Audio Black List Coming Soon

B

Beck

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Audio Black List Coming Soon

A little project I’ve been working on about to be launched.

The site will primarily feature eBay sellers listing overpriced gear, tape, bad tape, pirated software, and/or high shipping costs. The eBay feedback system is broken. This project is born out of a need to give potential buyers the real scoop.

Flowerpot guy is at the top of the list of course. I’ve been in contact with several music recording and audiophile oriented sites that are getting on board. Look for the link on a music forum near you by end of summer, starting with HR. For now I’ll be reviewing submissions, and they’ll have to be pretty far out there to make the black list. For example:

One Maxell XLI 35-90B 1/4" $75.00
Seller ID: fun2offeru
Maxell XLI 35 90B 1 4" New Original Tape SEALED for ReVox Akai | eBay

Two Maxell UD 35-90 1/4" $99.00
Seller ID: mrs_girlock
2 Maxell UD 35 90 Reel to Reel Tapes 1 New SEALED 1 Used | eBay

One New TDK SA90 Cassette Tape $41.99
Seller ID: cool_stuff_san_diego
TDK SA 90 Chrome Blank Cassette Tape High Bias New | eBay

Five SEALED quantegy grand master gold 499 1/4" X 7" Reel $249.99
Seller ID: recordcollector64
5 SEALED Quantegy Grand Master Gold 499 Never Used Reel to Reel Audio Tape | eBay

Two Quantegy 456 Grand Master 1/4" X 7" Reel $169.00
Seller ID: stevekom2
Quantegy 456 Grand Master 1/4" Reel to Reel Tape - 2 Reels In New Sealed Boxes

One Quantegy 456 1/4" X 7" Reel $99.00
Seller ID: eurasiagh
Quantegy 456 1 4" NIB Reel to Reel Tape | eBay

eBay’s policy of allowing free listings without limits has made it rough on buyers. Sellers have been pushing the limits because they can, but it’s been pushing prices ever higher over the years since new sellers use current prices on eBay as reference. We have to stop this insanity. Sellers will also be contacted and informed they have been put on the Audio Black List and the reasons why. In the mean time feel free to contact sellers with these ridiculously high prices and let them know (in a nice way) why you won't buy from them. The more feedback they get through the contact seller form the better.

Beck
 
Good idea...
Hopefully this will stop people selling stuff on online classified ads from saying things like...
"Well..... they go for this much on ebay"....
Down with flowerpot dude!
 
Audio Black List Coming Soon

The site will primarily feature eBay sellers listing overpriced gear, tape, bad tape, pirated software, and/or high shipping costs.


I know what you mean.

Just the other day I saw a listing for a mid/late '70s vintage Hagstrom Swede "Patch 2000" guitar...starting bid - $5,000, BIN $8,000. :facepalm:
Took me about 5 minutes to stop laughing, and then a sent a message to the seller telling him that while I wished him luck at getting his price, the reality was that "Patch" Swedes were worth less on the used/vintage market than the standard vintage Swedes, which go from $800-$1200 if in good condition and what the market is doing at that time.

The "Patch 2000" was Hagstrom's attempt at pre-MIDI guitar synth, that they worked on with Ampeg. It was a "dog" at the time, since it was only monophonic, and therefore not interesting to most players, so it only saw a 3 year run and they made less then 500 of them.

The seller was banking on the fact that it was in mint condition (which it appeared to be) and he stated only 173 were made, therefore making it that much more soughtafter...but that wasn't/isn't true.
Being a longtime Hagstrom Swede users and owner of a wall-full of Hagstrom vintage and reissue Swedes, as some folks here know...and someone who always follows the Hagstrom sales on eBay, I know the seller will never see anything close to his starting price.
Of course, he never replied to my message and left the listing as is....so now there are a few people "watching", and the seller probably thinks he's got interested buyers.... :D ... but it's most likely people just wanting to see if how it will play out and if anyone will be foolish enough, which I doubt.

I think some sellers are just plain uninformed or have silly expectations about the value of some things like this, so they ignore reality and plod on....and will keep re-listing the same thing for the same price, over and over...which can be a good chuckle, as no one ever buys the item. :)
Of course, there are those sellers who know very well that they are overpricing their item or out-and-out lying in their listings, and deserve to be kicked off of eBay....or at least put on "ignore" by all buyers.....I hope your "black list" does that to them. :thumbs up":

One thing Beck.....how comfortable do you feel about any potential repercussions coming back at you?
I mean....some of those sellers will not like being "black listed" and may present legal challenges to your "black listing" etc....???
Have you considered that?

