Analog vs digital recording?

swcook0430

New member
I'm trying to start my own home recording project and I'm wondering what is a better investment, something analog like a 4 track or an audio interface? Anyone have a strong preference? Does analog equipment have any strong drawbacks? This is mostly for recording folk/indie rock. I'm leaning towards analog equipment because I don't currently have access to a good computer to record on.
 
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That's a tough call.

I'm happily straddling both analog and digital, tape deck and DAW, and wouldn't completely prefer one over the other as I think the hybrid approach plays best to the strengths of both, and allows the most elimination of weaknesses in both....but that's just my opinion.

One thing....a tape deck also needs a mixer, and then outboard FX/Processing gear (EQ, compressors, reverbs, etc)....so it's going to take some money, maybe more than a computer.
There is also tape, and a good deal of maintenance required, not to mention possible calibration and alignment requirements.

Of course, with the computer you also need an interface with preamp(s) or if you have preamps, just a straight converter to get the audio in/out of the computer. The FX/Processing can be done with plug-ins, so not as costly as individual outboard gear.
You can also record digitally to a standalone hard-disk recorder....but they tend not to be as easy to edit with and add FX/processing as you could with a computer DAW setup.
 
As Miro said there is a LOT more to analog recording than a single 4 track recorder. In addition to all that was mentioned, you will still need an interface to get your mix down into the computer to print a CD. Or if you stay analog, yet another tape machine to master on.

I have a fairly even view of both I like to think. I have a full analog studio, a hybrid one and an all digital one. Each has its time and place IMHO.

What is your experience level? Do you know how to do your own repairs and maintenance? If not, analog can be a frustrating money pit.
 
I'll defend digital standalones, cassette based portastudios and reel to reels to the hilt. But I think a computer and audio interface are your best bet.
I'll never defend four track recorders. Unless it's for only two or three elements.
And finally......
as you are leaning towards analog
why not go the whole hog ?


You can even use that in a song. I prefer to go uncredited for that. In fact, I deny it was me. Keep the royalties.........
 
I'm really old & really old fashioned.
I'm not interested in analog but love analogue.
 
If a 4-track would be enough to do what you need to do, you could take the money you would spend on it and buy an interface for the computer you are using now and be better off. You might not have the best computer, but it is probably better than the ones we were using 15 years ago.

Your sound will only be as good as the weakest link on the chain. If you are on any sort of budget, you will end up buying the cheapest garbage in an analog setup, just because of the sheer amount of pieces you need to string together to get stuff done.

By the time you get the recorder, mixer, tape, outboard effects, compressors, etc... you could have gone out and bought a computer and software. The computer will not have the track and processing limitations that an analog system has.
 
Digital will have a lot lower cost to get good quality than analog. It also depends on what kind of music or sound you're going for.

It also depends on how much editing you want to do. Analog editing consists of literally pulling out a razor blade and splicing tape. When you're doing multitrack, it further complicates things. . . You also run into the problem that tape isn't as easy to find as it used to be. It'll degrade the more you record onto it. etc.. etc..

I would recommend you start with digital and work analog into your setup as a supplement if you want that sound. Analog is cool, but you'll have to sink a bit of money into it for it to benefit you more than a decent DAW software on a relatively decent computer.
 
You know I hear what everyone is saying, but I don't think analog is necessarily more expensive that digital.

It depends what exactly you're comparing with what.

For instance, a 4-track cassette portastudio can be had from Ebay for between $30-150 depending on condition and luck. With a 4-track, a 10 track (one bounce only) recording can be made with excellent 'tape sounding' medium. It won't sound glassy like a cheap analogue to digital convertor might. It shouldn't sound hissy if Dolby is used. It will sound different but that may be a plus depending on the music you're doing. The big plus I think, is that you stop being distracted by your eyes and start to listen once more to the music.

Al
 
If you want a lot of power and flexibility very cheaply, a computer DAW has a lot going for it.
But don't be fooled into thinking it's a panacea, because that's stupid. That something designed as a 1980s wordprocessor can be used for audio recording is the result of 30 years worth of bodges, and this frequently shows.

