Fostex G-16S Bad Caps?

[clongo]

I just pulled my G-16S out of the box it's sat in for the last 20 years and plugged it in. First thing I noticed is the track 3 meter pegs after turning it on and stays there, and a couple of the other track meters are lit, bouncing up and down. Does this sound like the caps need to be replaced on the boards?

Also, FF and RW both seem to work, but there is a noticeable squeak when in Play. Possible corrosion from sitting for so many years in the garage? Unit has hardly any miles on it and I am looking to sell it, but I feel I need to get it in working condition first. I loved this machine, great sound, and I have the sync card too.

Thanks for your help!

[miroslav]

....the box it's sat in for the last 20 years...

Possible corrosion from sitting for so many years in the garage?

Unit has hardly any miles on it....

Good luck......you may find that getting it into working condition will be more trouble than what you will be able to sell it for. G-16 decks in good operating/cosmetic condition are barely going to $400-$600 on eBay these days.


I have a G-16C....it's 23 years old, but still plays like when new....but I've used it throughout the years (though not hard), and kept it in a good climate controlled environment. I've only recently put it in semi-retirement mode since I started using my Otari 2", but I'll be powering up the G-16 occasionally and running some tape just to keep it "loose".

Yeah, caps can dry out from lack of use....switches/relays and moving parts will start to stick and get stiff...and a garage ...
....well, that's a sure recipe for rust and corrosion.
Clean it up, get some deoxit and clean all the connections, not just audio, but everything...which means pulling out the cards, the remote connections..etc...etc...leave it powered for awhile....then run some tape to see if loosens up and if the audio issues are cleared up.

[clongo]

Thanks Miroslav. I was planning on selling it for $400 if it was in working condition, but not sure what I'll do if I can't fix it. I had it sitting in the original box, Styrofoam corners, and plastic bag so it was fairly protected, but yeah, the garage was not the best place for it.

I'll try your recommendations and see if it helps. Maybe just spray the whole thing down with WD-40! :-)

[WarmJetGuitar]

What tapes are you using? If it's your old Ampex 456 or 499 from back then it's probably just sticky shed syndrome. I once passed on a Fostex E16 because of similar (but worse) symptoms only to find out later that the machine was fine and the only reason it didn't work was because of shitty tape.

Sorry if I'm captain obvious on this one, you might already use RMGI or some tape like BASF or AGFA that rarely suffers from this problem.

[jpmorris]

What tapes are you using? If it's your old Ampex 456 or 499 from back then it's probably just sticky shed syndrome.

Ugh, I meant to say that myself. Sticky shed will often result in a squeaking noise, so that could be the source of your mechanical issues. However, it looks like there is an electronics problem as well.
You might try reseating the channel cards in case there's some weird oxidisation problem with the contacts.

[WarmJetGuitar]

Sticky shed can go horribly wrong. The closest I've ever gotten to serious repair work was changing the motor in a Tascam 38, had the thing working for half an hour with Ampex 456 tape. Then it started slowing down. I thought "well, nevermind. It's been inactive for a few years, just need to get it going and she'll be fine". Suddenly it didn't go anywhere and the motor gone quiet. When I opened the motor solder iron fell out due to excessive overheating. I'm 90% sure this wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for my ignorance towards what I've read about SSS.

Now I call the repair guy anytime a problem occurs that isn't caused by me being stoned

[clongo]

I did put on an old 456 reel just to see if the belts worked. The squeal sounds like it's coming from the inside of the unit, not the reel itself, and only during playback.

On a related note, I'm assuming the old tape is useless at this point since it's also 20 years old. Just throw it out? I've got 20 reels of the stuff. I guess I could resell the reels themselves on eBay as they look like they go for a pretty penny.

[WarmJetGuitar]

As a rule of thumb Ampex 456 is useless yeah, though there are guys who knows how to find the few batches that don't have the problem. Most Quantegy 456 should be fine though. We need to wait for Beck to anwer this one - or you might find the right info on the "SSS help thread". Funnily enough the thread is sticky.