Use to be a time when you could see the eBay ID's of bidders...and you could even contact bidders and warn them. Of course, eBay figured out that this was not good for their bottom line, since they depend on sales, and the higher the prices the better for eBay, so while they do provide "buyer protection", eBay depends on listings and sellers more than buyers.
It would be nice if a message could be sent to eBay and have them step up and reel some of these crazy sellers in a bit....but they will never do that. Sure, if you can show that a seller is violating some of the eBay rules, they'll kill the listing, but they make no effort on their own to confirm sellers descriptions or values posted. They figure the buyers will drive that where it should go.

Anyway, I hope your list works out well, and I will be happy to provide info for it when I see BS on eBay, as I do tend to spend an AWFUL amount of time window shopping for audio gear on eBay! :p
 
The only things I see listed for high prices, and they usually have multiple bidders bidding
Insane amounts for are those reel type cassettes. They are cool looking and I would like to have a few myself,but.... over $100 for just one! And these are the actual amounts people are paying for them. I have seen this many times. It would be nice to come across box of ten of the tapes brand new. I would list each one with a starting bid of $50 and they would all probably sell pretty quick for a higher amount.....
Oh wait.... then that would put me on the blacklist!
 
Thanks for all the input so far. And yes I've got all the legal ducks in a row. eBay sellers collectivity make up a business and they're subject to reviews and ratings like any other business... so we're good there. Sellers are openly offering items at ridiculously high prices, so we in turn can publicly call them on it. Sellers will all get a friendly informational note before they are put on a list. I'll be using several eBay user ID's of course and not my main one.

The biggest threat to analog recording at this time is sellers trying to give their items collector status. Anyone can see that NOS tapes are still so plentiful they won't be collectors times for another 50 years if that. It's time to push back my analog friends and bring these sellers back down to reality. I pledge not to buy so much as a guitar pick from the worst offenders.

At any rate, we have to do something, and the word needs to get out that we don't have to live like refugees, begging, borrowing and stealing just to keep our hobbies, business, going.

When the site is finished I'll also have a exhaustive tape guide with pics and all so people will have the best chance of getting the right tape at the right price. ;)
 
At some point, hopefully by fall, I'll have it setup so you can search by seller name to see if they've been naughty or nice. :)
 
.... sellers trying to give their items collector status.

Oh yeah.....that is one of the biggest jokes lately on eBay! :laughings:
Especially the ones that obviously have NO CLUE about what they are selling and how much it's worth, other than the fact it's "old"....so right away they pitch it as "vintage" aka "collector desireable".....just like that yo-yo asking $8,000 for the Hagstrom Patch guitar because he thinks it was a "limited" production oddity (therefore high value collectible). :D

Hagstrom Patch 2000 Electric Guitar 1977 79 | eBay
 
Hello Beck

Thank you for having the guts to expose the insanity on Ebay. The only problem, (as you know), as the expression goes: 'The Masses are the Asses'. Why anyone would place a bid on an item that was obviously inflated, or deal with someone with deplorable feedback only FUELS the stupidity and the rip offs.

I'm a 66 year old 15 year Ebayer, with impeccable feedback. I've sold mint condition guitars, amps, equipment, and more. When I describe an item, I'm honest and answer questions immediately.

I also noticed and was pleased to see another post here regarding the lack of respect for proper packaging of items sold on Ebay.

Ebay is a far cry from what it was 15 years ago. I also attribute part of the reason to people who are clueless and willingly pay for items that are poorly described or outright misrepresented.

'Like New' to me means an item with little or no blemishes, PERIOD.

I'm shocked at the amount of crap that's listed with blunt purposeful vagueness, and the careless condition in which things are packaged.

Nevertheless, people appear to just 'accept' the unaccountability.

Thank you again for your efforts. Let's hope people will actually recognize the problem and do something about it.

Mike
 
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Yeh great idea ...

It should help, but the real problem is the people paying these prices!

I remember a few years ago, I put a used CD for sale on eBay ... selling for $12 new on Amazon, so I put the bid at $8. For some reason, the bidding went to $15.50 ... I mean, this is a minor example, but I was baffled! I've seen lots of things like this happen over the years.
 
I dunno Man .... they buy something for $12 then try to sell it on for say: $125? Fair play to 'em I say! No one's been killed. They're just trying to make a buck & get by.

