also on Mixer questions/ opinions

blues-hacker

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quick intro, as this is my first post here, though have been lurking awhile...

have been home-recording awhile, started with a Tascam 414, then went digital (Fostex Dmt-8vl) found I really hate digital distortion, and that analog truly is more forgiving, for what I do, which is record band practices - for review, and in putting together demos... so I try to get a good level setting and then turn to the playing - do I hate it when we cut a good tune and then hear that we went over levels on playback....

anyways, picked up a Teac X-3 about 6 months ago, and am loving it, this is basically the same as the Tascam 22-2, so it's got me back into the anolog world, but 2 tracks isn't enough, so I just hit ebay and have a 38-8 coming soon.

Now I need a decent mixer, strictly for in the home-studio use. Looking at possibles on ebay I'm looking at some of the older stuff - Tascam M30, 308, 320B, 520, 1516, and also some Fostex stuff, M450-8, M450-16.

Can anyone give me thoughts on these, in an application to a Tascam 38-8, where I want to direct mike or line in the bass, guitar, vocals, and put a group of mikes on the drums, and a condensor mike at the back of the room for depth, each on it's own track. I've searched all over, but can't seem to find any tech info on the older stuff.

Thanks for any ifo provided!

B-H
 
I've got an M-30 I'll sell for $50+ shipping. Everything works and it sounds good. I just needed something with more features and channels for my 38-8.

Lemme know.
 
Sennheiser - thanks for the offer on the M-30, though I looked at some of your other posts as you recently aquired your 38-8, and wonder what limitations caused you to want more than the M-30 has ?

I guess right now I'm leaning towards something like the 1516, that I saw you also went to? How do you like it, what are it's significant features?

theres also an older M-320Band an M-520 on ebay that looks interesting, though big. Room I've got, what I want is to be able to set up my 38-8 so I can go to any channel/track at any time, probably group several channels into 1 or 2 tracks for drums, and then go to playback and mix down to stereo without having to do a bunch of patching.

That is suggesting to me that I need at least 16 channels, 8 of them with direct outs, and 8 discreet channels for tape returns, and some limited sub-group/ bussing ability.

B-H
 
I got the M-30 as a package with the 38-8 and the DBX units. I wasn't thrilled about the mixer though everyone at the TASCAM site said how good it is and is perfect for the 38-8.

Well it might be perfect for the 38-8, but it wasn't perfect for me.

I had no manual, and it's use was not very intuitive like many other, newer mixers. The inserts are not TRS, but "access in/out" on two RCA jacks. Signal routing is excellent from what I've heard, but I couldn't really figure out too much.

I really never figured out many of the features of the mixer because of the manual issue. I recorded a couple of piano solo's with it that turned out great, but it just wasn't for me.

I was already shopping for another mixer before the 38-8 package arrived.

The M-1516 is a much nicer mixer. Probably at the top of its class in its day. To me, it beats the new Mackie's all to hell. The 16 pre's are nice sounding and quiet. You have flexible routing, four busses, direct out's, tape returns, three sends, inserts on the first eight channels, eight additional inputs on the "B" side of channels 9-16, three aux sub inputs, three band EQ with sweep mids, and a bunch of other stuff. I love it.

Here is a really great feature of this console. You can buss signals to any of the four busses using the direct out's to the recorder. There are no buss out's on the console and there is also no repatching and a bay is not required unless you have a ton of outboards to include in your rig.

It's clean, quiet and CHEAP! A $1300 mixer for $350. Mine is a '92 model. A little old, but still kicks ass on analog tape. I wonder how much $1300 is in todays dollars?

The downside...the send knobs share pre-and post- duties. Fine adjustment is a bit harder due to the pot travel, but it's not that bad. There are no master out inserts. Can't say I'd use them, but you never know. No solo. No mute. There are work-arounds, but it requires a lot of button pushing. I've done it, it works.
No D-sub outs. They only put this on their larger consoles. I really wish it had this feature. It's not important to most, but I like it.
No alignment tones, again, larger consoles only. That is something I'd like to have too.

You really can't beat this console for an analog eight track rig. It really does everything you need for a good recording and mix.