A new machine

First, you will really want to buy a separate machine and use that exclusively for audio, ideally not attaching it to your home network either. Modern operating systems tend to run all kinds of background tasks instead of capturing the audio. Windows could never do it reliably IME, Linux has recently started getting dropouts and underruns as well. OSX I can't speak for.

Whichever the case, using your day-to-day machine as the DAW will mean that it's fighting for resources with whatever other software has been installed, since everything loves to have its own update daemons or other gubbins running in the background, and that's assuming nothing abnormal happens like some kind of malware. So you want to set aside a machine that has the bare minimum needed for the DAW software to run and hope windows doesn't want to phone home in the middle of a take.

Most of the above problems can be alleviated to some degree by getting someone to build and set up the machine for you. There are companies like Carillon audio who specialise in this. But it will not be cheap, and there is footage out there of pro artists like Spock's Beard and Blancmange having the DAW die on them in the middle of recording session, or in Blancmange's case, during their Liverpool 2011 gig.

Nothing lasts forever

Then you have the dilemma of whether you keep the machine up to date as they put the stake through XP's heart to try and stop it getting back out of its coffin and new hardware and software stops running on Windows 7 so that people are forced to migrate to 8 or 9.

It might also interest you to know that Microsoft recently described the applications running the entire audio and video production industries as 'legacy' because their goal is to kill off the workstation market so they can make tablets instead. That way, everything has to be bought and sold through their app store where they can get a 33% cut from each purchase (and the new security model for 'non-legacy' apps makes interprocess communication impossible, so no plugins. Ever.)

I have a fine collection of hardware and software that Windows no longer supports, so you'll have to choose whether you want to stay in a timewarp and hope that nothing dies that can't be replaced. For example, disk interfaces have evolved from MFM -> RLL -> IDE -> SATA, and SATA too shall pass away. Each upgrade is incompatible with the last, so if you do stick with a Known Good configuration and never upgrade, you will have to hit ebay for spare parts, just like a tape deck.
The alternative is to try and keep up with the bleeding edge, and constantly having to fork out for upgrades as the hardware and software evolves.

The Mac is even worse for this because while Microsoft usually tend to have some form of compatibility layer - though they have been changing their minds about that lately - Apple make no bones whatsoever about breaking things. At best, this means you have to buy a new version of the DAW package/plugin/whatever. Unless of course, the vendor has gone out of business, in which case, it sucks to be you.

While I've never used OSX for audio, I have seen this happen over and over again with other things, e.g. when OSX Tiger dropped support for Photoshop 7, upgrading to a version that worked was nearly as much as the Mac itself, something I could not afford to do at the time. I write software myself, and have essentially given up on the mac as a dev platform because it's such a constantly moving target.

Now, with OSX, you do get the GarageBand DAW software with it. That has the strong advantage that Apple are maintaining it themselves, so it will be upgraded as a freebie with the OS update bundle so you won't need to buy it again every 12 months.

However, Apple have a habit of discarding or replace bundled software with something new and shiny, which maybe worse, and is most likely incompatible with your existing projects. In other words, you probably won't be able to go back and remix the album in 5-10 years time because it will be gone or replaced with something incompatible. Apple left a lot of big names high and dry with the Final Cut Pro fiasco, and I dropped iMovie like a brick for much the same reason.

Oh, yes. And the industry is moving towards a ransomware^W rental model, like Photoshop where you have to keep paying every month to keep using it. Kind of like tape costs, except you don't get anything to show for it.

The audio interface

Then we have another piece of the puzzle, the audio interface. You can get these cheaply, but of course they will be made very cheaply. The converter chip will be the cheapest they could find, the drivers will have been cobbled together from the reference implementation by interns and the capacitors will not be audio-grade, increasing the amount of noise. What I have seen happen over and over again is that the coupling caps die after a couple of months so you end up with a digital ground loop and the RF noise from the computer or harmonics from the USB bus get sprayed all over the audio signal. (Hello, Edirol!)

Again, this is a problem that can be fixed by throwing money at it - better converters, ideally with capacitors from an established brand.

