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Thread: Old guy needs direction. . .

  1. #11
    ofajen is offline Daddy-O Daddy-O Baby
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    Do you really need 24 tracks? The more I play and practice and the more I learn about recording, the more I find 8 tape tracks is plenty for most things I do. Changing from analog to digital is not doing yourself any favors if you want to keep a simple process for good recordings. Just my two cents.

    Cheers,

    Otto

  2. #12
    Chilljam is offline transitional phase
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    Quote Originally Posted by ofajen View Post
    Do you really need 24 tracks? The more I play and practice and the more I learn about recording, the more I find 8 tape tracks is plenty for most things I do. Changing from analog to digital is not doing yourself any favors if you want to keep a simple process for good recordings. Just my two cents.

    Cheers,

    Otto
    Or how about 16 tracks? A Roland VS-1680 is going dirt cheap these days, similar sort of thing to the HD-24 and DP-24 just a bit older. You could get one with an external CD Recorder for probably less that $300. I have one and use it occasionally over my tape machines because it is so easy to use and very portable but has a similar recording process to analog machines.

  3. #13
    briank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilljam View Post
    Or how about 16 tracks? A Roland VS-1680 is going dirt cheap these days, similar sort of thing to the HD-24 and DP-24 just a bit older..
    Agreed on the Roland unit being worth considering; however, to be clear here, they're not all the same sort of thing. The DP-24 and VS-1680 are both all in one digital workstations; the HD-24 is a standalone hard disk recorder with basic editing, no mixer/signal processing like the other two have.

  4. #14
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    miroslav is offline Cosmic Cowboy
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    Quote Originally Posted by briank View Post
    The suggestion that people should apply a gazillion plugs and use endless comping and other cheats just because the ability is there makes me cringe and speaks volumes about some of the well-deserved cynicism becoming more common toward modern digital music production, and with the current crop of affordable pro mastering engineers it's not like you "need" or should particularly want self mastering plugs either unless you're doing amateur super small-run no-budget projects and just need the overall vol up to commercial levels.
    I hardly use any plugs. I track to tape and mix OTB (from the DAW) and use all outboard gear.
    Thing is, I have a lot of outboard gear, and I prefer mixing in analog, so it works for me. However, with just a standalone digital recorder and analog mixer, the OP is not going to have much else to use for FX and processing...which is why I suggest going the DAW route, and yes, there are a gazillion plugs at your disposal...
    ...but I never said you need to always use a gazillion plugs on everything.
    I know the standalone digital recorders have some editing/processing capbilites...but that's a PITA way to work in digital compared to a computer DAW and nice LCD monitors.

    AFA the comment about "cheats"....ahhhh, it's called "music production"...
    We are not talking about recording a full-tilt band who comes in to just lay down some tracks in a given amount of time...rather we are talking about a solo musician, home-rec setup, where recording/writing/creating all takes on a simultaneous process in many cases...and in the world of a solo musician recording in a home studio...edting, comping and all those so-called "cheats" make life a lot easier.

    Recording is not about making some deep moral decisions...it's about getting a good finished product.
    The reality is that all the pros use those tools, so no need to be a crusader and do things the hard way, unless that somehow makes you feel better.
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about faking/cheating stuff...I'm just talking about using audio tools that make certain tedious processes much easier and quicker. That's why I go with the hybrid setup...the DAW is there mainly to edit/comp tracks...and you know, they use to also do that quite a lot back when tape was king, they just used a razor blade and/or bounced tracks from machine to machine...so yeah, that kind of "cheating" has been going on from the earliest days of recording.

    Heck....if the OP doesn't want to use a DAW because of the computer/learning curve...then my advice for the OP would be not to even bother with the digital standalone recorder...just stay all analog, and stick with tape if you want to keep it simple.
    Avoid the A/D/A conversions with *NO* real benefit of using the digital format.
    IMO...if you are going to record digital, then at least have the BIG benefit of digital which is the editing/comping and the gazillion plugs that are much cheaper (many are free) than the cost of outfitting a decent amount of outboard rack gear.
    I guess other than not wanting to keep buying tape...I don't see the need to stick one, standalone digital recorder in an otherwise all-analog setup...without the use/benefit of any other digital devices/processes...why do that?


    I think maybe a lot will have to do with the OP's longterm goals and what level of recording he is after. If it means making some changes and learning some new things to get there...then that's what has to happen.

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    No computers here ... I might be one of only a few around here who really don't use computers for recording at all.

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  7. #17
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    Yeah, I was just going to say what lonewhitefly said, but he beat me to it by a few minutes. Keep on doing what you were doing and look at digital as a final step in conversion. I have all kinds of digital goodies in my studio DAW, but it mostly just sits there doing nothing because I don't need more than 8 tracks of analog for what I do these days and I have a room full of outboard gear. If you need more tracks get a Tascam MSR-16 and you can still use 1/2" tape that you've been using with the 38.

    People are falling all over themselves trying to learn what you already know how to do and trying to get the gear you already have. No reason to feel you should move into the digital realm, except for the end medium... CD, mp3, etc. Spend your money on a good analog mastering reel-to-reel (If you don't have one) and a stand-alone CD recorder like the HHB CDR-850 or the Fostex CR-300.

    Speaking of which... I can't believe this CD recorder sat for 7 days at $150.00 with no takers and is now relisted. These go for twice that and are worth more than that. I have no connection to this seller, but it looks like a great buy. I would snatch it up, but I already have one.

    Fostex CR 300 CD Recorder! | eBay
    "If you canít make a hit record with a Tascam or a Fostex,
    then youíre not going to able to do it with a Studer or Otari!"
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilljam View Post
    Or how about 16 tracks? A Roland VS-1680 is going dirt cheap these days, similar sort of thing to the HD-24 and DP-24 just a bit older. You could get one with an external CD Recorder for probably less that $300. I have one and use it occasionally over my tape machines because it is so easy to use and very portable but has a similar recording process to analog machines.
    no ....a VS 1680 is way different than a HD 24. The HD 24 is gonna hook up like any 24 track reel to reel with 24 outs on the machine.
    A 1680 is gonna have limited outs and thus limited ways to patch outboard gear to it.

    They're very different IMO.
    If you know the secret codes you can get by the mastering boss on level 8.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by miroslav View Post
    I I don't see the need to stick one, standalone digital recorder in an otherwise all-analog setup...[i]without the use/benefit of any other digital devices/processes ... why do that?


    .
    he already said why do that and I already said the same reasons that I choose to do that. You essentially have most of the benifits of an analog rig without having to spend the money on tapes which are expensive and getting harder to come by.

    I have tons of outboard gear ...... you have to get some pretty big interfaces to be able to hook all of it up with the ease that I can with my rig.
    So if he goes all 'puter then all that rackmount stuff he has becomes mostly useless. No need for it to.

    I have zero interest in going to plug ins ...... with a standalone I can use all the reast of my analog rig exactly like I always have but I don't have to buy tape.
    The best of both worlds.
    If you know the secret codes you can get by the mastering boss on level 8.

  10. #20
    Chilljam is offline transitional phase
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lt. Bob View Post
    no ....a VS 1680 is way different than a HD 24. The HD 24 is gonna hook up like any 24 track reel to reel with 24 outs on the machine.
    A 1680 is gonna have limited outs and thus limited ways to patch outboard gear to it.

    They're very different IMO.
    Yep correct, I meant just the DP-24

    But really they are all just 1's and 0's

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