[PS: I am COMPLETELY joking by the way - "OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!"]
 
I actually saw some a**hole selling a "rare" Windows XP CD. You know, the one with the hologram. And what the hell is "rare" anyway? Tascam DX-4D? Fostex 3040? and more than 25 years old, means what???? Give me a break.
 
I dunno Man .... they buy something for $12 then try to sell it on for say: $125? Fair play to 'em I say! No one's been killed. They're just trying to make a buck & get by.

[PS: I am COMPLETELY joking by the way - "OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!"]

But just to play devil's advocate for a moment....

Putting aside the sellers who lie about an item, or who sell stolen merchandise...I'm not sure if putting a high price on an item would warrant any real action, other than to point out to a seller that it's overpriced for what the market normally brings for that item.
I mean...if someone asks for $300 for a single cassette tape, and someone is willing to pay for it....who is at fault?

Like I said, if the seller asks for a high price because he claims it's some one-of-a-kind, rare, collector's grade cassette tape....and it's obvious that it's just a basic old cassette....then yeah, I can see slamming the seller for lying.
Otherwise, how can anyone dictate what a "fair price" is for an item, if both seller and buyer agree on a price, no matter how crazy that price.....????

Just the other day, some wealthy Asian art collector paid like $36 million for a single tea cup.
OK, it was from the Ming dynasty (I think)....so certainly rare and valuable...but $36 million???
Some would say it was only worth $10 million....some might say $20 million....etc.
Who is right?

Just trying to look at all the angles here.....
 
I agree with Miro's point. A free market system allows for "what ever the market will bear" type pricing and if someone is willing to pay a higher price for an item, then they are free to do so. Venders who consistently rip people off will eventually be rendered harmless by other venders who offer the same goods at lower prices. But with free markets also comes free speech and there too, if someone like Beck wishes to flag consistent price gougers, then he is also free to be the town crier on those venders and we're all free to heed his warnings or ignore them.

Cheers! :)
 
I agree with Miro's point. A free market system allows for "what ever the market will bear" type pricing and if someone is willing to pay a higher price for an item, then they are free to do so. Venders who consistently rip people off will eventually be rendered harmless by other venders who offer the same goods at lower prices. But with free markets also comes free speech and there too, if someone like Beck wishes to flag consistent price gougers, then he is also free to be the town crier on those venders and we're all free to heed his warnings or ignore them.
Cheers! :)

Precisely!

eBay, Amazon, etc defy conventional supply and demand. To put it as simply as possible, it’s all about perceptions… lies and damn lies. There is nothing right now out there to counter the misconceptions that have found legs on eBay. So that’s what I’m doing. We can either be victims, ultimately losing the ability to afford expendables like tape, or we can expose the bastards who are trying to make people think they better hurry up and buy this stuff before they can’t get it anymore. And when it comes to bad tape and pirated software, which is also rampant on eBay, well there’s no question those sellers are breaking the law and more often than not sending you a nice bit of malware along with your too-good-to-be-true “Find.”

Certain sellers are laughing all the way to the bank. I’m going to see to it that it stops and that their conduct does not happen in a vacuum. We’re watching, and if they want to be trusted and have a good name they better get with the fucking program and stop picking people’s pockets. eBay is way out of control, and we have to bring it back into reality, or it's not going to be there at all.

My site will be educational for the most part and once people start catching on they’ll have the knowledge to make informed purchases rather than panic buying. I don’t like those kind of tactics in used car salesmen and I don’t like them in eBay sellers. They’re all cut from the same cloth, and I’m going to put my experience to good use and shut them down. It will take a little time, but it will get done.
 
Its a great idea, but in the UK it would be a non-starter. Sadly, litigation here can gag this kind of really useful idea. For example, if an individual or a business are taken to court, the public records reveal the names of the individuals, their addresses and other details. This is perfectly legal stuff for people to download. However, publish these details, even though true and accurate, on a web site and it's very different. Legal advice provided to websites, like this one, would be to remove the detail or risk being taken to court - the reason being that the information is detrimental to the person or business, and they could then take action for loss of revenue - and few people will take the risk. A complaint to the server owner or hosting company also gets the 'offending' pages removed. Wwe usually view the states as the place for legal clever stuff like this, but no - the threat of action is enough to scare people!

Here, it is just too risky to speak the truth because the publisher is the one responsible.
 
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