And you don't need a manual to operate it. Mine came with one, but I only refered to it briefly. I use it occasionally if I'm not sure about something, but the M1516 is much easier to use than an M-30.

Maybe that's why I'm having trouble selling it.

I recently saw one of these go for $475, but most are around the three hundred mark plus or minus. I used the "Buy it Now" option at $350, because i didn't want to risk loosing it through bidding.
 
I did a little digging last night and found a table of consumer price index factors.

You can use these factors for any dollar amount from any year to see what the equivilent dollars would be for any other year.

OK, I was bored last night.

Anyway, the M-1516 which retailed for 1299.99 in '91-'92 comes out to be $1649 in 2002 dollars.
 
Very new person here, and I may be in the wrong place, but I do really need help creating a four track wall of sound. I have been digging around in these "mixer" threads for nought, although the knowledge is impressive. My needs are simple - I have a four track cassette recorder and would like to be able to use a mixer with three or four lines in (preferably microphone input to avoid 1/4 " adapter noise) and one line out so that I can record live instrument/voice/room sounds without having to pile track on track endlessly (I've even recorded on four tracks with lots of dumping and then mixed it down and dumped it again onto one track). Any way of getting something very low noise (and high buss, I guess, something I never considered before) with these specs for under $100?

Thanks for help- including telling me to ask somwhere else - Sjr
 
Let me ask you a couple of questions Spector.

How many inputs do you have on your four-track? Are they XLR or 1/4"? Which model four-track do you have?

Depending upon the answers to the above, you could use a four buss 8 or 16 channel sub-mixer and use the L&R buss outs to dump a stereo signal to two of your four tracks.

I take it from your post that you'd be recording a max of three to four sources at once, correct? If so, you could get by with less than I mentioned above, but it's always nice to have a little extra something you don't need rather than need something you don't have enough of.

With a 16 channel four-buss you could mike up a drum kit, the guitar amp(s), direct bass, piano, and a couple of singers all at once and record it to your four-track in stereo. Or record one buss to each of the four tracks and mixdown later.

Multi-tracking is not generally done this way, and the above would give you more of a live sound and due to your limited tracks it could be a real mess if it's not balanced correctly and EQ'ed and.... But you can sure get a lot of parts on at once with another mixer with no bounces.

I'm not sure about price points if it doesn't start with a "T", and I know you might be able to find a smaller TASCAM four buss for $100 or less. Like I said I have an M-30, but you will really need a manual from TASCAM for it to get the most out of it. It meets your requirements though.
 
blues-hacker said:
Sennheiser - thanks for the great input on the 1516 - that does sound like a very flexible rig, and a good mixer for the 38-8.

I guess I'm still hopin that someone here has some insight on the Tascam M-320/ M-308, and/ or the Fostex 450-8 or-16.
B-H

Try over at TASCAM.com. There are a lot of experienced TASCAM users over there.

You should check out e-bay too. There is usually a couple of 300 and 500 series mixers for sale over there with descriptions.

I've never looked up anything by Fostex, but you might find that there too.
 
Sennheiser:
Thanks for your response. Here are some answers:

How many inputs do you have on your four-track? Are they XLR or 1/4"? Which model four-track do you have? - My mighty Yamaha MT120 has four ¼ inch input jacks. Hence the desire to have a ¼ to ¼ from the mixer to cut out the noisy XLR converter middleman.

I take it from your post that you'd be recording a max of three to four sources at once, correct? If so … - Yes, I agree – but the price is the problem. Baby Spector is due on November 21 (proof positive that astrology is bunk, this is also the birthday of Voltaire, Coleman Hawkins and, uh, Goldie Hawn), and all funding resources in excess of $100 are committed to diaper and jammie budget line items.

Thanks for the advice, attention to detail, and recommendations – very much appreciated.
-Sjr
 
I'm not sure about price points if it doesn't start with a "T", and I know you might be able to find a smaller TASCAM four buss for $100 or less. Like I said I have an M-30, but you will really need a manual from TASCAM for it to get the most out of it. It meets your requirements though. [/B]

I should start cleaning house. Believe it or not, I still have a Fostex 450-16 leaning in the corner with a Tascam 244 behind it.

Jeez. Talk about being a gear slut.
 
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