, and now the 440. Knowing what I know now makes her all the more incredible.
The other reality is that I was overwhelmed...frustrated perfectionist...can't get anything well accomplished as a parent with 4 kids and a busy job, so I tend to take on more projects in hope that I can finish something...totally backwards but that's the way my brain has been working so it feels really good to simplify, focus, and hopefully get back to doing music and recording, especially my boys.
I know it wasn't a dig, techno, but its the biggest subject in my life right now.
Thanks all for enduring the rabble.
Knowing what I know now makes her all the more incredible.The other reality is that I was overwhelmed...frustrated perfectionist...can't get anything well accomplished as a parent with 4 kids and a busy job, so I tend to take on more projects in hope that I can finish something...totally backwards but that's the way my brain has been working so it feels really good to simplify, focus, and hopefully get back to doing music and recording, especially my boys.
I know it wasn't a dig, techno, but its the biggest subject in my life right now.
Thanks all for enduring the rabble.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Techno, the capstan motor bearings...yeah, they're not rumbley per se, but kinda "whirrey" if that makes sense. They sound dry.
When I get around to this I'll certainly be putting up detail.
Nice of Ampex to put the bearing dims and specs in the manual.
When I get around to this I'll certainly be putting up detail.
Nice of Ampex to put the bearing dims and specs in the manual.
technoplayer
Recovering Gear-aholic
No offense meant of course. We all have struggles sometimes to maintain the balance in our lives, and sometimes the passion of a new project temporarily sidetracks us from what is really important. I recall you saying that you took your 10 year old son on the road trip to pick up the M-xxx, which gave you guys plenty of road time together. May not seem important to you now. but I bet it is something he will remember forever.
>>> get your kids involved in everything you do. Video games are fun, but teaching them how to sand/ spraypaint/ solder/ work with tools/ etc will be a gift to them that they will always treasure. i know these are some of the gifts I got from my dad that were important to me thru life.
Its just a matter of balance.......
>>> get your kids involved in everything you do. Video games are fun, but teaching them how to sand/ spraypaint/ solder/ work with tools/ etc will be a gift to them that they will always treasure. i know these are some of the gifts I got from my dad that were important to me thru life.
Its just a matter of balance.......
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
You got it...
At least once a week when my oldest son and I get in the car together he'll say something like "where we off to today dad? Canada?"
You're right. He will remember it. It is one of the bright moments in my gear addiction. I try to involve my kids and I want to do more. It is part of that balance. If I'm trying to tackle 500 projects at a time there's no room, but taking a small project at a comfy pace leaves room and then they get to see the finished product whether it is a repair or building a kit...
Yep...I'm learning.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Coming together...
Thanks to Steve Puntolillo at Sonicraft I now have on-hand a bevy of critical tape path components previously lacking.
Steve actually had available a complete 'C' version 440-8 headblock as well as the repro cards to go with it (the 'C' version I've learned had better quality heads...triple the laminations and the repro cards were updated to match this evolution). He even had the hard-to-find scrape flutter filter. All these things together were a chunk of change but Steve was very reasonable with the price and helpful to boot. A top-notch individual to be sure. It was the way to go since some of the parts needed are very rare. Time and expense in hunting would likely have cost more than I spent and I'm ahead in the potential quality with the 'C' assembly. Win-win.
Here is the flutter filter:
Here are the repro cards:
Here is the headblock:
And here is what the innards of the block look like from underneath:
And now back to the front of the block with the gate open:
Left and right guides now...looking virtually new:
Erase head:
Record head:
And reproduce head:
Thanks to some other wonderful folks over on the Ampex List I am nearly done searching for missing parts.
Thanks to Steve Puntolillo at Sonicraft I now have on-hand a bevy of critical tape path components previously lacking.
Steve actually had available a complete 'C' version 440-8 headblock as well as the repro cards to go with it (the 'C' version I've learned had better quality heads...triple the laminations and the repro cards were updated to match this evolution). He even had the hard-to-find scrape flutter filter. All these things together were a chunk of change but Steve was very reasonable with the price and helpful to boot. A top-notch individual to be sure. It was the way to go since some of the parts needed are very rare. Time and expense in hunting would likely have cost more than I spent and I'm ahead in the potential quality with the 'C' assembly. Win-win.
Here is the flutter filter:
Here are the repro cards:
Here is the headblock:
And here is what the innards of the block look like from underneath:
And now back to the front of the block with the gate open:
Left and right guides now...looking virtually new:
Erase head:
Record head:
And reproduce head:
Thanks to some other wonderful folks over on the Ampex List I am nearly done searching for missing parts.
