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Thread: Old guy needs direction. . .

  1. #21
    zorf is offline Dedicated Member
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    well, you did ask for advice in the Analog section....
    But i would just keep doing what you are doing.

    Unless you are working with film or professional scenarios where they need protools files or stems.

    i don't get the impression you need deep editing or plugs.

    Or, as others have said, even 24 tracks.

    If you want to try a DAW, why don't you get one of the cheap or even free versions that are out these days and muck around and see if you like it.

    I have garage band on my laptop and ipad for instance, and there are a bunch of similar things for pc. traction, protools free, etc.

    I had a couple of stand alone all in one digital recorders, but i didn't like the user interface on either. They sounded ok, but not spectacular.
    whatever it is...i'm against it.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtoDeficient View Post
    Your patient advice is greatly appreciated, young man.
    Hi,

    I actually don't have much useful advice to offer - I'm really just replying for the pleasure of being addressed as "young man". But I didn't start getting into the whole computer based DAW thing until I was 60 and I've mostly found it absorbing, interesting, and enjoyable - and not incompatible with still liking all things admirably analog and antique. The comments and advice that Miroslav gave in his posts on how to dip a cautious toe into the digital domain without risking total immersion seemed very good to me.

    Good luck with your choice old fellow...

  3. #23
    AtoDeficient is offline Senior Member
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    Yes, I did ask for any advice...

    I have a need for, really HAD a need for, 24 tracks for quite a while. . I have bounced tracks in excess of what seems like both any manufacturer's recommendations, and modern human understanding. .
    I want to work less hard, therefore my reluctance to go the DAW route. .

    I have the outboard gear, hardware, old-school patchbay, etc, so it seems logical to go to the stand-alone hard-drive route. .

    I will have to look into the other brands of equally discontinued recorders. I guess I have a little more research to do there.

    I appreciate the many opinions on what I originally expected would be a quickly-dropped, misplaced, OT thread. .

  4. #24
    miroslav's Avatar
    miroslav is offline Been Here, Posted That
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lt. Bob View Post
    So if he goes all 'puter then all that rackmount stuff he has becomes mostly useless. No need for it to.
    I never suggested he go "all 'puter"...I said a computer DAW is IMO a substantially better way to go than a standalone hardisk recorder. What I said in the end was that in his case, he might be better off just stying all analog.
    I use a computer DAW...and yet I still track to a tape deck and mix with my analog console and racks of outboard gear. The computer DAW is in-between, and becomes the "playback deck" during mixdown...only thing you need is A/D/A channels to match the number of console channels you wish to use...8...16...24...32...whatever.

    The real point here is that once you stick a standalone digital recorder in the chain...the desire, curiosity, need to do some digital editing/comping will be facing you...and at that point, the frustration of doing that on a standalone digital recorder VS a computer based DAW quickly becomes evident. Trying to work off a 2" x 4" LCD screen on a standalone recorder is pretty tedious....and if you have one that allows connectivity to a computer/large LCD monitor...then you are already well into a computer DAW rig.
    There's a reason why most people (home rec and pro) have gone with a computer based DAW of some kind and the standalone digital recorders have been passed over and can be gotten pretty cheap used now days.
    Their main benefit would be field/mobile recording...but heck, these days, most guys are using laptops, and they just bring a case of rack gear (pres, interfaces, etc).
    The amount of bonus stuff you get using a full-tilt DAW rig VS a standalone makes it worth the short learning curve IMO, and then you can really do as much or as little as you like with your productions...you have ALL the options available.

    Again...I'm not suggesting he go all ITB...I'm just saying that with a standalone digital recorder, he's kinda half in/half out...where a computer DAW gives him much more, and he can still keep/use the analog outboard gear...which would connect in the same manner with a standalone or a DAW...you still need the A/D/A interfaces with either option.

  5. #25
    Lt. Bob's Avatar
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    I got all that ..... and I got it the first time .... you presented your POV very well. I didn't chatacterize anything you said and didn't need a page long disertation obviously talking down to me as if I didn't understand what you were saying. You're NOT smarter than everyone else ..... smart? Yes. Smarter than everyone else? .. no. I did get your point of view just fine in the dim reccesses of my ( apparently according to you) feeble mind.

    Now ..... try to get MY POV. I don't agree ...... I'm doing the very thing you say will be frustrating and I do it for the exact same reason that the OP says he'd like to go that way.
    I feel ZERO frustration ...... I feel ZERO need for any of the crap that goes with all 'Puter and I feel ZERO desire to buy tapes and/or be ALL analog.
    As far as I'm concerned the standalone is the best of all possible worlds .... better than analog because of the maintainance hassles and the cost of tapes.
    And better than going to all digital. Better, to me, than your set-up. Better to me than the Protools set-up that I frequently work with in pro studios.
    I wouldn't trade the rig I have for yours ... period.
    And BTW ..... not because of any digital learning curve. Digital's easy ...... there's no learning curve for anyone that's done it as long as I have ..... it's simple and easy to understand.

    Try to get your mind around the fact that is is possible to have different preferences and that it's not a matter of your way is right and other ways are wrong.

    I've had a home studio for 43 years and have been a professional session man in pro studios for most of that time also.

    I'm NOT saying your way is wrong or without merit. I AM saying I know every bit as much about recording as you do and my way and opinion is just as valid as yours.

    It's really irritating when you talk down to people because you think your opinion is always the best way ............ it is for you ........... not neccessarily for everyone else.
    And people that don't agree with you might have valid points too ..... it's not always because they're just not smart enough to understand your wisdom.
    If you know the secret codes you can get by the mastering boss on level 8.