Backups

Next up: Backups. Your hard disk will die at some point unless you're really lucky. SSDs crash in a similar manner, large chunks of data turn to slush and the drive fails to be recognised in the morning.
You can't prevent that, but you can mitigate the damage, by getting external USB disks - at least two - and regularly copying all the important stuff onto the external disks, say, every month. If possible, keep one of them off-site and swap them over every month or week or whatever your backup schedule is.

If possible, try to dump stuff from finished albums onto a collection of other media, DVD, Blu-ray, tape or whatever (the more the better!) - since the data can rot on the original disk, or one of the bits can flip in the disk controller or memory. Unless you're using something really special like ZFS, BTRFS or ReFS, the computer won't know that the data has been damaged and will happily copy the broken data over the good backups.

Standalone DAW

All this presupposes that you're recording on a computer DAW (except for the backups thing, which you should do anyway, regardless of what system you're using).

A standalone DAW will alleviate the problem of dropout and Windows going 'I saw a squirrel!' when it should be recording your divinely inspired guitar solo, since they will run an OS like QNX or VXworks that is actually intended for realtime use (think life-support machines, engine controllers etc) rather than the bloaty one-size-fits-all system software we use on general purpose computers.

However, the editing side of a standalone DAW is usually shit unless it cost about as much as a 24-track tape deck. One approach is to do all the tracking onto a standalone DAW, and then, when it's finished, pull the tracks into a computer DAW for editing and mixing. With that you can get away with using your normal desktop/laptop for the editing since it won't have the additional overhead of having to be able to capture audio reliably.

And analogue?

Unless you're using something small and simple like a cassette multitrack, I won't pretend that analogue is less complicated than digital. But I have had more than my fair share of problems with digital as well. In my experience they require similar amounts of work to keep going, you're just replacing one set of problems with different ones.

And yes, cost-wise, analogue has the additional expenses of the media if you wish to maintain a library of it. You can do the hybrid approach, where you track everything to tape, digitize it and then edit it in the DAW. After that you could then wipe the tape and reuse it for the next session.

The key thing is that with most digital systems, you're getting something that's been hacked into working with a certain amount of latency and jitter. With analogue systems, you're getting something that was designed from day one to do audio and nothing else.

Personally, I started out doing everything digitally (because I had a computer already), but switched to analogue as my needs increased. I think a lot of it was a romantic desire to be able to experience to some degree the process which went into making great albums of the past.

I could probably get better results with digital, because each time I flub a note on the bass or the vocals I could go back in and edit it into its proper place or chop in the same note from elsewhere in the song or another take or something. But I kind of like being forced to do it right in the first place (or at least with overdubs) - I find these limitations help me creatively.

That said, I do cheat rather a lot in that I'm composing the songs on a sequencer first and tracking that to tape instrument by instrument - if I was playing every single instrument by hand it would probably be a lot more painful.

The take home message

The more that things change, the more they stay the same.

Analogue: Cheap or Expensive, often temperamental, requires regular maintenance, may require a lot of ongoing expense on media
Computer: Cheap or Expensive, often temperamental, requires regular maintenance, may require a lot of ongoing expense on software

...you pays your money and you takes your choice. Either way you go, you will have problems, because at the end of the day, technology is hard.
 
I've dabbled in both.

I don't know what single item or setup I'd get if I were just starting fresh out of the box right now.

Something about having a modern, capable audio I/F on an up-to-date desktop or laptop PC seems attractive. To date, I've not done that, as I find computer recording a bit too fiddly with the components and controls. I prefer a more hands on approach. However, this doesn't preclude me from trying puter recording in earnest at some future time, as yet TBD.

I have reel/reel recorders & medium format mixers (Tascam for the most part), and I enjoy working with these setups a lot, but acquiring reel media may be a little challenging in the long term for the Newbie. Lifetime legacy tapeheads more often have stockpiled ample amounts of media from when it was more affordable. Decent stocks are still available on eBay, but try to be as sure as you can about what you're bidding on, or maybe risk wasting your money.

