Old guy needs direction. . .

[gecko zzed]

I just meant that a user-friendly control surface (I can't believe I'm speaking like this) would be a necessity for me in order to use a DAW, along with whatever else would make it less DAW-like

A friend of mine went through three stand-alone recorders. He kept searching for the one that had the least daunting learning curve . . . unsuccessfully . . . and in the end went for a computer-based system. It was not that the stand-alones were intrinsically more difficult to use, but rather that he discovered that the computer-based system was more aligned to how he liked to think about and do things, even though, at an intellectual level, he was seeking, by going for a stand-alone, the electronic equivalent of a tape-based system. They just didn't work for him.

Regarding a control surface as "a necessity" seems like a similar thing; a way of simulating the physicality of a tape-based system and maintaining an element of familiarity. But familiarity is not necessarily a synonym for ease-of-use.

By writing this, I'm not trying to suggest using one method of recording over another, but to highlight that people are wired differently, and what defines 'ease of use' or 'intuitive' can depend more on that wiring, rather than something inherent in the method.

[miroslav]

But familiarity is not necessarily a synonym for ease-of-use.

Yes...so true.

[AtoDeficient]

mouse-mixing

I originally got into learning recording because I had gotten my hand slapped (literally) when I reached toward the eq on a studio's console during mixdown. . The second time I was threatened with eviction from the studio. . .

If he'd had just a mouse, I would still be just a musician.

[trancedental]

DAW without a hardware control system is a major pain to use, when you have to instead rely on a mouse & keyboard short cuts.
Stand alone recorders with faders could be a good idea but often small LSD screens & lack of i/o tracks let them down, the on board FX are weak compared to DAW's .
Analog tape or Digital tape / hard disk recorder with a desk is still the easiest & fastest way to work when tracking & less complicated to set up.

Personally I track to analog Fostex E16 / Tascam TSR8 MTC synced up to Pro Tools for the extra edited tracks, software instruments, mostly keys, Drum Loops ect. This is not that much difference to MIDI tape sync with outboard MIDI keys & Drum machines like I did during the '90's but the MIDI instruments are in the DAW nowadays.

I think using a DAW without a control interface is impossibly slow, I use a Digi002 console with flying faders so it's a bit easier. I won't be upgrading to Pro Tools Version 99 when the Digi002 becomes obsolete because the software is out of date & my Macbook Pro is incompatible.

I would rather save the money for better outboard than paying £300 for the latest software every year. At least outboard is still in use years or even decades afterwards!

It's always best to make full use of what you have already, the OP has good outboard gear so should maybe go for a standalone analog or digital HD recorder instead of getting involved in tedious computer DAW software / hardware upgrades or messing about looking at LCD screens. And save his cash at the same time!

[AtoDeficient]

the OP has good outboard gear. . .

Let's not jump to any conclusions. . . But I agree, my outboard gear hasn't gone out of date- -

I've decided to stick with analog, and find a 16 track. . . I'm waiting for a couple of sellers to reply. . If a cheap HD-24 comes along, I'd probably get it, but I don't know if I'd really like it. . .

I really started thinking lately about tape and its character and fullness and warmth and compression and forgiveness. . . and simplicity, . . and even its smell . . I think if I were to go digital, I would feel like I was guilty of infidelity, so to speak. . .

Did I just say that?

[AtoDeficient]

UPDATE :

For the interested, I thought I'd follow up with how things turned out. . .

I bought an MSR-24 of unknown condition ebay. . The story was the unit worked and was put in storage for a while (years?). . .I took the chance, paid $850, and got probably $50-$100 in snakes included. . . It was shipped UPS a thousand miles in three boxes (the unit, the power supply, and the cables). It was obvious that the power supply's transformer was loose when I took it out of the box. Whether that happened during shipping, IDK. . Anyway, I dropped off the unit and PS for a professional repair, and for just $350 I picked up the unit and PS last week in amazingly clean and excellent condition. . . Unit is 100%, practically new ! Quite happy with my lucky purchase, and grateful for the excellent service. . . Non-tech creative types like myself are quite dependent on smart people. . .

I also picked up a mint Alesis Masterlink (also ebay, $400)

I've got a line on a good Tascam 32, so my studio will now rely on the following:
424MKIII for songwriting, creating, pre-production.
MSR-24
32 for mix-downs.
Masterlink to get it on disc.
Running it all through my Yamaha 32/14. . .Outboard comps and reverbs include dbx, ART, Alesis, Lexicon, Behringer. . For guitars, two Crate amps, Line6 pod pro, Yamaha GEP50. . . A couple of Yamaha keyboards, 5 guitars, 2 basses, 3 drumkits, and the money is pretty much all gone, so that's the story. . . Thanks to all ! ! for the advice and I hope to have something worth listening to in the near future .

[themaddog]

Congrats! I'm sure you'll enjoy it. I've had both and MS-16 and an MSR-16, and although I've never used the MSR-24, based on my experience with similar Tascam machines you'll love it.

-MD

[AtoDeficient]

Thanks ! . . I think best part is the freedom from having to bounce anything. . No more compromises and having to make hard choices like I did with the 38. . . I wouldn't change that though- - The critical listening and the ear-training that you do when you have to combine tracks; making that commitment to the bounce so you can continue tracking. . . getting the right tone WHILE recording. . . All priceless and necessary learning. . . That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger. . .