  6. #26
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    I'll weigh in my 2 cents. I have both a decent DAW and the HD24. Love the editing in the DAW but for laying down basic tracks, the HD24 is WAY better IMHO. It's far more stable than the DAW and a lot more intuitive to operate, especially if you come out of a tape deck state of mind. It does seem redundant to track into the HD24 just to transfer the tracks to a DAW but I do all of that crap when the band has left. It's better for me anyways and the way I have come to work. YMMV.

  7. #27
    miroslav's Avatar
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    Lt. Bob...you have some issues dude.
    If you feel I'm "talking down" to you...that's a perception problem on your end, based on your own view of where you are.
    It's got nothing to do with what I'm posting.
    The details in my posts are mainly for the OP's benefit since he was asking for *advice*.

    If you are going to quote me and make a counter argument (even though I was not talking to you to begin with, I was talking to the OP and to briank)...when I then reply to your post, don't get all little-girl pissy and start tossing out your audio "resume" if I happen to disagree or if I present a different perspective.
    You've been doing that a lot lately.
    You must think I really care about what you do or what you've done, and that just I'm out to "talk you down".
    Well I don't and I'm not...so get over your own ego, you'll feel better.

  8. #28
    miroslav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Track Rat View Post
    It's far more stable than the DAW and a lot more intuitive to operate, especially if you come out of a tape deck state of mind. It does seem redundant to track into the HD24 just to transfer the tracks to a DAW but I do all of that crap when the band has left. It's better for me anyways and the way I have come to work. YMMV.
    And I don't disagree that just hitting RECORD on the standalone is simple and intuituve...but as you stated yourself...in the end, you DO transfer into a DAW, and why?.....probably because it's much easier to work with the audio in the DAW than the HD24.....right?

    That's all I was saying...the real digital work one can do in a DAW pales what you can do in a recorder or to what level or to what flexibility.
    If the OP wants to use an HD24 simply to replace his multi-track tape deck...that's fine. I'm certainly not trying to talk anyone into doing anything they don't want.
    I was just thinking if you are going to "up your game"...then take the extra few steps to realize all the new possibilities, and then use them to whatever level you like....and I think you will agree that a DAW certainly adds a substantial level to your HD24.
    There is no personal agenda here, I use what I use and I honestly don't much care what other people use, it's everyone's choice....but the OP is asking for advice, so I think it's best he hears all the pros/cons and then goes from there.

  9. #29
    AtoDeficient is offline Senior Member
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    [QUOTE=Hakea;3822018]
    I actually don't have much useful advice to offer - I'm really just replying for the pleasure of being addressed as "young man". QUOTE]

    LOL. . I just want to re-group here. . . I think each one of the replies here have had good, relevent, valid points.

    But I'll clarify since I didn't do a good job of stating my needs or goals, and for those who may have missed some of my posts a few pages back- -
    1. I want, need, whatever, more tracks. For drums, percussion, multiple guitars, synths, vocals. Classic rock folks can try to imagine "Hotel California" meets "Jesus Is Just Alright". . I already have an analog board, outboard effects rack, patchbay, etc. (I'd post a pic if I knew how)

    2. I thought that by going digital, I could increase my available tracks, and have a supported product, i.e. Not discontinued. An HD-24 is lower maintenence and a tad bit cheaper than a 2" Studer.

    3. I could have better quality, since bouncing is, well, bouncing.

    4. I understand the limitations of digi-porta-studios not having the I/O options, but they have the track count I need. If Tascam had given the DP-24 direct outs, this thread would never have happened.

    5. I understand all the benefits of a DAW, but I'm quite leery of the technology. I find video monitors distracting when working with audio, although for editing, locate points and the like, would be useful, but for eq, comp, etc, I can't SEE eq, I can only hear it, and these days, not so well either. . . I have tried to mess with the trial versions of CoolEdit, Reason, etc, and I find myself completely lost, hence my USERNAME. . .

    6. You guys are extremely helpful to me, and I value each of your opinions tremendously. To those who have PM'ed me - - Thank you !
    Last edited by AtoDeficient; 02-16-2012 at 12:48.

  10. #30
    Lt. Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miroslav View Post
    Lt. Bob...you have some issues dude.
    If you feel I'm "talking down" to you...that's a perception problem on your end,
    .
    no .... first off ..... that long response was directly to ME and addresses me by name so it wasn't to the OP.
    Second ... you talk down to people frequently.
    I have no issues 'based on where I am'. You don't know squat about me.

    Simply start talking back and forth as equals, both with ideas that have merit, instead of down to me and we'll never have a disagreement again. We may not agree on processes but I'm not looking to have a war with you.
    You're a player, like I am ..... and you love music, like I do ..... and you make your living in the field of music like I do.
    we're pretty similar.
    I've never ever come into one of your gear responses and argued with you that you're wrong.
    I have always shown some respect for your knowledge even if I don't always go the same way as you.

    But when I offer a different way you always talk down to me like you know the truth and I know nothing.
    Sorry, but that will always set me off ....

    I would prefer that, although we have different ideas about things, that we simply go ... "well .... that's interesting ... not how I'd do it but there are lots of ways to do this stuff" and then simply compare notes on what we do and why.
    Not that either of us is gonna change our minds but we can both learn stuff from each other.

    I have learned things from some of your posts .... but you always come back at me like I'm undereducated or I wouldn't take a different path than yours because yours is the most logical and best.
    I think I've gotten to the point where I deserve to not be talked to as if I'm stupid.
    Just don't do that and we won't knock heads again.
    And if you can't see the condescending tone of your posts then I don't know what to tell you.

    Treat other people with the respect you want for yourself .... it's really that easy.
    If you know the secret codes you can get by the mastering boss on level 8.

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