2 x Tascam TSR 8's synced with Tascam MTS 1000 Midiiser viable setup or not?

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optionalanalog

New member
This is my first post on this forum, I have recently got Tascam TSR 8 1/2" 8 track and today acquired Tascam Mts 1000 Midiiser - my plan is ( if workable ) to get a 2nd TSR 8 and sync the two machines to get 14 tracks - has anyone tried this - do they lock up well enough to make it workable with regard to punch ins etc.? I had initially looked into getting a Tascam MSR 24 or MSR 16 ,but got put off by the lack of parts available for either machine - ( comparatively more parts available for TSR 8- I got a new record / reproduce head from Germany for a reasonable price; € 240 as opposed to ten times the price for last available new old stock MSR 24 head stack). Also TSR 8 has wider track gauge - supposedly enough to be able to record without noise reduction as opposed to having to use noise reduction on MSR 16 / MSR 24 because the narrow track gauges on both of these machines causes more hiss, crosstalk and thinner sound generally , wider track gauge on TSR 8 is supposedly fatter sounding. My reasoning this far, is that if two TSR 8's can sync up in a workable fashion, it would be the safest and best sounding option - and having the second TSR 8 would be some insurance in case one machine went down , at least I would have one working machine with spares from the other etc.
I would also have the option to dump TSR 8 tracks into my Tascam 2488 neo when more tracks are required and the MTS 100 Midiiser should be able to sync with TS 8 with 2488 neo as well for this purpose - although I would like to be able to avoid digital altogether for some projects.
I would be grateful for any thoughts on the above and especially any info on whether two TSR 8's can sync well enough together using the MTS 1000 Midiiser to give a workable 14 track Analogue setup.
 
Sounds cool to me. The Midiizer with twin machines is lots of fun. You can even buy a third tsr8 in the future and another Midiizer or ATS500 to get three of them going for 21 tracks .. and lots of spare parts.
 
Yes, Midiizer and TSR-8 are perfect match... in as much as mechanical sync works. I'm not as gung ho about it as many are, but yes it will work. Personally for me it's a hassle to manage a project on two tapes. I have a TSR-8 and think its the cat's meow, but if I needed more tracks on a budget I would probably go with an MSR-16. Physically thinner tracks don't necessarily sound "Thin". But more hiss and less headroom without dbx, yes. I think the idea is fun from a tinkerer/hobbyist perspective, but practically speaking as a musician/composer first I think it poses a lot of headaches. YMMV I once owned a Midiizer. Nice piece of equipment.
 
optionalanalog said:
I have recently got Tascam TSR 8 1/2" 8 track and today acquired Tascam Mts 1000 Midiiser - my plan is ( if workable ) to get a 2nd TSR 8 and sync the two machines to get 14 tracks - has anyone tried this - do they lock up well enough to make it workable with regard to punch ins etc.?
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I did, though using an ATS500 sync. I won't say the sync was 100% perfect but it definitely worked well enough for me. Songs that were too complex for 8-track were split over two machines and I did this from 2007 until late last year.

I will say though, that it added extra annoyances to mixdown since the synchronizer would occasionally pitch a fit and the machines wouldn't lock until the song had already started, even with a 30 second gap at the start, so I'd have to wind back and try again until it caught properly. I got an MSR24 in the end and it makes mixing a lot easier.
( Old habits die hard FWIW - I track the vocals to one of the TSR-8s and use the synchronizer to copy it to the MSR-24 when I'm happy... saves wear on the 24-track for punch-ins :3 )

Be aware that I'm a useless musician and virtually everything is sequenced except for the vocals, so my use case is not necessarily the same as yours.
What I did not do was run the machines in sync for punch-ins, and professional studios did not do this either since it adds extra wear to the machines and the master. What you do instead, is you lay down your basic tracks on one deck and mix them down - with the machines synchronized !!!! - to, say, track 1 on your second machine.
Then you use that as a guide track to record against and finally, you synchronize them for the mix.

EDIT: PS, if you're in or close to the UK I now have a spare TSR-8 I should probably sell on...
 