I have cassette Portastudios, both 4 and 8 track versions, (+ rackmount Syncasets) and generally I'm quite pleased with them. The more vintage, larger and topline models have pretty high capabilities, production-wise. The smaller & more stripped ones are more often like scratchpad recorders. They each have their niche. Cassette media is a bit more readily available currently, but faces the same issue of long term availability of tape. I generally like working in cassette, but reel/reel will always blow away or raise the bar on sound quality vs. cassette. However, as a Long Time User of this gear, I believe I'm capable of getting as optimal sound quality out of the cassette format as Possible. I'm a Tascam/dbx fan & believer.

There are middle-ground analog 1/4" 8-track reel recorders. Fostex had several standalone units and Tascam had the 388. You're getting a medium boost in sound quality and track count over cassette Portas in an affordable tape category. Same can be said of any narrow-format recorder such as 1/2" 16-track and 1" 24-track. More economical versions than pro analog versions.

I have digital Portastudios and porta-format clones (Fostex). They all have their strong points, but moreover I think the similarly sized digital porta's have more limitations than their analog counterparts. That means usually limiting to 2-simul recording on most midsized units & on later models an input-to-track assignment architecture literally devoid of any input mixing capabilities. However, more vintage units like the Yamaha MD8 (minidisc) or Fostex FD8/Tascam 788 (hard disc) porta's have a more vintage style highly capable mixer as front end. Something along the lines of Tascam DP-02 or Pocketstudio recorders have input-to-track & I feel is a downgrade vs. vintage units. Vintage digital Porta's will not have USB, but perhaps SCSI drive interfaces (FD8, Tascam 788),... which we all know will be problematic from the start caus USB is really the way you want to go in the 21st century. Digital Porta's are more fiddly than their analog counterparts, but they have most of the bells & whistles digital comes along with that analog can't touch. With all that being said, I'm much in favor of digital Portas if you're talking about a Tascam 2488Neo, DP24 or DP32, which give you a generous palate in a tabletop unit. However, when they eliminated MTC-Slave,... that's a serious downgrade IMO.

I've not been as current with recording as I'd have liked over the last 5 years. I've done most of my noodling around and serious productions over the last 10 years on cassette, usually 4-track. I've done a lot of reel recording from time to time. Always better production as you go up the food chain of analog. Most currently I've been recording practice sessions live-to-4 on 7" reel tape (Tascam 34/M30 mixer) and that's fun and affordable with excellent sound quality.

There are too many issues to consider to have a straight answer. It depends on your needs, expectations, how you'd like to work & budget. What some people would like might seem awful to others. Either way you go, there's a fair investment to do it right, whether analog or digital.

:spank::eek:;)
 
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I don't think the ease and speed computers give me makes my music any better. I can do it quicker now, and with far less pain, but some of the old analogue stuff still holds up in quality.

However - I don't buy analogue kit now - there's no point.

If you look on ebay - something like Allen & Heath mixers that were thousands are going for a few hundred. They're 'worth' far more than that in quality terms, but nobody wants them. You could pick up something really nice and maybe a recorder like an HD24 or similar for stupid money now. It's not just recording, it's live sound too - if you want to be a person working in a niche, then go for it. It's just that the speed of change is ramping up and up so quickly, that by the time you have installed your latest purchase onto your computer, the first thing you have to do is download the latest update! I hate computers, but I can't go back to analogue. My big collection of outboard and keyboards are now pretty well obsolete, because they're now replaced by computer based sounds.

I've been working today on some re-working of old cubase projects, and the old files from 2009 load up and I have to spend ages converting the old outboard synth sounds to the newer internal ones. There are always a few sounds I can't get, and have to bring in as an audio file - but it's rare to use the Roland, Korg and Yamaha kit that I've still got wired in, and turned on.

Digit are easier and more flexible - they're not really better. Should I sell the Roland 1080s and the other stuff? No point, it's worth pennies now.
 