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sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Yeah...its just very chunky and simple. I'm feeling more comfortable around it now...understanding what is what and why...its so different from the Tascam decks with which I'm accustomed and there has definitely been an acclimation period but I'm coming out of it.
Spent $60 today for a collection of spare parts...from a sheer poundage standpoint I only need a fraction of the purchase, but there really are a bunch of parts in this collection that are needed. It was well worth the $60, and that might get me a spare little part or two in the future if needed...the seller has quite the collection of vintage parts and gear.
So anyway, the $60 brought home a partially stripped AG-440-2 (B series I believe...) in a custom console, a stripped B electronics module, 2 repro cards and 3 record cards.
Console: nice unit...have no idea what to use this for so its holding up a box for now, but it is custom-built for the 440 transport...seller said it was made in Portland by a broadcast equipment company.
Transport Front: like I said, partially stripped, but basically everything is there except the headblock, power cord and remote dummy plug (has to be inserted in the remote jack in order for the transport to operate in absence of the remote).
Transport back: actually pretty clean here. This transport has a number of tape path parts that will help me out with some damaged items on mine. Plus it offers spare connectors and cabling, the reel idler flywheel (mine is missing the original viscous-damped flywheel...this basic flywheel will do the trick just fine though until I locate an original unit), a spare power supply...blahblahblah. But this is the first time I have been able to get a real good look at the back of the transport. Chunky...the brakes have two solenoids each, and as far as I can tell without being able to really observe operation from this view it looks like one pushes and one pulls...makes for quick and strong action.
Spare Cards: here are the 5 spare cards. Some of my faceplates are damaged and I am missing a repro eq card (the little daughter boards with the trimmers) and it looks like one of my record cards might be bad.
Electronics Module: last but not least an electronics module carcass...a number of parts I need off of this.
Also received the dust cap and retainer for the pinch roller today so I'm closer to that being ready to install.
Spent $60 today for a collection of spare parts...from a sheer poundage standpoint I only need a fraction of the purchase, but there really are a bunch of parts in this collection that are needed. It was well worth the $60, and that might get me a spare little part or two in the future if needed...the seller has quite the collection of vintage parts and gear.
So anyway, the $60 brought home a partially stripped AG-440-2 (B series I believe...) in a custom console, a stripped B electronics module, 2 repro cards and 3 record cards.
Console: nice unit...have no idea what to use this for so its holding up a box for now, but it is custom-built for the 440 transport...seller said it was made in Portland by a broadcast equipment company.
Transport Front: like I said, partially stripped, but basically everything is there except the headblock, power cord and remote dummy plug (has to be inserted in the remote jack in order for the transport to operate in absence of the remote).
Transport back: actually pretty clean here. This transport has a number of tape path parts that will help me out with some damaged items on mine. Plus it offers spare connectors and cabling, the reel idler flywheel (mine is missing the original viscous-damped flywheel...this basic flywheel will do the trick just fine though until I locate an original unit), a spare power supply...blahblahblah. But this is the first time I have been able to get a real good look at the back of the transport. Chunky...the brakes have two solenoids each, and as far as I can tell without being able to really observe operation from this view it looks like one pushes and one pulls...makes for quick and strong action.
Spare Cards: here are the 5 spare cards. Some of my faceplates are damaged and I am missing a repro eq card (the little daughter boards with the trimmers) and it looks like one of my record cards might be bad.
Electronics Module: last but not least an electronics module carcass...a number of parts I need off of this.
Also received the dust cap and retainer for the pinch roller today so I'm closer to that being ready to install.
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technoplayer
Recovering Gear-aholic
Going great guns on the 8 track eh?? i knew this "future project" thing wouldn't stay in storage for long.
$60 is a good buy for the parts you got there. Not too much 440 stuff out for sale in my neck of the woods. Was that a C-List buy??
Thats a Russ Lang floor console. It was pretty common to see the 440 B and C models in those, and I think Ampex was selling them OEM with the machine in the day. I've got several of those, and they are nice sturdy furnture. I may hit you up on a few trinkets for fixing up one of my 440-C 2 tracks if your inclined to sell off a few parts. Also, where did you say you sourced your other parts (Ampec list??) that you referenced previously.
PM me so we don't get the thread off-track.
$60 is a good buy for the parts you got there. Not too much 440 stuff out for sale in my neck of the woods. Was that a C-List buy??
Thats a Russ Lang floor console. It was pretty common to see the 440 B and C models in those, and I think Ampex was selling them OEM with the machine in the day. I've got several of those, and they are nice sturdy furnture. I may hit you up on a few trinkets for fixing up one of my 440-C 2 tracks if your inclined to sell off a few parts. Also, where did you say you sourced your other parts (Ampec list??) that you referenced previously.