I've got one TSR-8 and a MTS-1000. Played with them a little with the PC and learned a couple of things. One of the most memorable was the MTS losing the sync and all of a sudden the transport on the TSR goes hauling balls in FFWD trying to find it! I wouldn't mind trying my hand with two decks and an MTS, but at the moment that would be serious overkill. LOL
 
Thanks for all your replies - got a 2nd TSR 8 ( not in as good condition as first but in working order& may be useful for spares if it comes to it )) now I have to source serial cables ( 15 pin wired correctly ) or have them made up as I am useless at soldering, before I can test out how the machines sync up, and test if the Midiiser works O.K. I will bear in mind that getting MSR 16 would solve potential problems but if the two Tsr 8's can sync in a workable fashion they will sound better and I have to won't use the DBX.
 
A bit off topic, but I love your albums jpmorris. "A Day at the People Factory" gets spun pretty often in my car; I still need to check out your new one. Was your new one done on the MSR-24?

Take care, and keep cranking out the tunes!
-MD
 
themaddog said:
A bit off topic, but I love your albums jpmorris. "A Day at the People Factory" gets spun pretty often in my car; I still need to check out your new one. Was your new one done on the MSR-24?
Click to expand...

No, that one hasn't been released yet. I've booked off a couple of days to try and sort out some loose ends, I'll probably mix it down in Dec/January. I still need to organise a cover picture for it, though.

Thanks, by the way. I have been thinking of redoing some of the earlier songs now that I have better technology, a sort of 'best of' compilation. Picking the songs is going to be difficult, though.
 
I have just tried for the first time , ( only just recieved serial cables which work O.K .for transport control ) to generate time code to record SMPTE stripe to tape following all the steps in the manual (rca - rca cables hooked up - correct settings on Mts1000 & TSR 8's )the MTS 1000 comes up 'generator ready' but no time code is being output as the level meters on both of my Tascam TSR 8's are not reading any level no matter what , both these machines have no problem receiving signal from other sources - any ideas of what I can do - has the internal battery in MTS 1000 got anything to do with Timecode generator - could spent battery affect TC / Gen - is there any way to test if MTS 1000 is outputting Time code.
Please help as the Midiiser is useless to me if it can't generate timecode
 
optionalanalog said:
I...the MTS 1000 comes up 'generator ready' but no time code is being output as the level meters on both of my Tascam TSR 8's are not reading any level no matter what
Click to expand...

A general checklist to do one at a time ....

Be sure the dip switches on the midiizer and back of each tsr8 are set correctly.
y-cord the tc gen out on the midiizer to two rca cords to feed input 8 on each tsr 8
(Or just stripe one tsr8 at a time.. doesn't really matter but a y-cord saves time for striping)
activate track #8 on each tsr8 to show input and record-ready
set midiizer led to show tc gen set for 30ndf
press "enter" on midiizer to show generator ready
(tape decks still stopped)
hit the white "start" key under the midiizer jog wheel
should now see timecode flashing by on the midiizer led display (tape decks still stopped)
should also see the green tsr8 meters for track 8(s) lighting up - means code is making it there too.
Make sure the green levels on the tsr8s are jumping reasonably high so smpte is loud enough.


Click the white stop key on the midiizer to stop code from running.
Midiizer led again now shows 'generator ready".
Put both tsr8s into record (if you're striping with a ycord)
Once tape is moving for about 30 seconds .. or about a minute is better...
then click the white start button on the midiizer to start code running.

leave everything run until the tape runs out on both machines.
stop gen on midiizer
rewind all tape.
be sure you now have output #8 on both tsr8s connected with rca cables over to the midiizer master and slave tc "in" rca connectors.
Run midiizer's setup command to let it control the machines for a few minutes to learn the sync setup for your system.
It's during the setup routine after striping where you'll want to be sure your acc2 cables are good (and connected tight). Those cables are what the midiizer uses from that point on for control.

From there, you're set to start using the machines in sync
 
Thanks for your reply BRDTS - I found out ( Thanks to Tapewolf ) that when the sync button is pressed after Record enable button, as specifically instructed in Tsr 8 Manual - the meter doesn't register any incoming signal, which led me to believe that the MtS 1000 was not outputting any ( Manual makes no mention of this ). I have now successfully recorded stripe and will do full test when other machine arrives back from being serviced.
 
optionalanalog said:
has the internal battery in MTS 1000 got anything to do with Timecode generator - could spent battery affect TC / Gen - is there any way to test if MTS 1000 is outputting Time code.
Please help as the Midiiser is useless to me if it can't generate timecode
Click to expand...