Analog by far. The only thing that has changed since I joined this forum is that home digital has gotten worse, sounds worse by far. My Tascam 246 4-track on cassette sounds better than ever. There's a learning curve for whatever you choose. Nothing's change for me. If you want to blow people away with something that sounds different than all the cheap toy crap out there then go analog. I'm taking about home recording here. If you want to talk pro recording it's pretty much the same story but everything, analog or digital costs more. Ignore the whining about how difficult and time consuming analog is. You have to ask yourself what you want to achieve. How much time do you have to commit to making good music. If you don't have enough time to wait for a reel to rewind or to learn how to overdub and punch-in then you don't have enough of what it take to strive for excellence in recording in the first place. Do something else! Racquetball? Golf? I don't know... just pick one.

Digital will have a lot lower cost to get good quality than analog.

My experience over the last three decades has been completely opposite.
 
Either way you go, a good performance of a good song will transcend the recording medium. Only recording engineers worry about such things, music consumers, for the most part, do not.
 
My $.02 worth.. I started late to the recording game, and when I did it was Digital to start, But as I get older I think Hybrid is the way to go, My kid's band put together a simple Hybrid setup for recording their demo's and jam sessions.(instead of asking the old man to use the studio)
Black Face ADAT(ebay $100)
EDAC Cable for the adat $35(EBAY)
Mackie VLZ 4 buss 16 channel($250 CL)
And local Pawn shop for a DELL OptiPlex running Xp ($55)
RME Digi96 Card(EBAY $100)
6 TDK SVHS tapes (Amazon $25)
Tascam CD-RW750 (EBAY $125)
Reaper for their DAW and they actually paid the $69
ALESIS Monitors (Guitar center$25)
Microboards 4 Disc duplicator (EBAY $150)
so for about $1000 they have themselves a Hybrid setup that can do 4 tracks, and if they use the aux sends on the VLZ board they can get to 8,when their happy with the mix they burn a CD to the CD-RW,
they are selling their home recorded CD to their "fans" for 4 bucks a pop, and have made back about $100 bucks.
It can be done and it can sound good for a reasonable price.
 
My $.02 worth.. I started late to the recording game, and when I did it was Digital to start, But as I get older I think Hybrid is the way to go, My kid's band put together a simple Hybrid setup for recording their demo's and jam sessions.(instead of asking the old man to use the studio)
Black Face ADAT(ebay $100)
EDAC Cable for the adat $35(EBAY)
Mackie VLZ 4 buss 16 channel($250 CL)
And local Pawn shop for a DELL OptiPlex running Xp ($55)
RME Digi96 Card(EBAY $100)
6 TDK SVHS tapes (Amazon $25)
Tascam CD-RW750 (EBAY $125)
Reaper for their DAW and they actually paid the $69
ALESIS Monitors (Guitar center$25)
Microboards 4 Disc duplicator (EBAY $150)
so for about $1000 they have themselves a Hybrid setup that can do 4 tracks, and if they use the aux sends on the VLZ board they can get to 8,when their happy with the mix they burn a CD to the CD-RW,
they are selling their home recorded CD to their "fans" for 4 bucks a pop, and have made back about $100 bucks.
It can be done and it can sound good for a reasonable price.

That's not hybrid. That's all digital. :)

ADAT = Alesis Digital Audio Tape

You may be mixing or summing outside of the computer (which is another popular topic), but it's still digital media.
 
I would recommend analogue to anyone. My first recording setup was just a Zoom MRS-4. I got it when it first came out and used it for years. When I started making some money I decided that I needed to upgrade to an eight track setup. I really wanted to get an analogue setup because I loved the idea of them, the sounds of those that I'd heard and the simplicity of them. I kept putting myself off going analogue with things such as tape cost, maintenance etc. but eventually I just bit the bullet and bought a Fostex R8 and Fostex 812 mixer. I was immediately very happy with it. Although it had way more connections and controls than a digital portastudio, I found it much easier to use since it worked in a way I could easily follow rather than having some proprietary set of menus. After a couple of years I upgraded to a Tascam MS16 which I am still using.

I wouldn't think about changing to digital. I love the sound of analogue, I love the ease of use, I love the workflow and I love the fact that I don't have any computer screens in my studio!

So, if you can afford tape, have room for the equipment and don't mind messing around occasionally to fix things then don't hesitate in getting an analogue setup.
 
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