Get some RMGI, great sound. Also BASF SM911 would be fine for this machine, and even SM900 sounds great - a bit off but in a pleasant way to my ears.

BTW it's a lovely machine, get some proper tapes and you might love the thing and record on it? The prices on those things is waaaay to low compared to the nice sound and fun you get during tracking. I love the sound of our G16, prefer it without NR but that's probably just me.

EDIT: If you want to save your old recordings you can bake your 456.

[clongo]

Yeah WarmJetGuitar I loved that machine. When I first got it back in the early 90s I had it sync'd to Cubase on an Atari ST, doing automated punches that wow'd the clients. And yes the sound is great! So smooth, warm and silky. I do have to sell it though and it's killing me to sell it so cheap, but I have to move on..IMG_8213_.jpgIMG_8210_.jpg

A pic of the machine and the heads..

[miroslav]

squeal sounds like it's coming from the inside of the unit, not the reel itself, and only during playback.

There are no belts in the Fostex G machines.
The motors and rollers are all moving during FF/RW...so the only other mechanical piece that would move specific to Playback is the Pinch Roller.
Can you get your ear close to the deck during Play, and see if you can pinpoint where it's coming from.
It could be tape squeal, but it could also be the shaft that the Pinch Roller sits on.


From the pictures....the deck looks pretty clean, so start with a complete deoxit/cleaning...and then see where you are.
Careful around the idler and tach rollers...and all the rollers for that matter when you remove them....there are very thin washers that you may not notice until they end up on the floor. They will stick to the ends and are hard to see.
Also, there are bearings inside the rollers, so just go step by step, and put everything back in reverse order.
Don't oil/lube up the rollers too much....maybe just use a Q-tip and put a light film of silicone on the metal parts that move internally (don't get it on the outside)...and watch out the the left roller (the one with the rubber)...there are small senors in there and a strobe disk attached to the back of the roller. Don't let the silicone touch it, as it can easily remove the printed strobe pattern, and then you'll be fucked.

If you plan on getting into the front of the deck...you have to remove a lot of the Allen screws but first the cover piece that goes over the transport. Take off the head cover....then all the rollers....then the cover plate...then the bigger cover plate that goes up over the reel motors.

Keep close attention to what you are taking off so you can put it back in reverse.

The cards will come out below, so you can first deal with the mechanical overhaul...then go down to the cards. With them, I would just pop them out and clean the contacts with some DeOxit, then pop them back in.

You probably don't need to pull any of the main system boards which are accessed from the back. Just clean all your connections in they back.

When I first got it back in the early 90s I had it sync'd to Cubase on an Atari ST...

You're taking a page out of my life.
I ran my G-16C which I got in 1990, together with my Atari ST and Steinberg's original Cubase sequencer.
Had them locked, with Cubase having full control of the G-16 thanks to the proprietary drivers they had written just for the G-16.
I actually did a whole article that was published in the Cubase newsletter, describing the process and how to do it...I think I was probably the first guy to marry the G-16 with the Atari and Cubase.
I still have the Atari...which I was in service until maybe a few years ago, where I changed my studio SOP around, so I wasn't really needing a separate sequencer, since I had moved over to a full-tilt DAW several years earleir...but I was still firing up the Atari when I wanted to just do a quick sequence, as I found it much easier on the Atari than doing MIDI in my DAW.

Now I just use the MIDI sequencer in my DAW, but I still miss those Atari/Cubase days...I could work so fast with that setup. I also had 32 channels of MIDI Mute/Volume automation using that rig along with 4 Niche modules (also gotten from Steinberg)...and I had them hooked up to my TASCAM 3500. I stopped using the Niche automation about the same time I started using the full-tilt DAW, as I could get all my levels done in the DAW, then just mix out through my TASCAM console (which I still have/use to this day).

If you run into any obstacle with the overhaul...post up your problems, I might be able to help, since I've had my G-16 apart a couple of times for cleaning and stuff.
Do you have the schematics with exploded view diagrams? They can be helpful when your are disassembling and reassembling.