Theres 2 EPROM memory chips in the MTS 1000, I Believe one does the time code & one does the transport, you can check if they are working OK by
following the following instructions

"After the machine is power up, press OTHER, then press UTILITY, then hold down SHIFT and OTHER together and the software version will appear on the screen."

The screen should show both "C" & "M" followed by software versions for each 2.01 / 1.60 ect. if your machine says 0.00 then that EPROM is faulty & has lost
it's program.

I'm waiting to hear from Tascam in California about them sending me a replacement EPROM, UK service is useless & just ignore Emails, hopefully I'l be able to
get replacements from Tascam USA but maybe they won't help me???
 
trancedental said:
Theres 2 EPROM memory chips in the MTS 1000, I Believe one does the time code & one does the transport, you can check if they are working OK by
following the following instructions

"After the machine is power up, press OTHER, then press UTILITY, then hold down SHIFT and OTHER together and the software version will appear on the screen."

The screen should show both "C" & "M" followed by software versions for each 2.01 / 1.60 ect. if your machine says 0.00 then that EPROM is faulty & has lost
it's program.

I'm waiting to hear from Tascam in California about them sending me a replacement EPROM, UK service is useless & just ignore Emails, hopefully I'l be able to
get replacements from Tascam USA but maybe they won't help me???
Click to expand...

Let us know what Tascam says. I've got a MTS-1000 and would like to know the availability when the time eventually comes.
 
jjones1700 said:
Let us know what Tascam says. I've got a MTS-1000 and would like to know the availability when the time eventually comes.
Click to expand...

Tascam US won't deal with me now as I'm overseas, but at least answer their Emails, the UK parts department totally ignores Emails & fails to reply to voicemails at all !!!!!!!!!!
 
Striped MSR 16 & TSR 8 ( 2nd TSR 8 unuseable as has wobbly reel and brake strap keeps slipping off ) Did setup and test according to MTS1000 manual last night with TSR 8 Master MSR 16 Slave all worked fine to my amazement although slow to lock up over 3 minutes . went to use tonight to test recording something on both machines in sync and got as far as set up ( both machines went into play for a short time the n stopped - same as lastnight )when I did sync test by pressing Chase on MTS1000 tonight , however ,slave went into fast forward - I have turned everything off an on again and performed set up several times over but each time the slave goes into fast forward - I thought it was too good to be true when all worked last night . I noticed that the input level when recording stripe in MSR 16 track 16 was -1 db on meter and -7db on playback - worked fine last night . Iam presently re recording stripe on Slave ( MSR 16) -input level can't be increased like on TSR 8. I have performed all the same steps as last night - same connections, same tapes on each machine - I can't understand why it worked fine last night but tonight Slave keeps going into Fast forward - Please help as my whole plan is based on being able to sync the two machines.
 
The sync machine should be able to display the time code for the master, slave or the relative difference between them. What does it display for the slave? Does it jump to some bizarre value when the slave loses it? Does the master timecode change abnormally? Does it help if, when in fast-forward, you press play (or possibly stop, and then 'play' before it starts fast-fowarding again), to force it to read the timecode from the current location? You might need to hold the PLAY button down to convince it.

Does this problem always happen in the same place? Make sure that when you do the setup, you have the tape wound to the beginning of the timecode! My ATS-500 will sometimes do this if it's set up from a later part of the tape.

Also - double-check that the master timecode is going into the master input on the sync unit. Again, it will do bizarre things very much like this if you've got the master and slave inputs swapped over.

Also this happens to me if the sync unit is confused about the slave. On my ATS500, it usually identifies the MSR-24 as 'Parallel' on the first try, and that will cause it to malfunction much like this. Immediately re-running setup will cause it to detect it correctly.

I am a bit concerned about the signal drop on the SMPTE track - have you checked the heads to make sure they're clean? If the tape has shed on the edge tracks and clogged the read, the level may have dropped too far for the reader to cope with.


EDIT: I thought of a few more things since - make sure you re-read it :P
 
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