PM me so we don't get the thread off-track.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
All the parts (this last batch as well as the headblock and associated parts) were sourced through Ampax List contacts.
And the 440 is STILL a back-burner project, it just appears like its not. I'm not messing with the parts or the deck yet, but the opportunities for these parts are coming to the surface and I figure I'd better jump at them when they're good and pertinent as these parts are not going to get any easier to find.
Thanks for the background on the console...it is indeed really sturdy. Wish I had a use for it but I don't.
I'll PM you as suggested.
And the 440 is STILL a back-burner project, it just appears like its not.
I'm not messing with the parts or the deck yet, but the opportunities for these parts are coming to the surface and I figure I'd better jump at them when they're good and pertinent as these parts are not going to get any easier to find. Thanks for the background on the console...it is indeed really sturdy. Wish I had a use for it but I don't.
I'll PM you as suggested.
technoplayer
Recovering Gear-aholic
I'll shoot a picture or two up of what I am using the Russ Lang consoles for.
Might give you some ideas. Only bitch I have is that they do not dissasseble at all, so they are impractical to ship or move around. You already have experiened that with both the Ampexes you have.
Might give you some ideas. Only bitch I have is that they do not dissasseble at all, so they are impractical to ship or move around. You already have experiened that with both the Ampexes you have.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Huh...!
Yet another victim of the database crash. I didn't realize that I post I put up about the record head repair was gone unitl just recently. Don't recall all of what I said, but basically I took the damaged record head, pulled the stack off of the mounting plate (that was hot-glued), cleaned that up, used some high-strength two-part epoxy to re-adhere that, carefully dressed the edge of the mounting block with a fine file, and then used a hobby knife to carefully push the damaged laminations back into place. Still damaged goods for sure, but it was interesting practice.
Before:
After:
Hm...maybe I never did put up a post on this topic. Couldn't find a pic of the repaired head already uploaded. Oh well...better late than never.
Yet another victim of the database crash. I didn't realize that I post I put up about the record head repair was gone unitl just recently. Don't recall all of what I said, but basically I took the damaged record head, pulled the stack off of the mounting plate (that was hot-glued), cleaned that up, used some high-strength two-part epoxy to re-adhere that, carefully dressed the edge of the mounting block with a fine file, and then used a hobby knife to carefully push the damaged laminations back into place. Still damaged goods for sure, but it was interesting practice.
Before:
After:
Hm...maybe I never did put up a post on this topic. Couldn't find a pic of the repaired head already uploaded. Oh well...better late than never.
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sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Aw shoot!
Well, I can't say I'm surprised at surprises, but it still doesn't help make it feel any better when you gt hit with unpleasant ones.
Looks like both reel motor shafts are bent. Crazy. Didn't notice that before because you can't tell when it is running at full speed and it gets there very quickly. I was trying to check if an empty 1" reel was bent by setting it on the reel table on the 440, and then hitting EDIT to free-spin the reel. Its all over the place. Its pretty bad. So, something happened to this deck which is probably why it turned into a parts deck. I'm too far in at this point to back out and not really interested in doing that anyway. Used to straighten shafts at the machine shop years ago, but this is different, and I don't own a runout gauge (measures wobble). So this will be a new challenge.
Hooked up the electronics tonight too just to power to see if any of them smoke. No smoke, 6 out of 8 VU meter lamps are out.
Oh well...
Well, I can't say I'm surprised at surprises, but it still doesn't help make it feel any better when you gt hit with unpleasant ones.
Looks like both reel motor shafts are bent. Crazy. Didn't notice that before because you can't tell when it is running at full speed and it gets there very quickly. I was trying to check if an empty 1" reel was bent by setting it on the reel table on the 440, and then hitting EDIT to free-spin the reel. Its all over the place. Its pretty bad. So, something happened to this deck which is probably why it turned into a parts deck. I'm too far in at this point to back out and not really interested in doing that anyway. Used to straighten shafts at the machine shop years ago, but this is different, and I don't own a runout gauge (measures wobble). So this will be a new challenge.
Hooked up the electronics tonight too just to power to see if any of them smoke. No smoke, 6 out of 8 VU meter lamps are out.
Oh well...
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
Cory, certainly not to question you but rather throw out the possibility out-there... Is it possible that it's not the shafts which are bent but rather that the reel platters are non-uniform, wobbly?
I mean, many tape decks don't have perfectly uniform platters and I've read some accounts of Ampex machines being especially true in that sense. Have you tried putting tape and an uptake reel on the machine and running it in all modes?
How sure are you that it's in fact the shafts which are bent?
